00:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Here's a sneak peek of what's to come on today's episode of Circle Back. Disclosure posts and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions.
01:10
Circle back here on the Circles Off channel. It's part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Cal City. This is the show where we go through the latest and greatest content that comes from gambling Twitter, maybe sports Twitter as a whole, with some of the topics that we have on the show today. As a reminder, make sure you're subscribed to the circles off channel. If you enjoy what you see today, want to see more content, just like it. This is the hammer betting network's educational, lifestyle entertainment content division, and drop a like along the way as well if you do find yourself enjoying.
01:41
Here is the cast for today. I am your host here on circle back. My name is jacob gromenia. I am a producer and creator as well for the hammer bed network. In the bottom left corner of the screen we have mike aka mr peanut. Better professional sports better. In the bottom right corner of the screen we have co-host on the hit the books channel, which is the hammer bank networks ncaa football content division, that is, joey knish. And in the top right corner we have joining us today as the fourth storm pig storm. How you doing to me, how you doing today. Thanks so much for joining us not too bad.
02:15 - Storm Pig (Host)
I'm having some mic issues, so if I sound like I'm in a fishbowl I apologize to everybody listening well, anyone who's familiar with the hammer and the network has dealt with many very bad Knish mic performances.
02:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
so I think we'll be okay for today. I think we'll be able to soldier on for this one, but we'll jump into things here. You may have seen from the title and thumbnail a lot of focus today on ESPN, and things have not been going well for ESPN in the last week or so. We have breaking news that came from many sources, but we have the tweet here from Joe Pompliano, who said Breaking ESPN and Penn Entertainment are ending their sports betting partnership after signing a 10-year $2 billion deal in 2023. Espn bet will officially shut down next month with eight years left of the initial agreement.
03:06
Ryan Butler, who provides a lot of the updates on the sports betting industry, says that ESPN was a massive revenue loser that could never compete with DraftKings or FanDuel and for Disney. The cash payments that Penn gave to use the ESPN brand were a boost, but the scrutiny lending its name to a sports book means ditching ESPN bet is a net positive, and the gambling scandal associated that ESPN bet sorry ESPN as a whole is covering did not help things as well. Jared Smith said that Penn lost a billion dollars in two years partnering with ESPN bet, per their earnings report today. And the biggest winner today is stool president. Uh, which presidente? Which is um dave portnoy, who did purchase back the rights for penn entertainment. Uh, further down we have taylor cabby, who talked about essentially, this being further evidence that, even with a plus brand recognition, people are finding it very, very difficult, difficult to compete with DraftKings and FanDuel in the sportsbook market in the US.
04:08
And finally, more from Ryan Butler. Talk on DraftKings now becoming the exclusive official sportsbook and odds provider of ESPN, which was announced shortly after this happened. An ESPN bet is not going to go away completely. If you do have an account there, it will now morph into the score bet, which, if you are in Canada, like myself, you are already familiar with. Okay, lot to decipher. I brought up a lot of stuff already, but, kanish, I wanted to start with you on this one. Maybe you want to rain down a little bit harder on ESPN. Give us your thoughts on everything that's going on here.
04:46 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean I don't want to tell on ESPN like I think this is like a pen gaming.
04:47
I mean they're making Jason Robbins look like, uh, you know, like Norm Rockefeller or something like with it with these moves here where like, yeah, you pay Portnoy a bunch of money, then you give him his company back for free, then you do this massive deal with, uh, espn not only, and then also you acquire the score and let's go. I'm gonna go in the weeds here because the other guys will probably have better takes than you. Just, generally, in-house ESPN bet was still using Camby as an odds provider for their kiosk and their counter acquisition, because they could never get the score platform and the tech stack that they bought to work in the casinos. So the kiosk and the casinos you're still having to pay candy as a third party operator to provide jobs there. And so it's like if I go into a casino and I look out, I got my espn bet app and it's like, wait, this line says this, but I still go to the key. It's going to read something different. So I think they got screwed on all three deals the barstool, the espn and acquiring all the score, mobile stuff.
05:50
That was crap. Um, I don't know. I don't know how long pen gaming I mean if you were a heavy investor like I just absolute disaster in this company. Um, and I I don't know the other thing. I thought great point by uh, what was his name? Taylor? This is like the fox bet thing all over again like brand wrecking, like big names using your book that doesn't matter at all, like there's no like reputable, like, oh, like I remember fox bet was on the nfl on fox and fox bet would have like six dollars in handle every month.
06:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So it's like that has absolutely zero to do in terms of brand partnership with who's using your sports book, interesting take there, and people just want a good product at the end of the day. I remember the infancy of the hammer, where there was a little bit of struggles I think that's been said publicly before and what we wanted to do initially was bring in a lot of big names to help give more credibility to the brand, and when we started focusing more on the content, with less going towards big brand names and big names in the industry, not to be disrespectful to them, that's when we started to see more success. So a good example of that here, storm, let's go to you.
07:11 - Storm Pig (Host)
What are your thoughts on everything going on with ESPN, Bet and Penn? I'll come at this from a perspective of personal experience. We have two partners there right now that went over a month without response after getting their account suspended on a cash out and we had to take the cases to gaming in their respective states. It hasn't gotten anywhere. I was trying to look it up. I didn't get to it in time. I know that tunes had a similar issue with them as well. I think uh his turned into trying to get their cash at a brick and mortar location and some of the guys he uh worked with didn't like the responses they got and it escalated into the police showing up.
07:52
Not surprised that this happened. Obviously, if that's how you treat your customers, whether they win or lose, you're not going to stick around long. I know that the app itself was horrendous to use. The website was horrendous to use. I didn't know that they were. Can't be that that's interesting.
08:11
I don't know what brick and mortar locations they had themselves attached to, but I think pretty much anybody who pays attention knew that they were doomed from the start and it makes you wonder how a company like Penn could throw so much money at something like that.
08:31
It's just, it's mind-boggling to me that you know this went through boardrooms and approvals and you know C-level guys and they said, yeah, this is a great idea, we're going to crush it, we're going to compete with FanDuel and DraftKings here.
08:47
Going on to the guy who said that he thinks Underdog is the one with the best chance I don't think anybody has a chance. I don't know if Taylor has some sort of association with Underdog and that's why he plugged them there or something, but I don't see how you could say anybody other than like polymarket or calci and I know their prediction markets at this point, but I don't see how anybody has any sort of brand recognition or ability to acquire market share that could compete with draft kings and vandal at this point. And for all of us that's horrible, right horrible to not have competition out there. The more they consolidate this stuff, the less usable these sites are going to become like for for guys that win, and it's just a poor outlook in general so as far as like espn shift towards the score bet, that I believe that their their odds were provided in-house for the for the app.
09:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But just I I also didn't know that in casinos and over-the-counter they were getting their odds provided by Canby, which is interesting. I find the score bet is a really good interface. So I think anyone who does have ESPN bet might see a bit of a better product after the shift there and you'll still get, I think, the same odds. So I think for the users there won't be much of a difference. In fact there might be improvements. But let's go to you, mike give us your take on everything going on with this situation.
10:11 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Well, first storm you said that you didn't think anyone had a chance besides Couchy and Polymarket. The fact that underdog is getting this CFTC license or whatever, do you think maybe that is what gives them a chance to compete, if they're able to integrate that and kind of get in markets where their other books aren't able to?
10:30 - Storm Pig (Host)
I don't think their user base is as big as everybody thinks it is and I don't think there's as much of a crossover from the type of you know, contests or whatever they call it that they do and to just mainstream sports. Better, I think everybody's way too optimistic about their chances.
10:49 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Yeah, I would generally say all these companies, kind of speaking to what Joey said, at the end they add all these you know people who are endorsing and they make all these giant partnership deals. And time after time we figure out that people just want a nice UI that they can use, something that is pretty easy to work with and kind of makes sense to them. So that's why they go back to FanDuel and DraftKings. They find familiarity in those books and they think it's good. I agree with Storm on the consolidation point.
11:17
People argue over, you know, is it good if books have universal limits? Is it good if you know more books are sharp, et cetera. I think the single worst thing that can happen to bettors is consolidation in the market Different books offering different products allowing more opportunities that are mispriced. Whether you're an originator, looking to kind of pick to get the best price embedded to a low theoretical hold, or if you're a top down, better looking to kind of steam chase and find price and descriptions, I think that consolidation is really the worst thing that can happen and unfortunately, you know, when you have a business that is operated digitally like this, it makes a lot of sense that consolidation happens because everybody starts to flock to the best app. The best app gets more money to reinvest in that app and it's kind of a self-fulfilling cycle.
12:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
At some point, so what's going to stop this process from happening? Is it going to be prediction markets, like? I feel like, like, especially just being in Ontario when sports betting became regulated, it would kind of seem like this is where it was going to trend towards. Eventually it would just be two of these sort of like, like two different monopolies, I guess, in drafting and FanDuel, eventually consolidating all these other sports books. Mike, do you have any thoughts on what could stop that from happening? Can anything stop that from happening?
12:37 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Something certainly can. I would say, anytime you're dealing with technology, you should always, you know, keep an eye on the unforeseen path. So I don't know what's going to kind of displace these things, but it looked like Google would never be replaced. And, oh my gosh, google has such an advantage on search they're going to dominate. Then chat GPT comes out. It's a new invention. It comes up Obviously. This is a little bit. It's not quite as tech bound when you're talking about sports betting apps. But nobody would have thought Koushi or Polymarket or these prediction markets would have had a chance like two years ago, and then all of a sudden they popped up. So anytime you're talking about tech, anytime you're talking about regulation, I would say just don't overfit your prediction to what's currently happening. But it certainly doesn't look great right now, but who knows?
13:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Interesting If you guys are enjoying the show so far but you know who knows Interesting If you guys are enjoying the show. So far as we move into our next topic, please make sure you have already hit that like button and again consider subscribing to the Circles Live channel. We're live for Circle Back on Mondays at 1 pm. We have this prerecorded show Fridays at 8 am. We have bonus educational content, interviews and other stuff that come out Wednesdays at 1 pm. We have plenty of content to keep you busy throughout the week here on the channel.
13:43
But it was already a pretty bad look for ESPN with ESPN bet fizzling out, and I think it got even worse for ESPN with this promo that they started running throughout the week for an app called Solitaire Cash, and it started for me with this tweet from Stephen A Smith. He says you can't beat my score. Nobody can Download Solitaire Cash, enter the Beat Stephen tournament. And then asked people to post screenshots and then was basically promoting this Solitaire app where you can play games for real money. There's risk involved in that, but it's a Solitaire app where you can play in actual tournaments with other people to win money.
14:25
And then there were people like Mina Kimes who were responding to it with a hashtag ad saying getting in practice for the game instead of during it, because this promo for Stephen A Smith comes from him actually playing Solitaire on his phone during a game in the NBA Finals while the play was going on, which caught a lot of heat, we talked about it on this show and then we had a lot of replies from other people within ESPN, like Dan Orlovsky, laura Rutledge and also Mina Kimes, again using hashtag ad and replying to Stephen A Smith Overall like to me, it just seems like a pretty bad look for ESPN. Mike, we'll go back to you and start with you on this topic.
15:11 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Is it that bad of a look? Is it something that we shouldn't care about? How do you feel about this? It's mind-boggling to me that we've gone so quickly into just not giving a shit how things look is for ours optics and just willing to do anything to get the bag. I understand, maybe you can say it's always been this way and you know these people have always been kind of doing whatever they need. They just did it quieter.
15:26
It seems like now nobody like has any kind of uh, you know, standards that they try to apply to and try to carry over from one facet to the next. To have everybody tweet this, and I don't know if they were made to. So you know, I don't want to judge on them too far individually, but they have to. Yeah, I think they were made to. Yeah, I, well, I understand, but it's, I don't know I at some level, like doesn't it feel gross? Like isn't it wearing away at the long term value of ESPN if everyone knows that you're just a complete shill for whatever comes out? And I don't know, like I guess there used to be more of a secrecy about it or some kind of idea of journalistic integrity, and now it's shilling out for whatever kind of?
16:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
dollar you can get. Well, we wouldn't know anything about journalistic integrity here at the hammer betting network but Kanish, so you kind of laugh in there. Give us your take on it, yeah.
16:16 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean ESPN. It's funny that it happens the same day. It's like, oh, we're getting out of the ESPN bet business and now you know we're going to shill uh, uh, like a solitaire thing that I don't even is it just like? This is just a Stephen A Smith is like a, a partner in it, right In, like the company where I don't even know if it's affiliated with ESPN. But let's use uh, stephen A to. I don't know, maybe he's throwing some kickbacks to Damina and Orlovsky in that. I don't know, we're going.
16:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I guess we don't know exactly how the money's being distributed. It's a sweepstakes company.
16:50 - Storm Pig (Host)
That's actually what it is.
16:51 - Joey Knish (Host)
And that Stephen A, I think, has like some investment Right, so that I think that's what I saw in like what was in the chat earlier, and so, like he's now using I don't know the ESPN personalities to bump this, I mean I guess we're in that.
17:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So I did note that Stephen A's initial tweet didn't have the hashtag ad. You do have to, legally. You do have to disclose if you're being paid to promote something, and Stephen A didn't have it, but the rest of the ESPN staff did have that. So I found that a little bit weird, but that does make sense to me. Stephen A has a stake in the company, therefore doesn't have to disclose it that it's an ad storm. Yeah, you talked about a little bit already, but do you want to go any deeper on this one?
