00:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's Circle Back, episode 3. Right here on the Circles Off YouTube channel. I'm Rob Pizzola, joined by Jason Cooper, jeff Feinberg, jacob Grimania back in the producer's chair this week. We've got a lot to get to this week. A reminder we're using your suggestions on this show as well. Use hashtag CircleBackOnX if you want us to incorporate a tweet into this show. We'll look it over. We'll react to it. I don't know if this is bad form, but we're going to start with one of my tweets today. It's probably bad form, but guess what? It's my show. We can do whatever we want here. 

00:51
I'm listening to the Favourites last week, which is a podcast as part of the Action Network, chad Millman, Simon Hunter. I fully disclose I do not like Simon Hunter. I never have. I think he's a fake sharp. I've reacted to one of his videos before right here on this Circles Off YouTube channel, which you can check out, but I catch this clip during the favorites of Simon talking about market manipulation in the NFL market. It's a load of bullshit, is basically what it is. He really has no idea what he's talking about. So I am just irrationally upset listening to this because I'm a pro batter myself and I don't like when other people misrepresent themselves as having knowledge that they don't have in the space. I think it's extremely dangerous. 

01:36
I tweet about it. I tag chad, I post the clip from simon hunter and he immediately, you know, sees this. People are tagging him, by the way, I couldn't tag him because I'm blocked by simon, so just people looking. I was looking for his, his handle, but he responds. He says I'm one of the biggest know-it-all losers in the industry. I never break the top 200 sports podcast because no one wants to listen to. Uh. He calls me, uh, a name that we're going to blur out here for youtube purposes, but not flattering, lives in a basement apartment up in Canada. My whole personality is to tell you there's no value on the Superbowl. Listen, first and foremost, before we talk about this. You guys from the outside looking in, do I have like, am I out of line here? Do you say, like Rob, you got to tone it down with this stuff? Like, what's your actual honest feelings on that be? 

02:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
level with me. I mean, okay, objectively you don't like simon, yes, so there are times where it's like, oh man, like I know rob's and you're not the only one rob's like cooking up, like the hate watch here, like the takes are coming, that's fine, but I've known you. What I feel like is almost 15 years now. Uh, I know you're a pro better. I know how you not all your secrets, but a lot of things, um, and I know you to be honest and reliable and trustworthy. So to me you are a fair representation of what a pro better is. 

03:04
And then I see a lot of like weird try hard moments from Simon because he's maybe representing action or thinks his platform's big. He has to make himself feel like something he isn't. But to answer your question, like yeah, you've got it out for Simon, but I wouldn't want Rob to have it out for me, especially if you're a phony. Like because I've worked with Rob, I've worked in news pits with Rob, I've worked in content with Rob. Like if he you know he could be doing investigative journalism if he wanted and he'd be cracking the case. So if Rob's got it out for you and thinks you're a, phony. 

03:50 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
There is not a. Unless you sort of answer some of the claims, there's not a fun way out for you, I think. I think what you're doing is is fair, because it's not like. Simon is like a small account, a thousand followers only, has like a couple hundred like listens across all his like he is. They are one of, if not the biggest square sports betting podcast in the space and a lot of people listen to them. So they have the platform where they're misrepresenting themselves. And Jeff has a great golden rule he doesn't like to punch down. And you're not doing that here. You're punching up. You may have more followers than him, which probably pisses him the fuck off, but you are still punching up because his reach is still very wide. It's still a punch. 

04:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh they have a platform. The platform. It's not almost about followers. I mean, yes, when you're doing having the argument on twitter x, it can be favorable to you because you have more followers, but his platforms are exponentially bigger than yours. So it is not. No, it is, I don't. I still consider it a fair and balanced punch up, and that's kind of my rule. You don't want to. You do want to punch up. I um, I mean, I don't want to sort of break down the content of it. You do a really good job. I almost just want to take issue with the insult himself. Like he is just checking generic boxes and that's what bothers me. This is like if I went to the store and bought the how to make an like, write a comeback for dummies, it would take two of the key elements of this one the blurred out word and the mom's basement. Like that just means you've got no fastball, you've got no creative, you can't take a joke, you can't tell a joke. Now, don't get me wrong. 

05:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
You are not joking, so I it's fair for him to respond, but clearly he cannot deliver a joke here my problem sorry, my problem with this is you're dissecting him as a better right, whereas he's coming at you for stuff that he obviously knows is not true. 

05:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's a tell in itself. 

05:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I don't believe he thinks you're a P word, which is the word that's hidden here for anybody listening and not looking with us, and I don't think he actually believes you live in a basement. 

06:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So once you deviate away from the actual conversation and the argument against a guy, you kind of put yourself in a losing position, like you're trying to make things up here's the problem for Simon in this instance Is like it's not a one-off, like if that's a one-off and you just met Simon at the bar, I mean he'd say something like that's very weird, very weird and it's you know, even when you see people who run like the most sports book sports book in all the world seem to comment in your defense, that should leave people sort of in the middle, um, knowing who is right and who is wrong here. 

06:37
But you, your beat your issues with simon like you have a hundred puzzle pieces like the breadcrumbs from like the other episodes that they all just stack on, stack on stack. So in the moment they can be the most like innocuous claims that, as someone listening to the show just wants the picks. But you know you are there. You're like those guys on the internet who watch every second of Fox news to sort of uh, you know you are there. You're like those guys on the internet who watch every second of Fox News to sort of, you know, just relay like the crazy things. 

07:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It really does bother me and it's like this perpetual cycle of it bothers me so much that I have to listen to every episode. I can't explain it. You have to build your database, you do. Here's a few things that bother me. So Simon deleted this tweet, by the way, about 10 minutes after it was posted, for obvious reasons. I mean, listen, I'm not going to sue the guy for like libel or something like that, but you know I'm not, I'm not going. Well, maybe I will, you know, and then we'll, we'll we'll need the money to turn it into some sort of stuff or something like that. 

07:42
But you know, if someone comes after me which happens all the time, by the way, on Twitter for a take that I have, I then try to defend the take is what my immediate response is Like. If I'm calling you out for a bad take, in this case talking about market manipulation, he should come out and defend that take rather than taking a personal shot. 

08:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's what I'm saying. That's the point I was trying to make you know. 

08:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So that's the thing. Now. A lot of people don't understand, or may not understand why this stuff bothers me so much and I've been pretty open about this before. But we have a new audience here on Circle Back. There's a lot of you watching for the first time. Make sure you're subscribed here on the Circles Off channel if you are. 

08:21
But I had responsible gaming issues when I was younger. I spent from the years 16 to 25 of my life losing money on sports betting. I consumed tons of content in the space where, candidly, if the favorites was happening when I was young, I would watch every week and I would think that Simon is an expert in the space because of the way that he portrays himself, and that really upsets me. It just it eats away at me to a point where I cannot not speak on that situation. I actually do think Simon makes his living from betting. 

08:59
From the sounds of things, I think he's a runner for other groups. It seems like he's close to atlantic city. He goes in bets on other people's behalf. People are sending him in for sending him bets which he's then relaying as his own personal bets and he's trying to like fill in the gaps that he doesn't his knowledge base doesn't have and it's extremely up. Just be honest with the like. Joey knish is a runner. He's very open about that. We've done an episode on Circles Off about him jamming kiosks. How did like? He doesn't lie to people. He's very open with what his knowledge is in the space and where the knowledge gaps are. 

09:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And to me that's like the most important part of content creation. Well, now it's almost like he's got to keep up with the lies. He's told his father-in-law yeah, like you've met this girl, she's great. The first time you met the parents, you told a lie. But what you did about how much money you made, about how good you are. In this case, chad can play the role of the father-in-law, yeah. So now it's time they want to get married, they want to move, they or they get a new house and like, well, based on the job he told the father-in-law he has, he should be able to do it. But now he needs some of the father-in-law's money. I'm not saying that Simon needs Chad's money. I'm saying he's just got to keep up with the lie and I think the only person now he's probably afraid of telling the truth to might be Chad. 

10:18
Chad like clearly started action. He's a bright guy. I've had uh, my bit, you know, I I yelled at him. I was an old man yelling out of cloud for years for his like rovellian hire, because that didn't make sense. So some of like his main associates well, there's a lot of great people at action. There have been some other ones, but I um, like that happens, I want to defend in one weird way simon uh, go for it no no, fair, fair, fair. 

10:43
In a sense I don't know if you call it a defense, but I believe I long time running. Now I've been doing a golf podcast with my boy, pat Mayo, mayo Media Network. We were kind of doing it before. There were other golf betting podcasts where we talk about football. The same way people who love golf, the same way people love football, talk about football caught on. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

11:11
Nonetheless, I've gotten a lot. I'm no expert, I'm no sharp. I'm pretty transparent about that. That being said, just because of the platform and male media isn't nearly as big as action I get a lot of dms. Yeah, I get a lot of dms from from caddies, from people with access, from people with information. Sometimes you try to scope it out. People try literally they're just a fan. In the same way, people are probably fan assignment and they're just trying to give him some information. So I am not doubting that he is overloaded with information from a some sharp people and some people may be pretending to be sharp, but I'm not doubting that people like hit him up to try to give him, oh, 100 I would like. 

11:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I do believe that he's connected to some people who are betting big amounts of of money on football and he's moving those bets like I'm listen, I'm. This is pure speculation. I'm trying to read between the lines, but I've listened to many of the episodes of this show and that seems to me like the minus 500. Favorite is this guy is a runner. He takes a percentage of each bet that he puts through and he earns off of that. No problem with that. Listen, like this is the ecosystem, yeah, just, but just be up front about it. 

12:15 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That's my my big issue, my the funniest thing that I just I just found out now that you revealed to us a couple minutes ago is that you listen to the favorites to feel nostalgic, which is very interesting, but then also if the tweet itself. There's a couple things that bother me with it. Number one like you expect, simon expects us to believe that he models all these things out, but he can't come up with a good enough response other than calling someone a p-word grow up. Number two I had to literally six hours plus at a desk doing our Super Bowl prop show on Forward Progress and this guy's saying that we think there's no value in this world. We did a six hour prop show on the fucking Super Bowl man. Like I had to work through that. What the fuck? No, but Pizzola. 

12:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I remember the first time I was like holy shit, Rob is his degenerate days and the starting point of his I'm gonna get more methodical, figure this out modeling days. And it was the I want to say, sam bradford, tim tebow, national championship game. And I'm working with rob that day and I'm like rob, what are you on tonight? What are you like? He goes, I got nothing. And I'm like what do you mean? You got nothing. It's the national championship. You're going to watch it. It's like Tim T, like this is such a great game I don't like anything. And that's when you're like holy shit, he is not just I don't know what, even this week's Thursday Nighter is, it's a TV game I'll be a little bit recreational of a sucker, I don't know, it's still a fun game. 

13:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's bit recreational of a sucker regard. Yeah, the last thing I'll say we'll move on to the next topic here is I also get one of the accusations I get is trying to use somebody else's platform to build myself up, and I just want to say listen, whether you believe me or not, that couldn't be any further from the truth. Like, like. I am not going after people with hundreds of thousands of followers and trying to attack them to grow my visibility. Obviously, we run a content network. I like my Twitter account to be as large as possible, but the immediate thought in my head when I heard that clip was not like, I'm going to post this so that I can grow my following. It's like people need to see that this is bullshit. That was the immediate thought, but we'll move on here. Court Sports zero. Courtney. Was this the Ben the Better? Ben the Better the only fan? 

14:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
The 10K challenge. The 10K challenge with Ben the Better. 

14:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You're telling me people are betting on Bub Means. I'm sorry, vele, tonight 1-800-GAMBLER challenge You're telling me people are betting on Bob Means and Vailey tonight 1-800-GAMBLER. This was Thursday Night Football last week, so Jeff wants the background story here. No, I want the OnlyFans background story. She gives picks on OnlyFans. 

14:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, that's all. 

14:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You can't just drop OnlyFans, no she went head-to-head in a competition on gambling Twitter with Ben the Better before and lost, and then didn't pay the amount that she lost. She, like, completely reneged on the deal. 

15:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Maybe she like paid it off in nudes. 

15:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I don't want to speculate. It was a 10K wager. It was a 10K wager Also. 

15:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ben the Better is not a trustworthy source of information, so nobody really knows what happened anywhere For sure. Great point, jacob. Great for bringing that up. So this happens a lot, where the 1-800-GAMBLER, by the way, responsible gaming number, call that if you're in the US and you have any issues with responsible gaming. 

15:36
But people view uncertainty in the market as, especially when they're um, let's just say, not as nuanced in sports betting, as, like you will have to be a degenerate to be betting this game. You, you need to be a degenerate in order to bet this, because there's no possible way anyone that's not a degenerate would bet on this stuff. And this kind of stuff drives me up the wall. Like you, look at the line movement in that game on player props on the spread, denver went from like a short favorite. They closed minus three in the game, significant movement. Like there are edges to be had in all games, but especially the games where there's guys like bub beans and devon vele getting significant time. Like I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that. Yeah, no, it's it's. I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that yeah, no, it's. 

16:28 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's just crazy to me because it's also. This is the assertion of like I guess court is just thinking that she can only bet overs on these guys and that's what she's talking about here. But there are. There is like on a lot of websites you can bet what's called an under. So if there's a listed total, you can bet below it if you feel like they're not going to do that. Well, if you feel like they're nobodies. But again, there's so much like variance. Like cedric wilson scored a touchdown. If you were able to see that, maybe wilson was going to be the guy getting all the targets. I think he was like fourth or fifth on the board uh, for all the saints guys. So it's like that would have been a great, great bet to place. And like I would never want to bet on cedric wil, but in a game like this, when they have their two top receivers out, that's the game you do it. 

17:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean this is a firstly, there's no bigger like spread here between how Courtney thinks and how, like, the true sharp gambler thinks. Because that Thursday night game to your point, rob, any person who even like dabbles as a pro bettor I I know, pro whatever, pretends to be a pro better or is a pro better knew that that game represented levels of variance which meant not only should you be playing those guys, but you should have been playing alt lines on those guys at even the bigger numbers, and this is almost like fantasy bros culture. 

17:42
Yeah, we where, like these guys aren't in the fantasy league, therefore we don't bet on them, right? Maybe? Like we only bet on guys who like that sort of element of play or anything under that. You're grasping at straws. These sorts of games are the sorts of times where I feel like, um, even being a hardcore fanboy can do you wonders, like having a true instinct of where that injury lies. Who's next man up? You know all sorts of things. Just, I remember last week we were talking, the Chargers had an injury at running back. Gus Edwards and you mentioned to me Darius Davis carries this guy and I'm like that's just genius Like that is a genius. 

18:22
Don't let it get to you. It goes already too high Like right and I'm like that's just genius. 

18:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like that is Don't call him a genius, Don't let it get to his head. He goes already too high. 

18:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like right away, it's like you see how easy that game script goes, right to that guy getting two freaking carries. Yeah, so this is just the biggest cross between, like people who bet for a living and casual is this sort of tweet? 

18:46 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Well, I would say it's also like. I know you're trying to stay here, jeff, but I'm gonna somewhat disagree with you here, because this is the perfect opportunity for casual bettors for, like, those guys who are deep, they can't see it. No, but what, what? It's like you're deep into fantasy and then you can see it. That's where the opportunity arises, like for me personally. Like I knew about devon veal because I saw in week one he had, like Bailey I'm going to pronounce everyone's name wrong. You know him, but you can't pronounce his name. 

19:07
Exactly. I don't need to pronounce his name to bet on him right, it's true 100%. 

19:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know how many names I've butchered in my lifetime, exactly. 

19:12 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
He got eight targets coming out the gate. Week one got hurt, was out for the next four weeks and then I saw him. 

19:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm like so it's like this is a derivative of the tweet that bothers me the most every year and it comes out in March, usually around MLB spring training, where some beat reporter for a team or some national baseball writer puts out some sort of tweet about how you're a degenerate if you bred on spring training baseball. It happens in NBA preseason, nhl preseason. These are uncertainty can work in your favor. When the books don't know and other people in the market are also taking guesses. That's an advantage to you. You get MLB spring training games where you have a full major league lineup, give or take a few players against an A-ball lineup, and you can bet that as like a pick-em, because the book opened it at a price. It moves to like minus 250. There's insane moves on these games. 

20:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
People struggle to understand that uncertainty and things like this. It's not degenerative to bet on some of this Uncertainty breeds variance, variance breeds opportunity, but it's just not. That formula doesn't work for people who just think, oh, you're betting on a guy. I mean, maybe I've never heard of these guys, but if they're going to be getting big touches, I don't even need to know anything about these players. I just know they're next up in the lineup. 

20:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Even knowing Ball a little. You saw what happened during that Saints-Bucks game. This Bob Means was now involved, ritters is now at quarterback. But just take some educated guesses and also the variance and the uncertainty creates a marketplace in the sportsbooks where they don't as you mentioned, rob, they don't know where to set the Like. You get a game Chiefs 49ers. There's going to be no question about where the line is. There's going to be consistency in the marketplace that allows you to play multiple sides of the same guy. 

21:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yep, agreed, we'll move on to the next one here. Turn in the pot. This was sent to me on DMs and it's not really a tweet, but I didn't know this was happening. Uh, right angle spot sports. Uh, adam churnoff, who is like the lead public figure for them? Uh, getting involved in the tiktok space? 

21:34 - Adam Chernoff (Announcement)
now we'll take brian pocket four says bro, you're full of shit. You want to tell me that your advice made vegas change their odds? Takes millions of dollars to move a line, at least one point. It's exactly what we are saying, because it's the truth. At Right Angle Sports, we've been winning for more than 20 years. When you win that long, and you do so at the professional level, your advice comes with respect, and that respect turns into influence and changes the odds. We show this multiple times per day through the Right Angle Sports service. I see what they're doing here. 

22:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You, you can stop it here, jacob. Okay. So turn off is very big on over the years. My biggest criticism of turnoff would be like he changes his mind really quickly on ideas. He goes from doing one thing to in like two months later trying something else out. So they're going to do tiktok now, which youtube has like deprioritized shorts. Right now. A lot of people are doing tiktok and instagram content at this point. Um, it's challenging because you can get a lot of these commenters right now who are like the sports betting tiktok guys who think they know everything about sports betting. I could see this being like a real uphill battle, but maybe this is like a good way to generate. Listen, this is a promo. This is a promo for Right Angle Sports, but it's done in a way where he's kind of actually explaining how things happen in the marketplace. I just don't know. 

22:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I'll give him credit. He didn't lose his cool. He was composed Like obviously comments like this would frustrate him. I'm sure he's used to seeing stuff like this, but he was composed and just explained it and explained right angle sports, but also like as much as right angle sports is respected and whatnot, like they're not respected in the TikTok community. 

23:16
Well, no obviously not, but you don't. You don't need to be betting millions of dollars to move a line. Well, I do. You can bet ten dollars, can move a line, like you can bet $10. Can move a line if it's the right. Better, who's betting on something? If your profile is such like I'm not claiming to be a pro better, and this rarely happens but there's been occasions where I'm betting less than $50 and a line is moving as soon as I bet it. 

23:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a conversation for another day as to whether or not you should be betting the $50 bet if you're moving the line, but we could talk about that later, what's your year? 

23:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I moved the line the other way. I've noticed I'm making bets at a certain book. 

23:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If this is a real story, we need to talk off air, because if you can fake the number at a book, I think I can. 

24:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Let's run a test. 

24:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This isn't like signing up for market manipulation can fake the number at a book with. I think I can. This is let's run a test. This is real market. 

24:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think they're seeing me come in and they're like we're going against them. This guy, I mean it and I'm such a sucker. I'm that guy like you, just I'll. I'll like my own pride, I'll go right back in again yeah, I'll go right back in again you want to really move it against me, I'll give you a better number. 

24:25
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll double click um, to add in here, I ignore like I give him sort of his place on like the top or near the very top shelf of the industry. I know people can dispute that. I'm not one to sub for picks, so so I say that like not as a subscriber, not even anyone that's made money off the service, Right, but I actually really like I don't know if long-term this works, but I think he crushed this video. Yeah, I really did. I don't know if the TikTok audience will take it in and like digest it and like be willing to even see one of those releases in real time and see what actually happens, because all you've got to do if you bet sports and you have any iota how it works in the slightest you watch one of those release drops and it like any question about their ability to move a number is just he actually did show that in the video. 

25:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I know we didn't play this part. 

25:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm saying they can still think that's doctored. There's no question in my mind and I think he plays it. I think he plays this well. Getting into every fight with someone on the talk who tells you you're full of shit, that sounds exhausting. But when you're as good as they, I don't want, I don't want to like speak out of turn because it would sound like I'm promoting for them no, no, but if they're as good as their like reputation is, then you're happy to like repost this every time someone talks shit about you. 

26:02 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
If we're talking about pure content. First of all, you gotta. 

26:06
You gotta not unlike like thumbs down the comment when you screenshot like I agree, do undo the thumbs down screenshot, then slap the thumbs down, but then also on top of this, I think this is great content if you're trying to grow because, listen, I we know that the tiktok audience is not going to be, is not, does not believe in this stuff, right? So even if you're converting 1% of the person, it's good, but the 99% that doesn't like it. Guess what? They're going to be commenting on it. They're going to be watching the full thing through. They're going to be saying this guy's an idiot, he doesn't know what he's talking about. But guess what? Every time somebody watches something and says this guy's an idiot and comments on it, it increases you with the favorites you like to hate. Watch them, I don't hate comment. 

26:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You don't hate comment, I draw the line. I draw the line and hate commenting. 

26:46 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
You'll give them the view. 

26:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You'll give them the view, the view and the good watch time, but no, over his dead body is he giving them the push of commenting. 

26:55 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
These guys aren't smart enough to realize that though, so they're going to comment, they're going to fire away, they're and you're going to like this video. I think had like 60 likes when it was sent in our group chat. I'm looking right now, three days later, it's at 600 likes right now and like that's not just views, those are just likes. 

27:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The problem is the people on TikTok. I don't say that like in a besmirching way as much as I did. They can't afford a service. You would be surprised. 

27:23 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
No, you'd be surprised. 

27:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, you'd be surprised. No, you'd be surprised. No, I know, I know there's money on tiktok, I know there's money to be made on tiktok. I mean the people who are like watching and fight, like they're not at the point in their gambling journey where they want to pay a service. They're. 

27:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know that they want to pay the prices of right. 

27:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
There's a point in the service where they think you know, you know ball, I know ball like that um. But like I said, if it's worth one percent or you convert, I don't uh, disagree slightly. 

27:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think you just have to have a lower price point, because there's so many of these like tiktok and instagram handicappers that are selling like 20 bucks a week packages that don't fucking know shit, but that is our rise, ain't no 20s? 

28:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, it's not, it's completely different. 

28:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I will say last thing on this one. I do like this form of content which is exactly the same as this show, which is reactionary, like you're just using something else as your focal point, because it's not easy to do weekly Like. Sure, if you're doing nfl picks, it writes itself. You know this is the card, whatever. But when you're doing like evergreen sports betting content, how many times have we had in like conversations offline for the hammer about like what's our instagram and tiktok strategy gonna be? It's just like we're gonna do trivia. 

28:42 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
And you know it's hard to make evergreen content. 

28:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's good, and by using like the comments itself. I used to do educational videos for Pinnacle like that. I would just look at comments from our YouTube or emails that came in and turn them into full videos. It's easy. 

28:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Important question though, because Chernoff's got time to respond to TikTok. I might have missed it, which is bad, but has he taken a moment to respond to George yet? 

29:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think he wants anything to do with GRP. 

29:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
no, and I will just take another moment. It's also, I also feel, for Chernoff, you know. 

29:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I want to. You can say it. Chernoff is a friend of mine. He's a great guy. I understand the hate that he gets from certain people. Certain people are never going to accept selling picks. They're never going to, you know, accept the fact that he was, you know, a scammer, so to speak, when he was younger. Like that's fine and everyone's entitled to their opinion on Chernoff. The thing with, like the GRP Chernoff thing we talked about a few weeks ago, he's not even tracking the guy properly. It's fake news. It's all fake news. 

29:45
Like if, if I do a radio show and if I go on, you better, you bet, like I did this past week. And nick costo says at the end of the show rob one word who's gonna win this week? Chiefs are 49ers. I said chiefs. It doesn't matter that it won or not, but if I sit, I don't want to be held to that being a pick. Or, you know, if a host asks me about a game, if I go on Miami radio and they are going to ask me about the Dolphins game every week, even if I don't like the Dolphins game, I'm going to talk about it and I will say explicitly I'm not betting this. Chernoff does the same thing. By the way, I listen to a lot of his hits. He says I'm not gonna bet this game, but if I, if I had to, I would take the dolphins or I would take the colts and, like, grp is now holding him accountable to every single one of those. 

30:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's not reality I know in a lot of gambling you can get away with like all sorts of terminology to save a record. You know you could be like that wasn't a real bet. I called it lunch money. That was on the lunch money tabulation. Turn off by playing this game of being this forward-facing and wanting to do the radio hits a casual better still wants his lean. He does. So if you're like you said, you're on the game and they ask you for it, the audience still wants your lean on the game. You could say I'm not betting it, this is my lean. I would still respect Chernoff's lean. Chernoff's lean, much like yours, rob, is probably way better than my decisive thought. Yeah, um, right, that's just probably there's more thought, there's more research that went to your lean than my like eyeballs from watching last week and you know, you know doing my content haul. Yeah, it's so. It's tricky so to be so to be tracked on lean is ridiculous. 

31:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Chernoff is doing the right thing to ignore it, Because if you don't ignore it it blows up even more than it already is. 

31:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's best to ignore it, but George could do, you could track him fairly. 

31:49 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Of course. 

31:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean technically he is tracked fairly. It's the service record. It's right angle sports, what they release, because that's what they're betting. 

32:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So I just service record. It's right angle sports what they release, because that's what they're betting. So I I just don't. I don't have time for the. You probably could have sold your tweet last night about the mojo oh yeah, this is inside baseball. 

32:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You probably could have sold that to turn off I could have, and he could have tweeted, you know, like right, how? 

32:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
uh, you know, there's people who write songs, there's people who sing songs. 

32:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You could have written that song, yeah, for those that don't know what jeff's talking about grp. You know he's a couple times in life um. What was the game that? 

32:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
it was like detroit dallas. 

32:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Just a week ago I said if you bet on dallas, you lost your mojo. Don't go into work, you know. Don't ask your partner for sex. We talked about it last week. I basically just tweeted a spoof on that, which is if you bet against Mahomes as a dog, the exact same thing you lost your mojo. We'll move on here. Saw this come across on Twitter. 

32:50
This is the most insane customer service interaction. Well, one of them I'll get to a few others in a second Kyle Vikings 10 tweets at gambling podcast. Have you ever seen something like this? And he posts this live chat interaction with a sports book that says um, where the sports book says do you mind holding for two to three minutes while I investigate your query for you? Sure, thank you for holding. Please, can you confirm why you need your money for he responds is this a serious question? Because it's my money. I've seen many an interaction with sports books before. Those who don't know, I'll just say it again for the millionth time I consulted for sports books before. Most of the time, a lot of these books are going to outsource their customer service to a cheaper place Colombia, costa Rica, whatever some sort of call center You're never going to get. In most cases, you're not going to get perfect customer service, but I don't think I've ever seen someone ask why do you need your money? 

