00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back, episode 10, the show where we review the week that was in gambling twitter, right here on the circles off youtube channel, part of the hammer betting network and presented by pinnacle. I'm rob pazola. Joined to my left kirk evans, evans, jeff Feinberg, jacob Grumania, the giant behind the glass Another eventful week. They always are on Gambling Twitter. Before we get into it, take two seconds. Smash that like button down below. 

01:12
If you're new here, make sure you're subbed here on the Circles Off channel for a lot of educational and lifestyle content in the sports betting space. Let's kick it off with a tweet from Elf. I've seen Elf before. Do some live arbing videos and stuff like that. Seems like a good guy Understands the space a little bit. Puts out this tweet, which made me laugh quite a bit, not only the tweet itself, but a lot of the responses. 

01:36
So who are you picking Gun to the head? You have to pick one soldier to make a million dollar sports betting for you in one year or you'll be killed. They have an unlimited FanDuel, draftkings and PrizePix account to go to war with. Who's it going to be? He offers up four options. First option Bo Wagner. If you don't know who Bo Wagner is. He's an attorney, often posting some high-limit screenshots at recreational sports books. Also seems to really like to drop notes in his Discord whenever he's going to be having sexual relations with his partner that night as well, which I find a little bit awkward. 

02:18
Number two, alex Monaghan from Odds Jam. People probably seen him or heard of him before. Number three is Spanky professional bettor bash. Number four is me myself, rob pazola. Um, I'm really interested because this this generated a lot of buzz. We see comments from jeff benson from pips. I won the money, spanky, and it's not even close. The volume alone would probably get you there before Q2 of 2025. There's lots of ways to look at this. I want to be very clear here that I can think objectively on this situation. My thoughts are any answer is fine. That is not Bo Wagner. 

03:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I would agree with that as well. I think Bo is a very clearly distant fourth and doesn't have to be thought of much in this equation. 

03:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, that's obvious. I think I got to agree with that other tweet. I think I would line up Spanky, like if I'm going'm gonna, I think if it's like a life or death, you know, I would be bending the knee to spanky. Okay, uh, to get this done for me. Yep, I know that he would find ways to beat the books regularly, and then, not only that, he'd probably have some like street or what do you got the PHPs? 

03:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, the PPHs. 

03:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The PPHs where you know he knows there's a penalty kick 40 seconds before there's a penalty kick. So it's actually like I love you, rob, but I wouldn't want to put my soul on your shoulders. So yeah, spanky, I'd bend the knee well I. 

04:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So the thing for me is there's multiple issues that I have with the question. And listen, he's doing this for engagement. He's not drawing out like all the rules or whatever the reality is. I would pick myself, not because I have anything against spanky or alex monaghan I think that they would both be able to do this but I know for certainty that I could do this and I don't want to die. So I would just pick myself in this situation because it's it's make a million betting on these accounts or you'll be killed. 

04:33
The difference is whether or not the accounts remain unlimited. Okay, so if you get an unlimited FanDuel or DraftKings or PrizePix account to start, I think in the spirit of the it's saying it's going to be unlimited. I know one thing I do well and that's like circumvent limits. So if it came down like Alex Monahan would not stand a chance If he was just firing volume on off-market props into these accounts is eventually going to get limited and that's going to affect his ability to make a million dollars. You know what I'm getting at, absolutely so. 

05:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
My interpretation of the question is that the fan duel, draft kings and price picks will not be limited for the year and it's just like a 1x stake account. That's what I got. That's what I got from that and I think people might be surprised with that. With this answer I'm going monahan, because kind of similar to what you're saying, like I don't have a peek behind the curtain of like I know generally, like you bet football, you bet hockey, yeah, but I don't know exactly what you do. I don't know exactly what spanky does. I know exactly what alex monahan does and I know he would be very know. It would be very easy for him to accomplish this if he could just bet all off-market stuff and his account never got limited. If the accounts got limited, then that totally changes the answer. I'd probably go you, spankian and Monahan and Bowe wouldn't have a shot. I don't think Bowe's limited. 

06:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, bowe's not limited, so that says enough, right? 

06:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean mean he's posting screenshots from, you know, sports books where you would get limited if you were betting six thousand a game into in-game markets and consistent and also like it would be hard, if you were limited, for him to find um like the burners and the beards, because I don't think he has any. 

06:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Any friends and women hate him but I'm assuming that the question is that it's just those three accounts. I see what you're saying. You can't go to another FanDuel if you get limited. 

06:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's my interpretation, yeah this doesn't seem like there's any limiting. 

06:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, no limitation. 

06:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The truth is I trust yeah, I guess, I don't know, monahan's like an NBA prop shark. 

06:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, he's a top-down bettor. 

06:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, he runs odds jam, so he would just bet thousands of bets off market. 

06:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And I'll be honest, that's exactly what I would do. I bet NHL and NFL and I originate those right, but there is a high level of variance when you're dealing with smaller sample. So in a competition like this, I would want to pump as much volume as humanly possible into these accounts where I know that they have an edge. Honestly, this is just me and it's not like a shameless plug. I know I co-own the company, but I would use BetStamp Pro. I'd have it up in front of me every day and I would be firing as much volume as humanly possible one, two, three, four percent edges on props and it would easily like we would clear a million. 

07:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Uh, I was gonna say on price picks, you would clear that. Oh, like on the two game bangers where you you got like, like, like handfuls of ofV and yards. 

07:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, there's a reason that these sites limit and it's because if they did have no limits, they would get absolutely out of business by people like me. 

07:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I actually I don't know. This would be a separate conversation. I see prize picks as something a little different. I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think it's a problem that they limit Like they're offering. In my opinion I agree with you more of an. I think it's a lot different than the actual sports books. Uh, they seem like they're offering like an entertainment game service. Yes, way more it. Maybe you could tell me I'm wrong. You could prove to me different ways that it is, isn't, but it's just like an entertainment game game service, far different from me in my opinion, than um what the other like full-site sportsbook operators are I'm with you. 

08:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean this is a different conversation altogether. On the limiting side, I completely understand it. I mean, these sportsbooks are running businesses. They're looking for more recreational players. They don't want to see someone who's firing 200 props into account a day that are all stale, off-market prices, like that's not in the spirit of what they're looking for. 

08:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And I'm sure price picks like preys on losing bettors, but I feel like it's a lot different. 

08:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Mm, mm, I don't know about that I think they all probably do pretty similar things. 

09:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Uh, no one is as aggressive as the others, in my opinion. And even price picks, they won't even let you bet that much from the go, right, yeah, so that's what I mean. It's like from the go. 

09:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They're telling you it's a recreational product From the go. 

09:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
it's more of a recreational product. 

09:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I get that. 

09:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I guess I could have said that quicker recreational product I get that. 

09:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I guess I could have said that quicker. Sorry, I get that. Yeah, if you could like go. Sorry, I was going to say if you go off script, you're off of any of the four. Would you have anybody else in mind for a contest like this? 

09:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, anyone could do that, Like Kirk could do that, no problem. Any of the forward progress guys could pull that off I trust any of them, man, I'm with you, any of them. I think I could do this. I actually think so too. That's what I was gonna say, like I, jacob zach, any of our producers here. 

09:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't know about you, jack I don't think, I don't know that you I don't know that you understand enough about top down betting to be yeah, I don't care, I wouldn't even, uh, I wouldn't even sign myself up yeah, I could see jeff messaging, messaging me on WhatsApp like a hundred times a day, being like hey, what do you think of this play? 

10:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What do you think of that play? Maybe you? 

10:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
could do it. Well, yeah, if I was doing it for my life. Sure, yeah, my accounts are fresh. 

10:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right? Well, you're doing it for someone else's life. Yeah, into consideration. If this was like a team game and we're in like some survivor and like we need someone from the team to nominate themselves, I'd be like dude, this is not my contest. Well, if someone came up to me and they said listen, rob, my life is on the line if you don't make a million dollars this year in my accounts depends who it is I would take that very seriously. 

10:38
Can I say the same for spanky or alex monahan? I'm not suggesting that they're bad characters, but I can't personally say the same. Right, it's a dip Like their priorities might be entirely different. Okay, sorry, he's planning Bet Bash six months a year. You gotta put your life in this guy's hands. He's handed off his team to Luke and Chinese Mike. He's not part of the day-to-day anymore. 

10:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, fine, but I'm just saying like hol, like holistically, as the question was written, that I was viewing it Like yes, you put in any if you, if you put in like the grind and the worth of it. That that's like different. 

11:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
If you answered Spanky, you answered Alex Monahan, or you answered the pizza man, rob Pizzola. You're fine, you're living. 

11:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If you answered Bo Wagner, it's time to go back and reevaluate the sports betting space. That question's a lot. He's a lot different than when they're like uh, you know who would you let hit like a 10 foot putt for your life or something? 

11:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, it's a lot scarier yeah, there's not gonna be that much like nerves here because, like it's just gonna be like you said, just a pure volume game. 

11:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is this is easily done. So many well, I want to say so many people it's like 1% of the betting population really but could accomplish this on an unlimited account really easily. You just got to remove your ego from the equation and be like, yeah, I'm just going to trust the market prices, just bet on a sport you don't watch, and then you can do this. 

12:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
If you're just an aware bettor and you, you see the markets and they move slowly and you know that these bets will just hold value come. 

12:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, and there's so much technology out there that will alert you to that nowadays. Like I mentioned BetStamp Pro, obviously, you have OddsGen. There's a million different products that offer an odd screen where they come up with some sort of true line that you can bet based off of. Anyways, it's, it's, it's really really easy. So, um, yeah, I think any of those questions are answers are acceptable. If the accounts get limited, though, at some point, then it's a different answer and then I'm taking myself yeah, I would agree I honestly don't think I could. 

12:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'll tell you this right now I, um, I bet the Bears on Sunday, rob. So did I. 

12:47 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
Okay, but hear me out. 

12:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That wasn't even the worst of it. I was out hanging with the boys, all the games, all the screens, and there was a moment that day as I'm hyper-focused on Saints-Giants where I'm like there could just feel disgusting right now. 

13:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I get it. 

13:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I should be like I left my wife home with three kids. I'm watching Saints fucking. 

13:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Giants, at least it wasn't Jags Titans, man, you want to know something? 

13:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That TV of that game defaulted and just went to black screen and our whole group was just too lazy to get up to fix it until halftime and we didn't even miss anything, that's amazing, definitely not. 

13:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The last thing I want to say on this particular topic here was I read through every single response Because we're doing a content show here. I wanted to see what people are saying. I got to say it was pretty depressing the amount of people who didn't know who me or spanky was in, and and it really it's the other side of gambling twitter. It is the other side which I didn't know what, like this elf guy was part of the, because I couldn't. Elf is, um, doing a lot of live arbing stuff. He understands how the market works like. Here are the sharp sports books they're putting out this price. I'm gonna bet that. I'm gonna guaranteed money type of stuff. He's figuring that stuff out. But yeah, it was. It was like a real reality check of you know, I don't, I don't ecosystem is fucking huge, rob. 

14:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
well, I don't like okay, you don't market yourself, but the ecosystem is just so big. Yeah, it's so big. Like you ask people on the street the most basic question that you think they would know, because it's all over the news, they don't know it, so I wouldn't like be offended by it. I'm not offended. 

14:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I wasn't offended by the way it's just like a reality check of like you know what. 

14:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The space is enormous, yeah, and I don't film a video every day like yelling. 

14:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You got to do this. 

14:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't put out bet threads and stuff like that and all that engagement, it really it really has a way of like reaching the masses. It's just more of a lesson, I guess we're all also chronically online. So okay, we see stuff and just expect, everyone else has seen it as well. Yeah, that's very true. 

15:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But also it should in some ways encourage you to be like there's so much more you can like. Still grow yourself 100% Because of the amount of people that, like literally have no clue who you are, who are in the ecosystem? 

15:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh yeah. Well, there's certain things like I don't tweet like bet recaps or post like winning slips anymore things of that nature recaps or post like winning slips, anymore things of that nature but it seems to really garner a lot of attention, even when those slips might actually be telling on yourself in a lot of ways. Anyways, we move on. Timmy knows ball. Yeah, so I don't. 

15:36
I don't really watch college game day myself, and I saw Timothy Chalamet was trending on Twitter. I'm like what is this about? Is it like they announced another Dune or something like that Dune 3 release date? I had no idea. Then I'm seeing all these tweets and people are going nuts because Timothy Chalamet was on college game day. They did the pick segment with him, which he ended up going 4-2. He was the only one on the panel who picked the Ohio Bobcats in the MAAC championship game. They won outright and he was like he had a reason, like reasoning for everything. He's rhyming off quarterbacks and like Pat McAfee was going nuts. They, they. It was just like I'll play the clip as well. Yeah, we'll play the clip here. 