17:40 - Storm Pig (Host)
yeah, I had a couple of thoughts on this one. So um isaac linked the article about the parent company of this app called papaya gaming and they are in a lawsuit currently where this particular app they were being sued for pitting bots against human players, so they were cheating their customers. As part of the lawsuit, they were being sued by a competitor where they basically stole their source code and their entire business idea. That was another lawsuit they had pending against them. Then one of the craziest things was you looking at the numbers, it's like the company has made over $700 million and I'm just looking at this like man.
18:30
We are all morons for not starting a sweepstakes casino. Right, and apparently it's just totally legal, you're allowed to do it. So I don't understand how that works, but I guess you can defraud people and call it sweepstakes and you know, just go retire on an island somewhere and make more money than you ever could grinding out sports betting. The other thing that was crazy to me about this is the other people that are part of ESPN tweeting about this like this would be like if one of the guys who worked for me, like tally or flounder somebody starts tweeting like hey, go play on this sports book, when we all know it's like a scammer. Right that? That? That's how I equate this in my mind. How is, how are the uppers at ESPN looking at this? And OK with this that, that their employees are just out there essentially shilling for what they've admitted in this lawsuit? You know, at one point at least, was a scam where they were defrauding their customers.
19:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, I've seen a lot of chatter online in my research about this that when you get really good on this app and you actually start making money, you get limited or you get put in unfair matchups, like you described. So not a great company to be representing, especially people affiliated with ESPN. Mike, it looked like you wanted to add something there. Do you have something here?
19:50 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Well, it's just funny. They really start to cut people off when they're good at it. So it's not affiliated with ESPN. They decided to cut ESPN back just a time ago. You know, you only have so many companies that are starting to cut off winners before people start to question things. But yeah, I, I think it's. I would guess that ESPN probably has some deal with Stephen A's production crew or something that you know. Deal with Stephen A's production crew or something that you know. I don't know how all those higher level business things worked, but I would guess the ESPN employees, like I would guess, espn is asking them to do it. No, storm, don't you? Or you think that they individually were doing this?
20:25 - Storm Pig (Host)
I don't know how the clearance would work in a situation like that, like if Stephen A is like, hey, help me out, go and tweet this, or or does that have to be cleared by the higher ups? Stephen A has?
20:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
his own show. Now I wonder if it's more affiliated with that rather than ESPN, and Stephen A has a lot of control, I think, over his own content nowadays. I think that was part of his latest agreement with ESPN, so I didn't come into this segment thinking about it like this, but now it kind of makes sense that it's being pushed more from steven nays side rather than espn coming at them.
20:57 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
So yeah, he owns a production company that, like, has the rights to, like they are leasing, essentially, his show. It's kind of like the macfie deal. So, uh, you know, I think that he is kind of. He has a different set of rules than everybody else and maybe even has the ability to ask for sponsorship from ESPN employees, would be my guess.
21:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Again, this is all just guessing, I think in the end, it's just a pretty bad look for ESPN, whether ESPN is affiliated with this or not. They maybe could have stepped in, because this is a pretty bad look for them. Mike, you opened this segment by saying that, you know, is there? Basically, is there no shame in just chasing the bag and doing whatever? Well, we definitely here at Circles Off, don't just want to work with anybody. We only work with companies that we truly believe in, which is why we are proudly presented by CalSheet. We talked about it in the first segment as well. What can compete with some of these conglomerate, humongous recreational books? Potentially, it's prediction markets. Just like CalSheet, it's a company that we stand by and we think you should get involved with as well. The link is in the description below to sign up to Cal Street today. Get involved with prediction markets. They're growing at a very rapid rate, but it still feels like they are in their infancy. You could use the QR code on screen right now to sign up as well, and it does support the show. You find a lot of unique markets and a lot of markets that you are more accustomed to seeing as well.
22:13
Now we can move into our next topic, and this one caused quite a bit of a stir on gambling Twitter. It first started with a tweet from Charlie uh Balelo, who said Americans bet over $140 billion on sports last year, which is more than they spent on movies, books, concerts and sports tickets combined. Aaron at Blond Aaron or Blonded Aaron, excuse me says sports betting is genuinely a sign of low IQ, and you can't change my mind. James Holzhauer, who had a very good run on Jeopardy, who is a professional sports better showcased, quote tweeted and just by showcasing his Jeopardy profile, essentially showing his 31 games in a row win streak, which was a little bit funny. It's kind of like I don't really know a ton about his gambling prowess, but it does feel like.
23:07
I'm trying to think of a good metaphor for this, but just because this is okay, here's a good one. Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of university and found a lot of success in business, so the dumb kid in your high school used that as motivation to drop out of high school or drop out of college. Just because, well, mark Zuckerberg can do it, then why can't I do it? And also another tweet here from Ian McBets. God forbid, a guy bets a couple bucks so he might feel something for a few minutes in this cold, heartless, meaningful world, still feeling the effects of some unfortunate sports events over the last week. I'm sure, ian, sorry, I'm feeling it too with you this time. It's not just me making fun of the Falcons this time, but on sports betting, low IQ Storm. I'm sure you disagree.
23:49 - Storm Pig (Host)
But what do you think about this subject? Well, first we'll start with the original tweet. I was having this conversation with somebody who doesn't knows what I do for a living but isn't really involved at all. Um, we're talking over the weekend. They were saying it's pretty crazy that kids now don't drink, they don't really go out, they're not using drugs, they gamble. Um, so that statistic 148 billion doesn't surprise me at all and that I assume that's just from retail books. So maybe double or triple that number. Um, my favorite response to this tweet from aaron was uh, people who say you can't change my mind is a sign of low IQ.
24:35
Obviously, it seems like maybe she was joking a little bit, but I found it funny because earlier this morning I'll pull up the exact message Somebody who is very, very big and very, very rich in sports sent me some stupid messages this morning and I forwarded them to his partner and I said is this guy stupid? And he responded by IQ standards, we all are, so the timing of that is funny, right, it's just, you know, low IQ. That discussion it's. It just seems like rage bait. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but it seemed to work. It got a lot of engagement. I think I don't think it's that big of a deal, but it seemed to work. It got a lot of engagement.
25:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think I? I don't think it was rage bait. I just think it depends on what environment you're in, like in a university environment, like the type of people that are betting on sports, um, and recreationally, a lot of them are not going to be doing very well and we know, like we know, this is like. What is it 99? I mean, I'm sure this is a conservative estimate. 99% of people lose when they bet on, or are losing betting on sports. Kanish, did you want to add anything here? Do you feel like the board players are people of low IQ?