33:52 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
This is crazy, because this is. I assume that Kyle is in a legal state where yeah, I assume this is a legal sports book in a legal state or province yeah, I assume this is a legal sports book in a legal state or or province, or wherever he is. And the what bothers me the most about this is that, of course, like we all know why there's no, there's none of these questions of like they do this to see where the money came from, make sure it's not like anything illegal or anything along those lines, but why is that being done when you withdraw it and not when you deposit? 

34:16
oh yeah, we all know, why we obviously all know why, but it's like how, how, like, what's worse, like this, this stuff became legal. Betting became legal to protect the player, right, and I don't know how this has anything to do with protecting the player. 

34:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This has nothing to do with I've been kicked off this book um, wow, you must have hit a big golf out right, or something and I would would like I wish my interactions with Derek Cosby. 

34:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I wish there was a transcript, for posterity purposes, of how these guys deal with it. Yeah. And I think there's such a great book too, which makes it suck Because the interface fantastic. I'm sorry, I don't care to name the book. 

34:58 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Anyone who bets should just be familiar, I think, with I'm sure you've had trouble, troubles with it, but it's like they'll let for a casual like. 

35:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They'll let you do whatever you want. They'll let you parlay anything. Yeah, they give options. It's a really good book. 

35:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sometimes when you're out and about in town here, rob, you can watch the games I know, yeah, you can watch the games now is a big difference maker, for just I'm not even using it to bet. 

35:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'll just have a few shekels in there just so I could maybe, uh, have access to it. This is disgusting. I don't even have a my like blood is boiling. I don't even know how to. If you think I mangle and mush my words together, I would just like I wouldn't even know how to go about responding to this. 

35:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I probably would have done the exact same thing that kyle did, but I have a larger following, like if a sportsbook ever asked me to confirm why I need my money. 

35:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm sorry that interaction is now I don't even think because this is a an app I don't even think they're allowed to ask me to see my bank statement, and if they do, we're done. 

36:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's very common nowadays, though. 

36:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh well, then I go offshore. 

36:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
We're always friends. The one comment on that is that they don't ask for your bank statement to deposit. They ask for your bank statement. 

36:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But Dave hold on a second which is awful to do that. 

36:17
There is a like. Literally, if I want to extort money, like the way in which I am depositing and withdrawing, that's not extortion. Like I know what it would look like if I was trying to extort money through the sportsbook. Yeah, it would not be this. You know, andy Dufresne would have a better chance chiseling out of that wall. That's great like I just like, there's just no yeah there's just no way in my account history does this show that this is laundering. You don't need to know what my accounts say a lot, a lot. 

36:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen. A lot of this stuff nowadays in the regulated market is legislated by individual states or provinces. What kind of checks they need Now? Whether or not they should have to do it on deposit or withdrawal, that's a different story. Obviously, sportsbooks are businesses. Prove my identity. 

37:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You can ask me for my job. Yeah, there's a lot of fair and balanced things that I believe you're allowed, you're entitled for. Don't ask me why I need my money. Yeah, do not ask me what this money is for, why I need it. That is none of your god damn business. They don't ask you at the liquor store what do you need? 

37:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
what do? 

37:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
you need, are you? 

37:33 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
buying this for yourself how? 

37:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
quickly. Do you plan on drinking? 

37:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
well, maybe they could, because if it's for somebody else, yeah, there's a problem, but I get the point my. 

37:41 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
My problem is, though, like like you said, jacob, is that you can like they don't ask for you when you deposit. I know friends who, literally, they have apple pay set up with this, with this sports book, where they can just double click their phone and they can throw my as much money as you can into it very quickly three, four, five day, two week, three week, four week process to get it out like. I know we talk about gambling within our means. You should never be putting in, uh, too much money to your sports book where you can't handle. Yeah, like you should treat that as money you don't have anymore, but again, like it's, it's sad to see I would never so for me it sucks. 

38:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
first and foremost again, I think these problems should be solved at the regulatory level and not the individual sportsbook level, because you let them do this kind of stuff and it happens. There should be SLAs with each customer service level agreements where if you request a deposit, you will get your deposit within X amount of time and they should be forced to deliver on that period. But that should be regulatory. If you let the sportsbooks do it themselves, you know it's not going to happen. There were some crazy sportsbook interactions back in the day, like I know you mentioned offshore, but offshore this shit happens. 

38:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Oh yeah, I know, and they could screw you sometimes harder. 

38:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Five dimes, Tony, rest in peace. But like you put a bad bet, in five dimes you would not get a customer service agent who chatted with you. You would get Tony, the guy who ran it it, and he would give you two options. He would say we're going to cancel this bet and you know you're no longer welcome here or the bet, whatever. I'm screwing this up, but he's always saying you're no longer welcome here. You're going to cancel the wager, you're going to keep the wager, no matter what. 

39:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're not welcome here once upon a time I had like there's nothing more annoying than when the money isn't like in your either of your accounts and just like floating in cyberspace, and I had an issue where money was floating way too long. Good thing my buddy, Rob consulted for sports books and was able to help me resolve an issue which I don't think was on their end. I don't think it was malicious, but it's like they didn't care. 

39:38
Yeah, it just sort of fell through the cracks. They got too many things to deal with. Um, the only thing worse in some ways, like in dealing with a lot of this nonsense in my mind, like as a sports fan who likes to bet is I think of what sort of happened with some of the regulation. And then I think about the fanatics monopoly on the apparel side and I don't know which one makes me angrier. I know they're very separate, but I don't know which one makes me angrier. All of it. The shirt I got a Charger shirt. I should bring it in. I sent it to a package. 

40:15 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm afraid about this. 

40:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, I've almost been holding it in, so I don't know. I sent a package away and I didn't open it for a long time. It was a shirt, so past any point I could return. Something is a Chargers shirt with a Cardinals patch on the side. 

40:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Can I have that? That's kind of cool, that's sick. 

40:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
As a Chargers fan, I'd be pissed off. Yes, as a Chargers fan, I'd be pissed off. Yes, a Chargers fan would be pissed off I don't know it's rough, not to me, it's not sick. 

40:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's rough. That's rough. Anyways, speaking of sportsbooks that are not going to screw you with bad customer service, pinnacle has been in business for the past 25 years. They're known as very reputable in the space good customer service, fair limits for everyone and they get your withdrawals out on time as well. Check them out. If you're in Canada, go to Pinnaclecom slash Hammer if you do want to check them out. Like I said, 25 years in business. For a reason you must be 19 plus, not available in the US. And, as always, please play responsibly. All right, keep it moving along here. If you're enjoying the show, smash that like button down below. If you're listening in audio form, please rate and review 5 Stars. This is an interesting thread. 

41:20
A couple people I really respect NFL pinnacle beater Jay Croucher. Pinnacle beater says he hates when people say well, sharps like this side. That needs to stop Jay Croucher. A couple things that really bother him in the space when people say Vegas, but also when they say they set the line with the purpose of drawing even 50-50 action on each side. Jay Croucher used to be a sportsbook trader in the recreational sportsbook space. Also hates when people say odds-on favorite to repeat the champions when they're not really an odds-on favorite. Odds-on means that the implied odds have to be 50% or more. Little nitpicky, but everyone has their own things. I know what I have in the space that drives me crazy. It's very similar to the pinnacle beater, which is sharps like this side. I hate the pros versus Joes type of. 

42:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sharps versus squares. Yeah, I do that to you sometimes. Sometimes I'm guilty of being like rob. Is this a sharps for squares? 

42:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know you say that it really bothers me. 

42:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, every time you message me about that, no, well, I don't know because I, but like I'm just on the internet, yes, surfing, and I've got a lot of I like to call myself a sophisticated square. Okay, because when I make a square bet, like I know I'm, I know it's a square bet yeah, I make a stupid teaser, like I know it's a stupid teaser. I'm not like this. I got them on this one right. So it's like I'm a square, but like there's a level of I'm self-aware enough, yeah, in that. But I see, all the time, like all the casuals are on my casual friends are on one side of a game fantasy bros and then people like you and the other smart guys are all in another. So I can't help but think anecdotally this is a sharps versus squares game. 

43:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So here's what I'm going to tell you about every game. There's professionals on both sides of the game and probably at every number as well, like I. At the end of the day, the market, the betting, is going to influence where the line is going to go, but you're not going to have a single game ever where it's just all the pros are piling in on one side. There's always going to be professional money on the other side as well, like it's going to happen the same with the Joe's. You might say, okay, 80% of the public whatever we public splits you want to is on this side in the game, but there's other people that are on the other side, like it's. It's so irrelevant to the entire conversation. Is my whole point like completely irrelevant for the millionth time this you know. 

43:55
The public loses because they have to pay minus 110 on bets. Yes, they're flipping coins, everyone's flipping coins on the point spread. If it's a long enough sample, they're probably going to hit 50% on NFL spreads, but they're paying. They have to hit 52.5% to break even. That's why. And then they do stupid stuff, like they parlay and they tease the dumbest numbers, they tease totals, they do everything that they're going to do Never done that I'm not saying you no, I'm saying I do some dumb things with totals. 

44:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, I know. 

44:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But that's the reason that people lose in the long run. It's not like, oh, everybody's lined up on this side, it's going to lose. I mean, look at the last two weeks of the NFL, the quote, quote-unquote, public side. It's done very well because it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant to the conversation. 

44:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
There have been some big line moves, though, in the past couple weeks. I'm sure they've all gone both. I'm sure Waters found its level. 

44:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But the line moves are just purely like the sharp batters moving the line. It has nothing to do with public right. It's like a big sharp group coming in on one side of the game. They might have enough money to push something out at game time to a position where other people just pile in last minute on the other side and they can't get it off. That number like all the pros versus joes, it's meaningless, it's nothing, it's it's I. I hate it. I honestly hate it, because all the people always be like oh, the pros are on this and it's like I don't. 

45:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, I want to just say one thing about that. Yeah, I believe most people who say it, like myself, it's just strictly anecdotal, it's too prompt, it's. There's that one guy in your group chat who you don't want to be on that side of saying this, and then the two other people you know who are pretty sophisticated, that run models, are on the other. So you have quickly, just like me, made it. Oh, this is definitely the sharp V-square game, or the public just super overreacting to like a running back being out. Well, you guys, I say that as like a compliment like that doesn't even budge, like that doesn't even move. 

45:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
KC San Fran yesterday. Right, I'll tell you, I interact with a lot of other professional bettors. There's such thing that goes on that's called crossing in the betting space, where if you don't want to pay VIG on a game, let's say me and you Jeff like opposite sides of the game, we'll bet with each other rather than betting directly through a sportsbook. 

46:23
So I interact with tons of groups because I'm always looking to get the best price. I'll tell you, I could not find someone to take a big free cross on San Fran yesterday. I could not. I had to bet Kansas City into the market because nobody wanted the San Fran side. Yet all the public was on San Fran. The line moved out one way because one big group bet it out and people just view that as gospel. They're like oh, kc is square. I'll tell you right now, the people that I interact with, they win in the long run, a lot of them. No one wanted San Fran in that game. That's just one example. And whether or not KC or San Fran, so that's not a Sharps versus Squares game. 

46:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
There might have been a sharp on the 49ers, but how you just said that, to me that screamed sharps versus squares. 

47:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no. In what sense? 

47:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
In that you couldn't find anyone in your circle to want to bet the other side of it. 

47:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but that's why I'm talking like 10 people. You know how many people bet into market. Obviously I'm aware, but I've your 10 people is worth x. I would have not have put the number on that. 

47:29
Like we have people literally messaging us like who's betting san fran right now so when you say, other people are looking at the line movement and they're like, oh you know, like san fran's got to be the side right. Everyone's bending kc lines moving the other way. What, what? What do the sports books know that we don't know? What do these betters know that we don't know if someone's just taking a position on the game? They have a lot of money to move the number that's it. 

47:50 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
How many square jasons outweigh 10 of rob's sharp circle? I don't understand how many. Like I was on Casey's side. I'm obviously not a pro, I'm very much a Joe. How many Jasons would there have to be on that side to make it the other way around? I was on San. 

48:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Francisco, so let's just put that out into the public but I don't care, I'm not no. 

48:10
I don't care, I'm not betting to make a, I'm not. I'm not betting as a means of living and guess what? I don't even need to go, as long as I don't lose, even if I am on the wrong side of 50-50, that's okay. I'm betting for fun. I'm betting within my means. Sports betting and watching football is a hobby. Hobbies are supposed to be fucking expensive. I think it's okay if a hobby is expensive. I don't do other things. So if that's what I do, so I don't know. I guess in this life, goal of it's my living and I'd be more offended. But I played into all the tropes, not so much the revenge trope. I don't want to publicly say what I actually thought because I think the homes and the Chiefs are great. 

48:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You don't have to give your handicap. 

49:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I just thought. I clearly thought the 49ers were a better team than they are. That's fine. It had nothing to do with Super Bowls and outcomes in the Super Bowls. 

49:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not criticizing you, I just think in general it's similar to so Pinnacle Beat said. I want to say an injury news slash report, clearly moving a line and a podcast saying, well, sharps like this side needs to stop Because yes, there's stuff like injuries come out. The market is going to move based off of that Doesn't mean it's the sharp side, it means that the number that was in market becomes a valuable number because of something new that happened in market. That, to me, drives me nuts for sure. But the whole idea of people every morning, the Sunday morning shows, which thankfully I'm on air on Pizza Buffet, on Forward Progress, but those shows are brutal. Sharps, love this. Sharps, love this. Sharps, love this. Pros, love this. Pros, love this. It's like this shouldn't figure into your handicap at all. If the sharps and pros like this, they've already moved it to a point where it's no longer a value. 

50:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They liked it on Tuesday. 

50:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, anyways, that is the big one for me. 

50:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That drives me nuts I will say, I mean, yes, it takes the actual Shefty rap sheet tweet of this injury or this guy didn't practice again for like the super steam, but there's also projection that comes into it. You get a sense of, maybe, what the injury is Like. There's some doctor bots who are better than other doctor bots. But you know, just on the case of just the game tonight there's a Chargers-Arizona game. Once you have a, you're willing to be. You have a very strong lean that marvin harrison will clear protocol and play. You're willing to bet on it before it becomes official anyway at a different number. 

50:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, like what you know, it's a I bet the over in that game. I bet the over in that game in chargers arizona purely because I felt marvin harrison jr was all signs pointed to it. 

50:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
you didn't need the official declaration from Sheppard. Correct, I want to get out ahead of market. 

51:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It then moves. I'm not betting the over anymore. It's very clear that I like that side because of some positive injury news that was going to happen. It could lose, but like. 

51:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is just semantics, but in these cases is it just sharps, or like dudes following the league all day, who bet Well, to me they would be sharp if they're doing that. 

51:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If someone's following news all day and they're betting based off of that, that constitutes being sharp. In my opinion, that's one of the easiest foolproof ways to get an edge. Following news Like it's the easiest of all the ways to gain an edge. 

51:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And that showed itself very clear. It's easy to say after the fact, but in last week's Broncos-Saints game Sure, that was another one. You saw the injury. They were just there. 

51:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You knew that line couldn't Injury. Information comes out Hitman releases a play, you see. 

51:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Olave's head go off the turf and they're playing on a Thursday. You know how this modern. I'm not even saying he shouldn't have played. He actually could not even possibly play. Yeah, you know how the modern. 

52:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You knew Olave was out and Patrick Sertan was out because you need five days to clear concussion protocol. 

52:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They could not play so right there you have information that's not being declared by the thing, but there's hard information you can make your bets on. 

52:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, totally agree. 

52:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
We your bets on yeah totally agree. 

52:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, we'll move on here. Um, parlays greater than straight. I think this has an accompanying video. But jeff nadeau who I've really come around on and you know I had a lot of beef with jeff nadeau in the past uh, he tweets god, I fucking hate these people. 

52:33 - Tyler Strunk (Announcement)
And this is the video he's referring to our lives are the most profitable sports betting strategy out there. Here's why look at this chart right here for the year of 2024 look at the record now a casual sports bet is going to look at that and be like, oh my god, you suck. You've lost over 2 000 more bets than you've won. However, look at the roi and look at the quickly. 

52:46 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I love analytical dot betting like a great great analytical dot bet great, great to sucker in all those idiots who comment on ross yeah, sorry, no, no, it's a good one. 

52:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I already continue on and I I'm gonna have some thoughts on this. I could tell you already, within 15 seconds, I've 50 percent roi with 18.4 units of profit. 

53:08 - Tyler Strunk (Announcement)
Here's why parlays are just better. Here was one we hit this weekend. We hit a three-leg parlay. It was an 8x play. I only put 30 on this play and turned it into 242. Now my straight betting unit size is a hundred dollars. So yes, in theory all these hit great. I make a lot of money, but I'm only making 60 more dollars for triple the risk if I did the same thing here. I'm down over two units because of the juice. However, just because I parlayed it, I'm only down 30 bucks, which is about a quarter of a unit for me. Parlay betting is so slept on and it's extremely profitable. I'm tired of all these old heads telling you it's not. 

53:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you guys want every parlay I make, click the link. Oh yeah, of course we got to the parlay. 

53:40 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Before we say anything, parlay betting is so slept on. It's the craziest statement on earth because it is literally the biggest way that sportsbooks make money. Everyone I know parlays. Raise your hand right now. If you know someone who doesn't parlay, comment down below. If you know someone who doesn't place any parlays ever in their life, that is the most common wager I would. I would, but for everyone, I would argue. Maybe not sharp people, but for the 90 of people betting into sportsbooks I would guess that majority of their plays are parlay. So no, they're not slept on. That is the worst. Take in in in this show's history. 

54:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes, okay, I want to say one thing before we get into this further parlays can be a very effective tool for bettors who know what they're doing. If you have an edge in sports betting, oftentimes if you're parlaying games or player props or whatever you're compounding that edge, it can work. So there's a lot of material out there that says never parlay. I might have even done a video before geared towards recreational bettors, that says don't parlay because you shouldn't. If you're a record done a video before geared towards recreational bettors, that says don't parlay because you shouldn't. If you're right. 