25:44 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean, I, you know what I'll play the devil's advocate here. I'd probably say in a lot of scenarios, as you kind of alluded to right there, that she's right, and especially if you're on a college campus I don't know, I didn't, I don't, I even I was just trying to find her profile to like see, you know her age range. But like, yeah, if you're surrounded by a bunch of frat brothers who only want to talk about, like their sgps, yeah, like I can see how. And especially like if you're a woman who doesn't give a shit about sports at all and it's like, oh, I gotta hear this guy. So I think in our segment of the world that, yes, I know a bunch of people that you know bet sports that are like some of the smartest people I've ever met. For your normie, if I can put my you know myself in the shoes of like, uh, I don't know a college-age girl out there who's surrounded by a bunch of 24, so they're not far off the college age.
26:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, there you go.
26:38 - Joey Knish (Host)
So she's probably like these fucking idiots all they want to do is, like, lose money on sports betting all day. I can kind of see it. So if I can kind of see it from her perspective, then uh, yeah, maybe you like it's not like she's going to bet bash and being like, oh yeah, there's, uh, there's, billy walters, azoko, no, she's seeing a bunch of uh, you know, frat bro friends. That can you know. Like, uh, you know, don't even want to look at her because they're too busy sweating out a eight leg parlay yeah, my intro to to betting apps was when I was in my first year of university and we were on.
27:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I was on the soccer team. We're on our way back from a road trip and one of the seniors in the back of the bus betting on each, each point in a tennis match, and so every next point he was betting on who would win the next point. So maybe she does have some justification to this, mike. What do you think?
27:29 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
I think anytime you have a large population of people, it's similar to like oh, this fan base is blank. It's like I don't know, some are, some aren't. They're probably more similar to the general population than you want to think. I would guess that she is probably not talking with a lot of advantage players. She's not talking with a lot of plus EV bettors. I'm sure in her circumstance the population she's dealing with she's 100 percent right. I thought your point about James being the Mark Zuckerberg comp is very good. Yes, this one guy is very intelligent, good at sports betting. I don't think that him and the sophomore at LSU that's dumping money away betting on SEC games are quite the same. So, yeah, I understand it from her perspective, the people she's dealing with I would guess she's probably actually a hundred percent on the mark.
28:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, we'll move into the next topic. Well, actually, give us your thoughts in the comments down below. Is sports betting a sign of low intelligence? Cause? You know what, typically, if I do talk to somebody about sports betting and the things they ask me, I go, yeah, this guy's probably an idiot. So I guess there is some grounds to it, in my case scenario at the least. But, like I said, we'll move into our next topic, which is about court siding.
28:38
This comes from Golden Pants Golden Pants 013 on Twitter, saying going out of space today. I don't think court siders are evil, nor do I think they have any obligation to stop, but I think they have interesting impacts on the exchange ecosystem which are worth discussing. Aware, this isn't as catchy of a tagline, though, because he was featuring on some content with at Hive Live underscore Storm. I wanted to go to you first on this one. What's your take on court siding? Is it an acceptable form of betting? Do you think that this is where we kind of go too far in taking advantage of a sportsbook? What do you think?
29:12 - Storm Pig (Host)
Why would you go to me first on this topic, I wonder it's random well, a very important distinction with what you said.
29:22
um, you said does it go too far? When you're betting against a sportsbook, and in the context of a golden pants saying he's talking about exchange, you're right to feel bad about taking money from the sports book. Right, they have the edge. If your tech isn't good enough, if your traders aren't good enough, fair game right, Anything stands in my eyes. I've made a living doing stuff like that for a long time. It gets interesting and there's been a lot of interesting discussion on Twitter about this recently, where people are probably saying more than they should publicly. I think, Mike, you've contributed to some of the conversation. Yourself probably said more than you should at certain points. But court-siding, when you're talking about an exchange, is interesting because you're betting against another peer You're not betting against a sportsbook. Interesting because you know you're betting against another peer. You're not betting against a sports book. So, right, I I do think, um, you have to approach it differently. Um, most of the time when you're betting at a certain level, you're going to know most of those peers that you're betting against. So you need to weigh the ethics of that. You know you're no longer taking money from jason robbins. You know're no longer taking money from Jason Robbins. You know I could be taking money from Mike or Fluff or somebody like that, and I don't necessarily like the idea of that.
31:04
I think most of what Golden Pants is discussing here is that it's just the impact on the exchange ecosystem. The bottom line is that nobody wants to offer live liquidity because they're fearing courtsiders, essentially, and that harms the product. So you know there's I've been consulting with some of the exchanges about. You know how do we see more live markets without everybody essentially shitting their pants about getting courtsided and there's no right answer? We could spend a whole episode talking about this, but it's tough and I like that.
31:42
You know he I guess that guy used like the clickbait of saying courtsiders are evil or whatever, and he, Golden Pants, distinguished quickly Like they have no obligation to stop or anything. I just I don't think anybody has the right answer yet and I don't know what it's going to take to get there. My personal opinion is you know you throw in a delay for everybody because it's a prediction market. You can't say, oh well, this guy's courtsiding, so we're going to put a delay on him, like DraftKings or FanDuel can. So again, it's tough. I don't think anybody has the right answer yet.
32:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Mike, what do you think on this one? It was good you made the distinction there. Storm on it being exchanges, because that's where I've seen most tweets about court status coming up recently. What's your take on this one, mike?
32:26 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Everything's fair in love and war, they say. So I think the same goes for exchanges. We can't have a system where you're saying, well, let's rely on one another to not pass post each other to do, you know, whatever situation, angle, shoe all these things, you're never going to get a situation where everybody agrees to the same kind of ethical bounds. So everybody is going to go up to whatever the exchange allows. So I, if those are the terms of engagement, those are the terms of engagement.
32:54 - Storm Pig (Host)
But not to interrupt. But you would rather courtside Citadel or Susquehanna than courtside one of your buddies. Obviously there's no way to know.
33:05 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
For sure. I'm not even saying that there isn't something you know, kind of morally slightly wrong with it. If you're courtsiding, what I'm saying is you'll never be able to get everybody to agree on a standard that they think is fair. And if you can court-side, somebody will. So basically, if we're going to all agree on rules to play with, I think the rules should just be whatever is allowed at the exchange and that's what you have to go with because there's really no other option. Otherwise you're going to have people who are kind of picked off by the people who are willing to do the picking off. So it's really up to the exchange to set the rules, because otherwise it's going to devolve into whatever they're like. There's no other option than if the exchange kind of making the rules and people having to go by those rules.
33:50
So I think that court sighting is. Is it great to have it happen? No, Do I blame the individuals? It's kind of like foul baiting in the NBA. Do I want to see people foul bait? No, Do I blame the players for trying to get the foul or do I blame, you know, the rest for awarding it? So I think it's up to the exchanges to stop it if they want to stop it or otherwise, I think their live liquidity is going to be pretty, you know, suspect until then, until they figure out a way to kind of protect people who are offering markets that way Good example, I think there Kanish, give your take on this one.