54:41
However, there are situations where it can happen. This guy's explanation for it is is like the galaxy brain. He just he just nitpicks one example where he went three at home, one where one, and he says well, if I you know you have to do every derivative of exam of this example, what if game one but game two and three lose? In all these instances where one loses, you lose the parlay. So you can calculate the expected value very easily and you can see that in most cases, the parlay is not the way to go. 

55:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
So you're saying we have to round robin our bets instead? 

55:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know I'm Neidu and me this is like a kumbaya moment where I'm going to sound like a huge boomer, but I actually fucking hate these people as well. I hate the TikTok scammer people who I don't even know if it's intentional or they actually think they know what they're doing Granted unconfirmed. 

55:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
if he's a scammer, we couldn't find his's the thing profile. Okay, pick it so full disclosure. 

55:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm a co-owner of bet stamp competitor in market to pick it, pick it the app. If we're going to use this for like real record keeping, it's just a tool to basically scan. If we're calling it out for what it is like, you can hide picks on picket that lose and just put in an explanation as to why you hid them. There's people who do this all the time. Oh, bet this, bet this for my roommate. Oh, yeah, your roommate must have lost their last 15 straight bets that are all in the red right now like, for it is just a tool, so we can never verify that this record's. 

56:15
That's one of the biggest problems, for sure, because we have have. No, I couldn't find this account, by the way. I don't know if anyone was able to find this account. I couldn't find it, but it just creates, like, even more ways for someone to over inflate. 

56:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It is a scammer's paradise, yeah. 

56:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And, by the way, like I get why Pickett would do that. Like one of the challenges we faced with bet stamp in the early going was people don't really want to realize that they lose. Yes, they don't, they just want they'll start a new account. We had to guard against multi-accounting. They will literally dm us and say, hey, hold on a second can you delete these picks, they, so picket has created a, an app. It's not like a real tracking app people aren't using for real tracking. 

56:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Let's let's call it out for what it is I mean I don't want to see, like I wouldn't want my drug dealer to show me like how many things I've bought this year. 

57:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I agree it's just a fun. No, but they're selling pics. Maybe I shouldn't have said that saying that they're, I wouldn't want like I wouldn't want like a mcdonald's app to like. 

57:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't need the recap, yeah, but McDonald's doesn't brand their food as healthy. 

57:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
These people are branding their stuff as winning picks, which they're not. Mcdonald's does not brand their food as healthy. 

57:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I get as a pro, you sell picks or whatever. You have to do this or you're a total scam. I can see why recreational bettors don't want to be reminded of that. Like messy night, I agree, at the bar or something. 

57:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I totally understand. 

57:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
But they're selling the service Psychology of it. You're held to a higher standard when you're selling picks. 

57:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Betstamp was a four man team when we first started it and when people would literally message me every day being like, hey man, I had a rough week, can we just delete that from the record? I'd be like no what are we doing here? 

58:04
It's like, oh, people are going to see it on my profile I'm trying to sell pics. I'm like, yeah, that's the entire point is for you to legitimize yourself through a real record, and I get why that's not like the best business plan, don't get me wrong. Like the best business plan, don't get me wrong, but this is now it. What? What purpose does it? Serve what's useless? Yeah, it's. I mean it serves the purpose of making yourself look like you're a much better great, great. 

58:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I will just to to be diplomatic here. We cannot confirm or deny this is a winning player, because if I go on this guy's picket page there's like like I couldn't find any bets. 

58:37 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I I don't even understand well, you can't even see the all-time bets. I have no idea how this works, all these things have been put into place to make the better feel better about themselves, and that's part of the problem, though, right. 

58:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like that's why it's not good. I get it my actual moderator at the end of Billy Madison, who pretty much lets the whole room know they're dumber. Every one of the listeners are now dumber for having to have sat through that video. 

59:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Parlays can be better than straight bets if you're compounding your edge, if they're correlated parlays, where all of the events in theory would happen if the game script goes in a certain direction that you're seeing, but the way he's wording it here is all of the events in theory would happen if the game script goes in a certain direction that you're seeing, but the way he's wording it here is very incorrect. 

59:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's just wrong. Also, just to wrap it up, the Nadeau thing. I'll go back to the comment because it rings so true for me. God, I fucking hate these people. It's the whole. It's the way that every TikTok video is structured, which is like look how well I've done. Here's some piece of advice I'm gonna offer you. That doesn't make any sense. Buy my package at the end. The guy's betting $30 on his parlays. He's selling a $20 package. That's all you need to know, honestly. That's enough for you right there, nick Wright and wrong. Nick. 

01:00:00
Wright. First things first. Basically, what's happening here is that Will Parkinson correctly points out that when Devontae Adams gets traded, nick Wright is going to go from saying he's a good receiver to he is washed when he gets traded, specifically to the jets. Couldn't have predicted it better. They're not good. They're not assumed to be 32 year old receiver with a gimpy hamstring away from being good. I'll tell you, we normally talk sports betting and this is just more sports, but when people can accurately predict what your takes are going to be before they're there, that's when I think you've lost the plot. 

01:00:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's time to hang it up at that point, at that point, you're washed and I actually think there's a lot of people out there follow me who hate me, but it's my unpredictability that won't let them fully go away. Fair, because I've got enough unpredictability where it's like unpredictability that won't let them like fully go away. Fair Because. 

01:01:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I've got enough unpredictability where it's like I hate them. Is that your draw to him? Yeah, I think so. I just like. 

01:01:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
GRP. I see it for the humor it is. I don't take it seriously. I don't think, unlike the TikTok like trends of the world. I don't think he's actually pushing TikTok like trends of the world. I don't think he's actually pushing Like. I don't think anyone who's into GRP culture is like not aware of the shtick. 

01:01:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It might just annoy you as a hardened programmer. Could people describe you as similar to that? 

01:01:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Jeff, you think I mean other than having great hair, but I don't know what that means. 

01:01:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I've got three people today. Do you shower? Today I put gel in the hair. 

01:01:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, no, how great your hair looks, because sometimes I'm too lazy, I didn't shower. 

01:01:41 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I think your hair looks great today. 

01:01:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I don't live at home. I'm not an NFL expert. I'm married with three kids and two dogs. I got a lot different than GRP. I'm not knocking it, but but this particular instance right. 

01:02:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Nick Wright says that the Raiders are a disaster and somebody is going to get a really good receiver and someone flat out comes and says he's going to be traded to the Jets and you're going to say that he's washed. And he literally comes out and says a 32-year-old receiver with a gimpy hamstring, Can I defend this? Sure, it's not apples. 

01:02:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're going to say it's not apple, you're gonna say I don't think it's apples to apples and I think nick can be pretty annoying. He does a lot and nick has also been elevated. Nick's rise coincides perfectly timed with the dominance of mahomes and the chiefs. He was like a hardened fan who had a bit of a national platform, yep, and then the chiefs became like the it team of this time frame and it has given him, or those networks have then put him up, and I don't, I, I don't even not like him. Apparently he's really good at the nba. I couldn't tell you he's talking about. I think he's talking about the jets in the second tweet, like if he goes to washington, or the chiefs, even though that was division, or give me some of the others. 

01:03:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't know that this is. He's definitely talking jets because he says they're not good, but he says they're not a soon-to-be 32-year-old receiver with a gimpy hamstring. 

01:03:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Away from being good, he's roasting his age and his injury history all of a sudden, when before he was somebody who's going to get a really good receiver. 

01:03:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
My whole thing is hot. Take business is huge. It's not for me. I'm not the guy that's. I hate Skip Bayless. First take. Yeah, I don't like that where it's just to stir the pot. In a lot of cases I don't think these guys actually believe what they're saying. No, they don't. It's like the Clay Travis political takes stuff like that. It's not even. It's just catering to an audience to get people upset. 

01:03:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
They have to be opposed as well. The two hosts on this. 

01:03:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, there's too much production that goes into it We've come a long way from like Mike and Mike. 

01:03:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes. 

01:03:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Starting, which is so crazy, not to like go backwards but to think of once upon a time someone thought, yeah, there's a need in the marketplace for more regular sports. Talk, yeah, pti. In the early days, but even first take when it first started in the early 2000s there was like a need, I think, for that, for more reactionary, like not six hours of Sports center. Repeat, in the morning yeah, let's just react, and in reacting in the moment you're gonna get caught. 

01:04:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm not defending. It's the lack of realism that bothers me. 

01:04:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's it's well now, it's become too produced. 

01:04:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's become too, it's become overly produced everyone will do things to get clicks period. Like I'll tell you when. When simon hunter came back at me and he said, oh, like you can't even draw, you can't even break the top 200 podcasts or whatever. It's like I'm the worst ceo ever. I'm saying this like I bet you people from our board of directors at the hammer will be watching, but I will not do things purely to get clicks. I can't even tell you how many board meetings I've gone to where they're like you need to do this, you need to do that, yeah you turn down challenges. 

01:05:03
I'm like this is not our brand, it's not. I don't want to do that, but it seems like everyone wants to do that and they just like sacrifice the morals. Yeah, it seems so immoral. It's just like two guys artificially picking opposite sides of an argument every time just going head to head. It's so stupid and and I don't know I honestly don't know why people love it so much and you could. 

01:05:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, it's so easy for any of us. Rob specifically, you could take talk to someone who doesn't know much about either football team in any game. You give them two minutes with Rob. You could convince them to bet either side. 

01:05:44 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
You can make a case on any side you can exactly? 

01:05:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I got easy, would not be hard. Also like being having been behind the fourth wall in TV production it is. There's like a level of like it's all gotta be produced. Yeah, everyone's got to play a certain role and if everyone agrees, then someone's raising their hand to be like I'm just gonna do the other one. 

01:06:13 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
So have you guys ever heard of co-worker humor? You guys ever heard of that term? It's kind of a new term going around the internet nowadays. It's basically like kind of like you ever see SNL videos online, you're like, who finds this stuff funny? Yeah, that is co-worker humor. It's like that co-worker is going to tell you to go watch that video. This is the sports equivalent of co-worker humor. That's what for? Like. I cannot imagine the person who would watch this and like this, but for god knows why. But there's people out there who love this stuff and they're the ones who are telling you to watch it. 

01:06:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't know how they exist, but I actually the numbers would show people aren't watching this stuff nearly as much as well, though I'm generating generating a lot of viral videos. Yeah, that's what that's. That's different than the TV ratings. But that's essentially the goal of the TV production now is to generate the viral cut-ups and impressions. But this is co-worker. 

01:07:00 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Humor sports edition. 

01:07:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, agreed, walking investments we had to include Taylor Mathis. Jason said he wouldn't do the show today if we didn't. Okay, okay, sorry guys. Investments we had to include taylor mathis. Jason said he wouldn't do the show today if we didn't. Um, okay, okay, sorry guys. This is all new to me. I'm learning, lol. But at one point sports betting was new to me. So, taylor to the moon with the rocket, uh, with her address, for it looks like taylor coin. So I think what's happened here is she's developed a large enough. Following that, there was a uh, I'll call it a shit coin, not because of her, but like just uh. 

01:07:30 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Well, that's what they're called it's a shit coin, yeah that was uh, is it taylor coin, something like that? 

01:07:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
just taylor, taylor's the ticker, taylor's the ticker. And someone created this yep on the solana chain from the looks like it, looks of it and gifted her 500 million Taylor coin, which is the equivalent of 186 thousand dollars, which if okay quickly got it. 

01:07:57 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
We got to like, preface this that's not real money because there's no real liquidity in this. But hey, who knows, maybe there is liquidity because it's now. 

01:08:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's in my minutes, her mean coin portfolio basically tripled yeah, 659,000. Now I will say because I did get involved with meme coins and shit coins before and you're absolutely right In a lot of cases it's all fake value because you need a buyer. 

01:08:20
You need somebody who's going to buy the coin and it's nearly impossible to sell in a lot of these cases. But this was kind of what we were talking about a few weeks ago, where it's like, okay, it's walking bets at first, but it will. It will lead to like the massive opportunities in the space. 

01:08:37 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
People are literally just gifting her money at this point yes, and I think this is actually bad for her brand. If I were to be completely honest, because this is a take this is a pump and dump, obviously yeah, it's a clear, very clearly right. 

01:08:48
She's promoting and she's promoting it and unknowingly, whether she knows it or not, but at the same time, when you grow that big of a following, people expect you to have some form of transparency or or understanding that you're. You're not only set like. Your goal is not to just sell stuff to your. If you're selling this to your audience with the like what, what is the purpose of tweeting this out? It's to make yourself more money, right, yeah, and I and I think this is the problem I had with bringing in that voice because I'm assuming that he's probably the one by piping this stuff. 

01:09:15
The guy that got the ball dude, johnny sins this is that's my take right now is that he is the one who's pushing her in this direction this is the biggest. 

01:09:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is like we're into pure speculation territory now. Interesting, take tinfoil hat take who gave this guy a microphone? 

01:09:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
yeah, I I honestly don't know. 

01:09:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think she can do anything. 

01:09:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
That's bad for the brand yeah, fair, fair, literally I don't. There's a lot of examples of people with a rug pull shit coin who don't get any repercussions at all yeah, it's a money maker. 

01:09:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's gonna happen in every space she's still out out there like pushing it, hucking it. I don't think she's going to, but she was sidelined at the Jets-Bills game. Oh, that was tough, I felt bad about that. Yeah, so this is what I was going to say, Okay, and I don't know. She sent this tweet Like I've never been harassed more in my life, more in my life. There's people in the stands Like I'm just trying to make videos, Like I guess there's just like loser fans in like the sixth row who are yelling at her Cause. She gets to like stand on the field. That just goes all point. Like listen, I don't play games with her. Like pretending to have no self-awareness about how the sundresses play into the schtick. 

01:10:26
No, she knows but once she knows, that's the only thing when she likes to play dumb with that. I'd have no time for that. But at the same time she's a fucking rocket ship and of course she's going to be sidelined at a fucking NFL game if she wants. And to be harassing her over. 

01:10:42 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That is totally unacceptable At this point. She's media. So Totally unacceptable At this point. She's media. So I don't get why people are getting mad at her for being on the sideline. There's tons of media personalities on the sideline already. Why are you getting mad at her? Of all people, she's media. She's media for whatever sportsbook is sponsoring her. She's media for them, right? That's the whole goal. Here's the thing. 

01:11:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're just jealous. She's got a great seat. 

01:11:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm not suggesting that she wasn't getting her ass. 

01:11:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think it's very likely that she was, but you often don't hear, like you never hear the other side of any story either, right I who knows? Right, like I don't know the situation. Obviously she felt that way in the moment. I and I I root for taylor. Ever since taylor got let go by westgate for what was a fucking absolute joke. Yeah, where she was in a classroom and had kids filling out brackets and they deemed this to be like no, no, no, no, you cannot possibly do. She's like just trying to develop some interest in march matt. It's not like she's getting the kids to place down bets. That was a joke. I've always been rooting for her since then because that's like horrible but she's. 

01:11:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't think she'd get fired for that today. Oh, definitely not definitely no, no I don't even mean with the following. 

01:11:48 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I think that was just at a time where, like people were just so wound up about um, because it was becoming legal at that time, like for like, canceling for every now like things have been reigned in a bit like they've realized. You know did you get any uh tay, get any Taylor coin. I can't say I don't want to say, but if anyone wants to reach out to me and donate some Taylor coin to me, I'm not going to say no or make a Jason coin, I'm just very interested in following the ascent honestly. 

01:12:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of interactions with Barstool personalities lately. 

01:12:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, no, that's because she got brought into the mix almost to host a show between two big rivals at Barstool Nadeau and Rico, Nadeau and Rico. They won't talk or whatever, and Dave just wants to get Nadeau and Rico in a room. He thought maybe if he had Taylor to mediate something they wouldn't. But yeah she's gotten some push there. I think Barstool's a good fit for her. 

01:12:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's actually hilarious that those two guys hate each other because at one point they're cut from the same cloth. They were like two of the most five hated people for me in the entire industry. 

01:12:59 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, they're the same person. They are the exact. 

01:13:02 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I did not know that they were my favorite thing about Rico was a complete unwillingness to accept that he was a whack packer. It was like a stuttering John going back into the Stern database, yeah, and like this guy thought like no, he's with the Howard Robin Gary side of the operation. Like no, you're literally just though. You're like beetlejuice bro, you are a whack packer. 

01:13:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
and the sooner you realize you're a whack packer it gets easier for everyone yeah, the um really weird thing about rico bosco is barstool used to do like these trivia shows and you could like phone a friend. Yeah, similar to who wants to be a millionaire On one of the shows. I don't know the backstory about this. I have to find out. 

01:13:53 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, he does it often. He doesn't do it once in a while, anytime there's a CFP question. He doesn't know he calls Brad Powers, brad Powers. Yeah, I like that. 

01:14:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don powers, knows rico bosco, but I need to find out the full connection. 

01:14:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like that bowers is in um bosco's famous rolodex. Yes, it's hilarious. It's hilarious we'll end it off with another steve fezik hot take um fezik promoting his election show that was coming up. He has a unique hot take. He says only four states matter in this election. Know the results in those four, you will know who wins period. Find out why parley tom responds vezik, the election sharp. Unique hot take that only swing states matter. This sounds like the kind of info that could change lives. 

01:14:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I gotta tell you, man vezik's like simultaneously at times the best and the worst, like in the same moment and I don't even mean that as an insult, One of my best friends. We say that about Like there are very few people who can simultaneously be the best and the worst. 

01:14:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a great way to put it, fezzik is great for this show. By the way, I don't want to discourage Fezzik from tweeting because it's very, very great. I just don't know sometimes what's going through his head. In all seriousness, if I had never met Steve Fezzik or I had never seen a video of him, I would not believe that this was a real person. Based off their tweets I'm not exaggerating it almost seemed like this could be an AI account. With the way that some of these tweets are constructed sometimes, it's the weirdest thing. Also, of note, that's not in here, by the way, he gave a shout out to three people on Twitter last week, said to go follow them. One of them was you, jeff. 

01:15:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And I got a bump. So thank you, Steve, because I actually noticed a bit of a follower bump. 

01:15:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So Steve can move a needle um in that regard. He watched one live watch along on forward progress. You were on there. You said something about a soup and a deli shop. 

01:15:58 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
It's like you're not telling a deli shop how to. 

01:15:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah no, it's um, just this show happening and I said to jason, like I spoke to, I said this show need, there's a need in the marketplace for this. Yes, I've been saying that to Rob for like a year. Jason turned that and like obviously trying to stir the pot or not, was like Feinberg is like you're like I'm the reason this is happening. You accepted the idea. 