34:24 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean, I think, just this is going to like, be blunt, but like, if you're a market maker, I don't know if I would be doing live tennis, like at an exchange, like by just like the solution.
34:35
I know that's like I think as the more prevalent this becomes, where people are like openly tweeting about it, the more you'd be at risk of getting courtsided if you're going to offer that.
34:48
So, from just from a market make perspective, I just would like I would not be setting markets for live tennis um, unless I felt confident that that I was not getting, you know, like that selection of people getting a market. And if I had any intuition I would just not do it. Maybe that's the solution at for day, and I know that you know calci and everybody wants to offer it um, but if that's going to be, I think, the more prevalent it becomes, then the only solution is just to not have it available or not put out of market for it. And if you are then kind of to pb's point, a little bit of kind of you, like you know the risks here, like that's the same. But I know the risk of like if I go on there and put that someone could be courtsiding me. So I'm not going to do it I see a lot of this.
35:34 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
There's people talk about like oh, this is an opportunity, there's going to be liquidity available. You know I've gotten frustrated with other people in the past and talk about it. What I think people fail to like, understand or to account for is that these things are dynamic and they change. If people are getting courtsided and picked off, they're not going to just continue to dump money into something. As they're giving up $40,000 fills to someone court-siding, the money will go away. Edges don't just last. There's not a free money machine that just exists at all times. So if these things are getting taken advantage, people will close off the advantage and close out the edge. So it's a cat and mouse game. It's back and forth, the idea that like, oh, this is working now, what a great opportunity. Well, it's just not going to work for forever. I mean, maybe you can get it in now, before you know, during this period of time, but like people are going to adjust to this kind of new situation Before we go into our next topic, just want to talk about our college football channel.
36:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
We have at the Hammerbag Network live every and friday at 5 pm eastern time with brad powers and co-host joey knish. Knish, I didn't prepare you for this, so let's see what you got.
36:39 - Joey Knish (Host)
Tell the people about, hit the books you don't need to prepare the greatest promo college football better in the history of guy, in the history of content. On this maybe I could have used a little bit of a heads up, but you know what? Forget about it, fr's baby. Five o'clock, live Me and the godfather of CFB, brad Powers, giving you the best college football content on the internet. You don't need AI, you don't need anybody out there else telling you what to bet. Come see it live at five on Friday and a little bonus on Saturdays. Now we got halftime shows too, so come join us for the halftime show, the Saturday games at noon, the two best in the business. I'm not going to tell you who's number, one or two, you make the decision. Come join us Friday. Hit the books, baby. Joey Kane, bp, all right.
37:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
A little rough at the start but you figured it out, you got into it. Maybe my fault for not preparing you in advance, but you can go to the link in the description to subscribe to the hit the books channel and check out everything else we have in the hammer bag network. While you're down there, you can comment on the court signing debate whether it's okay at a sports book, whether it's okay for at a prediction market. Give us any of your thoughts, because we like to feature comments on the show from the previous week, which is exactly what we're going to be doing now. Three comments from the previous show that I brought up for today.
37:57
First one comes from John Fressix. Hopefully I said that right. It says the Otani intentional walk discussion reminds me of around 20 years ago, of a similar conversation about Barry Bonds, but at one point he had over 100 intentional walks in a single season Absolute insanity. And thankfully I think we've gotten to the point where you can just intentionally walk someone without having to throw four pitches and waste time. But storm, uh, we didn't have you on the show last week. But do you want to weigh in at all on the intentional walk debate? Is it bad? Should we allow it? Any thoughts you have?
38:31 - Storm Pig (Host)
I'm in favor of anything that speeds up the game. What were the arguments I'm curious against?
38:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
so the blue jays intensely walked otani four times in extra innings of game three of the world series and people and and mike solution which I thought was interesting was that if you intensely walk somebody for a second time or you walk somebody for a second time, they get two bases instead of one base. But overall people wanted to take away the intentional walk rule because they want to see hitters actually hit in big games uh, I don't see anything wrong with it.
38:59 - Storm Pig (Host)
Right, there's that comment. Didn't mention barry bonds was intentionally walk with the bases loaded before, right, if you choose to do that, that's your choice as a team. I I don't really have an issue with the intentional walk rule. I I think that's kind of I don't know, maybe that makes me like a boomer that I want to stick with tradition on that one, but I think that's kind of one of those things that I don't want to see change about the game.
39:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I mean it's strategy and, like you said, it's advantageous, Like if you get the guy in first. In Game 7 of the World Series, Vlade got intensely walked to first. Bobachet hits a home run. Put the Blues up 3-0.
39:36 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
I want to see a bunch of nerds do their analytics, decide when it's good to walk somebody. I want to watch Shohei hit a dinger. Come on, what are we doing here?
39:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, I mean, if you take.
39:49 - Storm Pig (Host)
I always like the discussion of like okay, but if you're the next guy up, it's like okay, well, that's a huge F. You to me Like I want to go hit a dinger now. You know, then we get into the motivation in sports conversation, so I really don't have an issue.
40:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Kevin Euclid, former Boston Red Sox player, said he loved when David Ortiz got intentionally walked right before him. He said it gave him such an adrenaline rush to go after Ortiz knowing that they walked him to face him instead. So again, I agree, I'm fine with where it is, but if they were going to change it, Mike's proposition of two bases instead would come up. But I think there'd just be too much at play there and I think it's fine currently where it is. Next comment comes from BrianD5921, who says George really needs to adopt some sort of Kelly staking system. He fires the same on a minus 110 and a 60 to 1. I kind of hadn't really noticed this, but he seems to just be happy to take these humongous prices at the same sort of stake as he would for just like an average money line bet. When it comes to coach of the year markets, Kanisha, have you noted anything like this? Do you think somebody needs to intervene here?
40:58 - Joey Knish (Host)
Well, I would say, if you're hoping for George to implement Kelly staking on his bets, I don't know. I feel like the result of that might be worse than what's going on now.
41:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's true. That's true. Actually I didn't think about that either. I'm saying probably leave him with the old flat, the Kelly stake, and told me to bet fucking $10,000. Yeah, right.
41:18 - Joey Knish (Host)
The line should be 14 and it's three and he bet you know 85.2% of his role. Probably not the way to go.
41:25 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
I need to add Mike, do you think his mom's inheritance is included in the bankroll when he does the Cali cow? I, I forget. I think we'd have to decide.
41:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think he said indirectly his net worth was $50,000 once. I'm pretty sure he said that once. I don't think the inheritance is factoring into that when, unfortunately, the inheritance does kick in, maybe it will become part of the stake and maybe we'll see the units go up. I don't know what we'll see on that one and further on this topic. Last comment, cloudy Lemon Drop said great episode. But I don't think LeFleur at 600-1, let alone 60-1, is a good bet.
42:06
We talked about adding on to the coach of the year. Positions Kanish. Do you want to say something here?
42:15 - Joey Knish (Host)
Well they conditions, um, can you want to say something here? Well, they lost to the panthers after last week's show. Uh, so not not great for the coach, you know. So I think, uh, cloudy lemon one, joey k zero, because uh that that coach of the year bet's probably dead now yeah, absolutely dead.
42:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, next topic on the show this was a tough one to see. We actually had to verify. We had a few people who had to go in and verify this was true, so that we could talk about it on the show today. Bet365 in certain areas of Europe, I believe, but for sure in Austria. For sure in Austria.
42:48
You can now deposit into Bet365 using Klarna, which is a payment service where you can sorry I'm not explaining this correctly, but you can delay your payments. You can pay in installments, that's the word. You can pay in installments and you can deposit up to $2,000 using Klarna. Now onto bet three, six, five, so you're able to pay that in installments. People like to use this on things like on on Amazon or if you're buying something expensive, like top of my head, like an engagement ring, you can defer these payments in installments. But obviously, when it comes to a sports book, this might be seen as problematic. Aw at aw, bets x says surely not with the laughing emoji, because this seems pretty crazy. You know, sports books often preach that they are very much in tune with responsible gaming, but then you see something like this. I've kind of given away my opinion on it but knish. What's your opinion on it?
43:46 - Joey Knish (Host)
I mean, I'll be honest with you, I had no idea what this was earlier, when it got sent in the chat I had never heard it.
43:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Hopefully I explained it well enough. I know I didn't do a great job.
43:56 - Joey Knish (Host)
I hope you explained it well enough I was like I don't know what that. I don't know what the big deal is about this. I don't know, is this just like, uh, you know, a venmo for british people or something? So, uh, yeah, I would say probably not the best uh for responsible gaming. So next time isaac's on, we can have him go in on mike, you have anything?
44:16 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
to add another example of is there no shame left? I mean, this is like in the sopranos, where he lets the guy you know bet into the thing and then he's like I knew I was always going to eventually take the.
44:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Your car, your business.
44:28 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Yeah, I think that they're like you know, just go ahead, dump the money in Bet 365. We'll own your house. Who cares? You got an illness.
44:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Let's take advantage of it. You know there's a million things wrong with it. Well, I mean sorry, bet365 isn't taking your house, because for bet365 it's like they're getting the money, clarna's giving them the money. It's clarna that's coming after you to get the money after the fact.
44:51 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
That's where it's the mob. Your house goes to clarna, not bet365, when you're homeless, you'll have that knowing in your heart. You'll at least get that kind of satisfaction. Maybe that's maybe that's Bet365.
45:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
We didn't know there was any payment issues. We thought they would have just paid up front. We got all the money from Klarna and it's up to them to determine whether or not there's an issue at hand. So maybe that's kind of the mental loophole that Bet365 is currently going with Storm. Do you want to add anything to this?
45:17 - Storm Pig (Host)
Quick Google search of Klarna interest rate says their rates range from zero to 36 apr. 36 apr is in line with a street loan and I have seen plenty of people you know screw their lives up taking street loans to cover gambling. That's I. I don't see how this is any different.
45:37 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
It's disgusting they're probably, uh, gonna tend more towards the 36 than the zero, I would guess, for these 365 yeah, these.
45:45 - Storm Pig (Host)
These would be considered high risk. You know payments, so they're definitely going to be on the higher end, right?
45:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I. I would strongly advise anyone watching please do not deposit into a sportsbook by paying in installments with something like clarinet, please, please. Isaac's not here, he can't, he can't preach, so I, I will do it. I will do it for him. You don't need to gamble, you don't have to go through this process. Uh, all right, we can move into the next topic then. Uh, we have one that came. This is kind of a tough to this. It's like it all started with this.
46:23
There was a bit of a public spat that occurred between two people who have been interviewed previously on this channel. So it all started with this tweet from Andrew Gombis, who is a MMA originator, and he had a conversation with Frank White about what the goal is of an account that you get for sports betting. What the goal is of an account that you get for sports betting Is it to just maximize your earnings immediately, even at the expense of losing account, or is it prolonging that account for as long as possible? Then there was a bit of sorry, I have these out of order here, forgive me. The right side is the first one, where Frank White said that the main objective is keeping accounts open as long as possible, whereas Porter BA analytics, who has been on circle back before and, like I said, has been interviewed previously, says that he argues the opposite. He wants to maximize his earnings right away and do as much damage as early as possible.
47:16
There was disagreement from Adam at the Beagle bets, who again has been interviewed on this channel previously, saying that, for sure, for the person turning the account over to you, they have different incentives. That's when there was a bit of beef that started. Porter said that the easiest counter argument is if this was true, I'd have no account and you'd have all of them. But here's the key you have the same amount of knowledge as to how the business part works as to dub club touts. And then Adam said what a remarkably stupid answer in so many ways. So then porter threatened to cut off people working with the beagle bet, which I wasn't really sure what he was trying to do there, and that's kind of where porter kept going with it.
47:58
Adam then quote tweeted a response from porter saying that eventually he was going to start doing that by saying what are are you going to do? Not give me $200 fills on Super Bowl props anymore. How will I ever recover from this? So I think a pretty good reply there. Storm, you had some thoughts in our group chat about this. Let's lead off with you. What was your take on this public spat?
48:19 - Storm Pig (Host)
um, I don't agree with porter taking things public and you know I told him I said you are an unrelenting asshole and I I think he's fine with you know playing that role. Um, he certainly is very successful in sports betting. I don't think you have to be that much of a dick. Adam is a super nice guy for anybody who knows him and very soft-spoken too. So for him to get in a spat like that was kind of surprising. But I guess Porter could bring that out in anybody.
49:00
We've certainly had our own disagreements about things in the past. I do agree with the baseline of his argument. Before this whole tip for tat thing started talking about the account stuff, I'll toot my own horn here for a second. What he said is if your argument was true, I'd have no accounts. You'd have all of them can say, and I can't say why. I know that. You know our group has more pph accounts than anybody and you know the type of stuff we bet is similar or even probably considered even less desirable than some of the stuff that porter bets. And I disagree.
49:37
I actually replied in that thread. I said something along the lines of like trying to preserve PPH accounts doesn't work, like if you want to bet major market stuff, you can bet on sharp books, you can bet on reduced juice books, you can bet on prediction markets and exchanges. Now you can find places where maybe you play over a fish and you get some kickback. There's no reason to play stuff like that. That people would consider preserving an account into minus 110 lines on a book where there's also counterparty risk most of the time. I've seen guys back in the day when we used to bet baseball right, these guys would have pretty high variance. So say, you lose four weeks in a row and you pay a guy 5K, 5k, 5k, 5k. You're 20K in the hole and then these guys get hot and rip off a 50K a week and you don't get paid and you still have to pay the guy that you're moving the plays for. There's not much upside there. So I agree with Porter's sentiment.
50:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't agree with his execution at all and things like that most of the time should be taken private. All right, let's go to you, kanisha, on this one. Give your thoughts on the disagreement here, maybe provide your insight on accounts. Do you care about the longevity or earning power immediately, anything you have?
51:03 - Joey Knish (Host)
Yeah, I mean I don't, it's the ultimate like bail you can. You could talk in circles forever on this topic around like keeping the account long or versus like jamming it real fast. So I don't know, I think you're getting getting a little niche there. I've never I know Porter likes to go hard in the bank, you know, when it comes to he's a go for the jugular type guy when it goes for arguments I've never had, you know, like a negative interaction with him on this type of thing. But from the outside, looking in, I do think he takes it to a level that's beyond what you know. I would go.
51:39
I would agree with Storm where to me that's something that you'll want to bring it to you know more of a private conversation rather than than airing that out in public. In that in that instance. But I don't, it's one of those like we could, in the intricacies of like how long can you keep an account for what you're planning there, we could talk for, you know, a week straight on that. So I think it just so many factors like depends on really what you're, what's, what the goals are, what happens with that. So I don't know, I wish I had a stronger take on it. How about you, mike?
52:15 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
As Storm likes to say, there's different ways to skin a cat in this business. With different accounts you want to have different approaches. If you have a juicy legal that you think can make you a ton of money, you don't want to go in and start ripping off market props and get it limited right away. That account's probably super valuable. If you have a PPH, as Storm mentioned, you probably want to just go in, bet your stuff, wait till they stiff you and then move on from there. It all depends on the account. It depends with the way you bet. Certain people are top-down, certain guys are originating. I think there's no one-size-fits-all. This beef with Porter and Adam, I think, sends back a little bit further. So I think that there's probably some stuff lasting from that. So that's just my guess on it. But I don't know. I think there's different ways to attack different accounts. So that makes sense to me All. But I don't know. I think there's different ways to attack different accounts.
53:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So that makes sense to me. All right, and we will go into now our chopping block, but before we do, let's hear about the newsletter we have here at the Hammer. Not sure if you guys are aware yet, but we have an incredible three times a week newsletter here at the Hammer. Mondays, you get latest injury reports, takeaways from the NFL, early leans and NHL discussion from Alex Moreto. Wednesdays, you get the first practice report from every team BetStamp gives out, plus CV props and much more.
53:27
For Fridays we have Kirk's Hammer. He usually writes about things he's observed as a pro, better things in the industry and things that have helped him get better. You can subscribe right now at thehammerbet, or by scanning the QR code that's on screen now for the video, or by heading to the link in the description at any point to never miss out on a newsletter. Final segment of the show is the chopping block, and three things feature on the chopping block for the segments that we don't think require full time to commit to it, but we still wanted to talk about nonetheless. The first one comes from at Lost Talks, Pats, who said Patriots. Wide receiver Kayshaun Booty announced on his Discord server that an MRI revealed he had a grade one hamstring A screenshot of Kayshaun Booty in his Discord and Mike, should we normalize players having their own Discord servers?
54:17 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
No, because I'm sick of. There's 18 million messaging apps. There's 45. You got to get to Discord. Somebody's got a Telegram group, someone's on Signal, somebody's Twitter DMing. I need everybody to get on one system that we can all rely on and all go to. I don't care about the insider trading part of it, the different dynamics. All I want is less communication services.
54:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, Kanish. What do you think?
54:44 - Joey Knish (Host)
No, I'm with PB here, like just one more. Like you cannot have play. You know what, now that I'm saying it out, maybe that you know if everybody has their own Discord, then you know you can get a little edgier if you're really in the weeds. But no, from a sanity perspective I prefer that the Schefter and the Raps to just be tweeting it out as opposed to digging through Keyshawn Boutte's Discord server.
55:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, I guess the Schefters and the Raps are like the people who aggregate all this info for us, because oftentimes they take the info from other sources and aggregate it. Maybe that's part of it. That's kind of what underdog does with injury news. What do you think? Storm?
55:28 - Storm Pig (Host)
a slippery slope. Right, we're all talking about information now, right, what if uh butte wakes up and he's got a super private channel in his own discord? He's like man, I really feel like shit today and somebody goes and bets his under. Okay, is that inside information? How are we treating it? Just one of those things where, uh, I think we're trending in the wrong direction and it's a slippery slope and it's probably better off without it okay, I I could see the appeal of like a team discord with the players involved in it.
56:03 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Um and I guess I mean how many people can booty have for his individual sorry to cut off for his?
56:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I was about to say I was about to say how many people are in this discord server with respect to him.
56:15
How many people are in a cajun booty discord? Um, I was mentioned like this is n player. He has seven likes. I don't know when this was screenshotted versus when it was posted, but there's seven likes on it. There's at least seven people there. I don't imagine this is like a ton. So like can they said. If a lot of players did this, there might be some little tidbits of info in there for sports players to keep an eye on. So I do have I do have to agree with you guys that maybe the players don't realize it and this is like very innocent to them, but it could lead to some bigger issues on the gambling side of things.
56:48
Uh, we've seen the background of storm throughout the show. He's got he's got plenty of dogs. We heard knifed his dog on the show. Um, not hearing my dog today, and the alias of mike is a dog, mr peanut butter. So let's talk about dogs here. Tom, tom Brady cloned his former dog that died two years ago, which had a lot of people chattering on the line. And, kanish, I know you like your dogs, as does Storm. I'll go to both of you, but Kanish, you first of all. Would you ever clone one of your former dogs?
57:21 - Joey Knish (Host)
You know what. At first you might say like, huh, that's a. The problem is this Even if you clone the dog and get the same genetics, just like with the person, the dog's personality and all that is kind of a an amalgamation of like life experiences and how it was raised and all that, so well, genetically you might be getting the same dog, like behaviorally, emotionally I know I'm going way deep here Like are you really going to be like you're not really getting the carbon copy of your same dog, so like you could? Just honestly I think you would accomplish the same thing just getting the same breed again, like somewhere else. So well, I see the the thought from Tommy and he's got the money to do it. I don't think in practice it's going to like get you just like, oh my God, I miss my dog so much, so I'm going to get the same exact dog.
58:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Now, I don't think it really works like that dog so much so I'm gonna get the same exact dog. Now I don't think it really works like that. It'll look the same, but it'll have different habits. It'll have a different favorite spot, a different favorite treat all that so right it's. It's visually the same, but it's different. And there's just I mean, there's so many dogs in shelters like, please adopt, instead of going in their direction of cloning, if you have the money. Storm uh, we've seen your dogs in the background very well behaved, not barking on the stream like some other mutts that we have in the background. What do you think on this one Storm?