01:16:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, because it's such a division between me and you know, to create a division between me and you. I know what he was trying to do and he was trying to play us against each other. 

01:16:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He was producing, I was coming on. He wanted a new. 

01:16:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Rico Bosco situation between me and you. 

01:16:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And I'm like, listen, like pretending you invented the idea of like dudes or gals sitting around yucking about what other people are saying would be like walking into a deli and telling them that you invented the turkey sandwich. 

01:16:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yes. 

01:16:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Walking into a pizzeria and being like I invented putting toppings on a pizza. Like I just that's a Sal Governale thing, yes, but he loved that. 

01:17:05
He caught that on the watch along, and since then you've converted him into a huge Feinberg fan and it was the dude we did the tweet, gruden, last week, crying about people like he gave a best bet and it lost and people were crying and I'm like, do you not know how this works? That's as dumb as going to McDonald's and asking to speak to the chef. Yes, like Steve loved that too. So, yeah, I'm winning over steve and I've got some buddies who are big steve fans who are loving that I'm winning over steve. They actually want me to like make a connection because they want inroads with steve. 

01:17:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
But I don't know. Well, this is all he's on a first name basis. He's calling steve. We're talking about him every week. 

01:17:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know like everything is great for the brand, for Steve. 

01:17:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I have an idea which I could tell Rob off the air, but well, I actually believe we could do a show that's truly dedicated. It's the exact circles back show and it's only the tweets have to come from people in the gambling space, but truly like a post-elect, like bipartisan election tweets show from gambling sports, gambling, people, I mean like I think it will be a great show. We could even do it an emergency show, like because we record on a monday the elections on a tuesday, maybe we come back in on the th Thursday or something to do an election special. 

01:18:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, let's say an election special on Circle. 

01:18:33 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
That would be fun because we could also try and figure out the identity of that one guy on. Is it Polymarket? Who's like dumping in? 

01:18:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh man, he's got like $25 million on Trump, yeah, and there's people dumping a million at a time. 

01:18:43 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
People saying the top four are actually just the same person. I believe that maybe Because they all are depositing the same amounts and buying the same amount, and all on Trump. 

01:18:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, so I'm not going to I'll admit I do every morning see what the number is. Okay, I am hyper, just fascinated in just tracking the number. What's the number? Right now? The site that we showed that told asked someone what the money was for. Had it at Trump minus 175 this morning. Crazy, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's just shown. But part of me is like is that real Steam? Or like the Trump fans are just the gambler bro podcast boys? So that's the thing. Like is that real real? Or like it makes sense to think the people who would like trump are the dudes who listen to those podcasts? 

01:19:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
uh, like, I don't have subject matter expertise so I'm not going to pretend to know, but it feels to me very much like you have whales who are betting their opinions, like, like. 

01:19:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Like what they want to happen. I would say I don't think they could list a price on Trump that wouldn't get bet and I think for that reason Well, I would also say People would be betting this too. 

01:19:56 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I think there's a lot of people who hate Trump and would be willing to bet a lot of money. 

01:20:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So these are like the people who would just bet Floyd to lose fights. But there's residual effects too. 

01:20:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like this is a tinfoil hat now material that we're into here. But when Trump starts moving in the market towards favoring moving up to minus 130, minus 150, you know what starts? Crypto starts to skyrocket. The actual financial markets they're up as well. 

01:20:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So they're just laundering money into Trump bets? Well listen. 

01:20:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm saying if you are rich, completely loaded, you can fire a couple million dollars into Trump bets, move the market and have tens of millions of dollars in other financial sectors and reap huge benefits. 

01:20:44
So again it's like a head time market manipulation here, but I do believe that that's a distinct possibility. I'm not an expert in financial markets. I'm not an expert in political markets. This is just me from the outside looking in, saying this could theoretically happen, but it's very possible. I would say that's more likely than someone's modeled this out and has got like some sort of huge edge betting. 

01:21:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
I think it could be a liability thing, or maybe he just watched Fezzik's show and he predicted the four states. 

01:21:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You know what Fezzik's tweets got me thinking? 

01:21:17 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Football games. Yeah, okay, I'm listening. 

01:21:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Here we go. The winner it's about who makes the most chunk plays and turnovers turns the ball over the least. That's what matters in. 

01:21:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
In a lot of instances those would be highly predictive of success. Yes, is this going anywhere? 

01:21:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm just saying like it's not a hot take to say, like the point of posting I'm just saying that, obviously, of course. Yeah, I see you're constructing this tweet. 

01:21:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, it's like okay more showtime in 22 minutes. I have a unique take. You know, only these four stats matter. Turnover differential EPA per play net success rate. 

01:21:58 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
The team that scores more points will win the game. 

01:22:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Yeah, of course, okay, that makes sense we are aware that only the swing states really matter in the election. 

01:22:06 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yes, To be fair, I actually wasn't aware of that. I don't care about American politics. 

01:22:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It's not a unique hot take, though it's just information Okay. 

01:22:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But in the complete opposite. We showed the turnoff thing earlier and there's a point to be made that if he can turn just like 0.5% people watching, then that's worth it for him. His brand, the company Yep it's true, when Fezzik tweets this, is he like if I can just change, if I can get one person to see it. Or he thinks he is going to profoundly inform the public? I think is my question? 

01:22:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think the latter. Yeah, I actually think that he believes this is a. I don't think this is uh generated with the intention of causing a buzz. I believe he believes that this is a unique hot take, he's teaching a square, like me something. 

01:22:57 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
I'm going to lean towards that. Maybe it might be Because, simply based off of the swimming bets, Fezzik, I think, is slowly becoming aware, Self-aware. Maybe he's secretly watching this show I don't even know if he's watched this show yetaware. Maybe he's secretly watching this show. I don't even know if he's watched this show yet, but maybe he's secretly watching this show seeing the buzz he's generating and saying, hey, maybe I lean into that a little bit. 

01:23:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He told me he caught a little bit of this show a few weeks ago, so he's definitely watching. 

01:23:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So someone said to me do you think this show will have people tweet less dumb things? I, I laughed so hard at them. I'm like that is to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, and here's why. 

01:23:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
They're going to double down. 

01:23:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Do you think, like real celebrities have done less dumb things because TMZs existed? No, like the fact that there's someone at the airport outside your dinner hawking your car if you're in a scandal outside your front gate. Has that stopped these like real, real celebrities from doing saying the dumbest things possible? It hasn't. 

01:23:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
so I am convinced some weeks will be better than others, but we will never not have a board summer will be a little bit tougher because there's less going on, but we are always going to have a board sometimes, when there's less going, it gets them to go off into. 

01:24:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They become experts at things, things they're less experts at and that actually can allow for more. 

01:24:15 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Yeah, and I would say right now, if you want to comment down below I'm setting the line at minus 190 that we get another Fezzik tweet next week. 

01:24:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
What about TNAF? It could easily be manipulated. 

01:24:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jacob sets a lineup every week, a tweet about what I'm not taking. 

01:24:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Asher on it, a tweet about what that's true, any tweet. 

01:24:31 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Any Fezzik tweet. We were three for three so far. 

01:24:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
And T-Math, I think is three for three. T-math, Well, T-Math is like yeah. 

01:24:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean another level, yeah. 

01:24:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
She's got Honestly Listen. Here's the thing with Taylor. We have to. She is such a rocket ship that, like we, have to. 

01:24:50 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
You don't need the ship part. What? 

01:24:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You don't need the ship part, sure, but I mean, like in anything like we have to attach, even in the smallest way. 

01:25:02 - Jason Cooper (Co-host)
Agreed yeah. 

01:25:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
Oh, I probably wouldn't have put that in this week. I just it was funny that last week you were like, oh, we really had to shoehorn her in here force feed it in here to get T-Math. 

01:25:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The bar is low for her to have to get it. It's also great for SEO. I'm going to be honest with 

01:25:17 - Tyler Strunk (Announcement)
you. 

01:25:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I didn't have the right word People are searching Taylor Mathis everywhere now. 

01:25:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Sorry, it's low-hanging fruit. 

01:25:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's what I was trying to say, but didn't have the right words in that. She's the rocket ship right now and we need to. Just we're trying to like as she's shooting up, we're just trying to grab course. I'm like we have to do a best bet segment for algorithm purposes, for SEO. 

01:25:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
People are searching best bets. We have to do it. We have to call a segment best bets and talk about it and say those words in the show and put them in the outline, because that's a very commonly searched. 

01:26:02 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's the content. You probably gotta make something else, that's like rankings, just to get that term in there. That's it. 

01:26:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Co-host)
It'd be great to just you know, title it Forward Progress NFL Betting Show. But unfortunately, yeah, it just doesn't do the same amount of success, which is why we have to put Simon Hunter in the title of this episode. Bingo, that's producer Jacob's secret right there. 

01:26:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is another episode of Circle Back. If you enjoyed it, smash that like button down below on the circles off channel this week. If you enjoy hockey betting, or even if you don't and you want to learn something about hockey betting, stay tuned. Thursday 4 pm eastern. We got so many sports on this week on circles off. Appreciate all of you out there. We'll be back next week. Peace out.