58:53 - Storm Pig (Host)
I'm fresh off of a very expensive vet bill this morning and Bon Vet told us my girlfriend and I that they initially thought we were an animal rescue based on how many dogs and cats we have, which I thought was kind of funny, because people make that joke all the time.
59:11
And this weekend, actually for the second time, there's a really, really good documentary on Netflix called King of Clones and it's about the Korean scientists that basically created this animal cloning process and how, like before that he basically tried to dabble in human cloning, he was like super disgraced and he had to move, I think like UAE or Dubai, and then he started this animal cloning thing and it was a success. Um, I, just out of like sheer curiosity, I looked into it and the costs and stuff and you quickly discovered that it's extremely inhumane. Like they, they make them other dogs that carry these clones. Like they, they have like all types of like miscarriages and have to do it a bunch of times. It just seems like an awful process and Tom Brady is an awful human being, so it doesn't surprise me that he did this.
01:00:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
And Mike. Finally to you on this one.
01:00:07 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
I have to agree with the Tom Brady point comes from a breeding ground of cheaters over where Kanish is from, but I don't know if this is like the most rich person problem I've ever heard of.
01:00:18
You know like we cloned our dog and now it's not going to be quite the same. What happens when the dog does something slightly different than your other one? Isn't it going to be weird, like seeing your exact dog act differently? I don't know. It's going to end up being some kind of Xerox of a Xerox. You know, some weird dog that isn't like. It isn't your dog and it's not a different dog. I would hate it.
01:00:41 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, yeah, I I hope this doesn't catch on. I think this is just. I don't even know all the negative things that that storm had brought up, which makes it even worse. Don't do this. You can adopt, and there are plenty of dogs.
01:00:56 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
I don't think anybody really can do this, except for maybe Tom Brady. There's very few people where this is an option.
01:01:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But there's there are people out there who can do this, who are able to do this. A lot of there's a lot of rich people out there who could do this and none of them are watching. But for all the people who can't do this anyways, don't do this, please. Last one we have on the chopping block today comes from Farley Betts, who started off a long tweet by saying I need to make betting fun again, talked about his previous successes in Circa Millions and talked about previous successes in sports. He's been consistently going out people of, I'll say, the sharper crowd on Twitter saying that you don't need all this math and analytical data to make sports bets. He just basically bets purely off of ball knowledge, which we've contested on this show and many people on the sharp side. To have contested is not a recipe for success. He's preached that it has been this season. It definitely has not been. He says he's in the red for NBA, tennis, ufc, nfl.
01:02:01
My understanding is that the NFL is going extremely poorly for him this season, so he said it's time to make some changes. He wants to do different types of content. He wants to change the tone, needing to get back to enjoying the process. I don't know. To me this is just like really big cope, like he's not winning anymore. So now the focus is on, like maybe, the shift away from fine trying to find winning bets. It's going to be more like talking shop, just talking ball. It just seems like pretty big cope to me. What do you think, mike?
01:02:37 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
this is classic you're losing, so just go ahead and quit anyways, this is. You know, if I'm losing, I and coming from a poor loser myself if I am ever losing in a game, I'll act like I don't care that much about how much we're playing this game, so it seems less important that I lost. Uh, this guy comes in and he's challenging everybody and saying, oh, blah, blah, you can bet off ball knowledge now that he's losing. Actually, guys, it's all about having fun. Remember, it's not about the wins and losses. You know, if you wanted the smoke, then take the smoke when you win and when you lose. I guess switching to more entertaining content is probably a good thing to do if you are losing better, but uh, yeah, I mean, like you said, it's a large amount of cope kadesh, how about you?
01:03:18 - Joey Knish (Host)
what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised, uh, the pizza man didn't take this one for himself here with his uh, history of, of of farley bets. But yeah, yeah, this is just a classic like, oh, I was winning so much, but then I you know, like as soon as I went, bro, oh, everything's been downhill since. So we're gonna like change the strategy and in really, like what I need to make betting fun again. People that really are like buying your picks, don't give a fuck about fun, they want to win the winning.
01:03:54
Winning is fun. No one's like, oh, it's fun, but we like, to me, like there's some element of and maybe I'm biased here but like, if you're going to watch one of the network content shows that we're doing, like it's free, right, and you maybe get some entertainment out of that, then it's OK. But if you're selling a product to someone they're not really buying, they're not buying it like. So it can be like, oh, I can have some fun here. It's like, no, I'm buying, so the picks can be profitable. So, yeah, this is yeah, I would agree with BB Just a classic. Like I'm going to pretend, like it does, it's going to be a fun time now, even though we're down 100 units.
01:04:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So well, not quite 100, like some other people. Not quite 100 like some other people. But before I go to storm on this one, I do want to say I'm wishing the best for somebody whose professional life has been shaken and has turned to sports betting to make up for the losses associated with that. But like there is a responsibility on you when you are giving out picks and when you are doing sports betting content as well. Like this is a tough industry to be involved in and to provide for other people and like I'm sorry, but like, again, there's responsibility there and it seems like this is a pretty large rude awakening for him as well. Storm, uh, finish this off. What are your thoughts on this?
01:05:19 - Storm Pig (Host)
First exposure to this guy. Does he sell picks or is he just like content right now?
01:05:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm pretty sure it's not pick selling. Because it says like content that directly is based on giving out picks to people.
01:05:34 - Storm Pig (Host)
He's got like. I looked at his profile quickly he's got like formerly part of this company that looks like like a info tout service, so maybe his ultimate goal is to try to launch his own thing at some point.
01:05:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It sounds like it from reading you do have to pay, so you do have to pay. I'm not, I'm on a sub, oh, ok.
01:05:51 - Storm Pig (Host)
So yeah, yeah, this is like. This is like a Bill Ackman tweet. Like I can't even be bothered to read the entire thing, just I can't even be bothered to read the entire thing. Just massive amounts of cope. Just what are we even doing here? It sucks to like even give somebody like this attention so we can just cut this one year.
01:06:14 - Mr. Peanutbettor (Host)
Can I read a sub stack bio real quick, please? Award winning professional sports better. Who utilizes psychosocial dynamics to find an edge Come on, what are we doing here?
01:06:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I can't believe. This is your first exposure.
01:06:30 - Storm Pig (Host)
Yeah, I haven't seen him before.
01:06:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, lucky you. Well, that's a good way to end off the show. You know we talked a lot about sports betting. We talked a lot about the IQ of sports bettors and maybe providing some examples of the IQ that maybe exists within sports betting as a whole. Lots of fun stuff on the show today. If you have any thoughts on anything we talked about, leave it in the comment section down below. While you're down there, great opportunity for you to smash that like button to support the show. Subscribe to the channel to help us on the road to 30,000 subs. We keep trying to make this channel bigger and better for you. That just allows us to make better content more often. Support what we do here, support our sponsors and, as always, we will see you again next time.