16:22 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
I'm going Jackson State Eight wins in a row, 11 all-conference players this should be a comfortable, easy win for them. These teams are 2-2 in the last four matchups. The Red Hawks' defense looks good, but I'm looking at fourth-year Bobcats quarterback Parker Navarro. Yeah, 65% completion rate. If he can get going, he'll tilt this in favor of the Bobcats. I'm going underdog Bobcats here. Yes. 

16:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Underdog Bobcats. I love that. 

16:44 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
Okay, I'm going Louisiana here. Tyrone Lewis Jr, Cody Jackson, Tyree Skipper they're going to step that defense up. I'm pulling for Arizona State today. 

16:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Tammy. 

16:55 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
He said that Kevin Jennings, legit Heisman contender next year. My humble opinion I'm pulling for SMU. It smells like the 1980s folks. I want to go six and oh, I'm going. Oregon smart man number one team in the country for a reason. Strong defense. 

17:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Not as sharp as 2023 at times but uh, great showing this year this blew up and I I'm like a big time downer when it comes to this, so maybe I'll save my take for afterwards. No give it. People were like so impressed with this right like this is insane. Like dude knows ball, we had memes coming on. You know the, you know ball. Uh, you know meme, that's you know ball. 

17:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's like the best meme that's saving my phone. 

17:40 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I adore that. I adore that. Anytime you could bust that out to like a buddy, yeah, congrats. 

17:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
My current number one candidate for the Jets GM job is a picture of Timothee Chalamet. We had comments on our network Rob, can you get Timothee Chalamet on Hit the Books, Get powers a guy who actually knows ball? There was a bunch of this stuff. Maybe my expectations are too high. Like I get it, it's just like he's an actor. 

18:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He's got a lot of stuff on his plate, yet he's still new enough to really speak properly. You're just like why are we giving a guy credit for picking a game? Why are we giving a guy credit for knowing who the quarterback is? 

18:15
Yeah, he brought a bunch of notes with him. You're on ESPN. This is a popcorn show. I don't watch any pregame. It popcorn show. I don't watch any pre-game. It's a long show. Saturday morning I'll always see some of it, whether it's near the beginning or the end. There's no like appointment segment but it is a fun. Yeah, popcorn show and it's hard to not like the panel, but most of the guys that do have on like they don't know anything, they're like my buddies picked went to this school, like that's the thing. So it was like such a bar raiser from like the typical celebrity. But like let's wind this thing back a little. This guy fucks, okay, this guy slays back it up, back it up. You can only see it a little here. To have to have the ability to pull off that jacket rocks. 

19:04 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So hard and the mustache. 

19:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He is gorgeous. I say that as a staunch hetero. Okay, this guy is stunning. He's got it all going for him, right? 

19:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
now. This isn't where I thought we were going to go with this. 

19:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't care it needs to be said I don't care if there's dudes watching this who are too insecure to admit that. That is just the fact of the matter. That being said, huge avid sports fan Like Knicks Rangers loves it. Okay, grew up in New York, born in New York, it's easy. How he could become a sports fan. Does he know who all these quarterbacks are? No, but he got hooked some crib notes, like you know. 

19:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He got hooked some crib notes and he's an actor and he delivered. He delivered it exactly beautifully. It was like I was watching you too, where he's like motivating everyone around him. 

19:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So he like that's how shocked the guys like most of these, like goober celebrities come here, it's like, yeah, he's like in awe of so, but he knows enough, in a way, rob, like betters, were pretty sophisticated. 

20:25
Like when Darren Rovell, when Action Broker, like you see some of the milk pickers, you can tell just by their vocab and how they deliver and certain usage of words whether they, like sports, know sports, have a fucking clue about betting, yeah, and you could tell that, like he probably doesn't know who the actual quarterback was, never saw him play, but just how he did it that he absolutely knows ball. Yeah, knows ball, yes, has. I'm not saying he's a plus ev, better right, but this guy absolutely knows ball, um, and keeps up with his teams in the leagues and I I've noticed if he's got an hour off he's watching it. 

20:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I believe that it's nice when a celebrity also comes on to a show like this and actually does their homework beforehand, doesn't just show up like totally randomly. 

20:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Because he likes sports. This is the most wrong take you've ever had on this show, but you're like this is. 

21:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
ESPN. This is 20 minutes before the game. You can't just like. Knowing the name doesn't get you credit. I get it. I get it from your. 

21:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
POV, my POV. I click through Twitter. I'm seeing all these memes like oh my God, this guy knows ball this and that. 

21:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sample size Anyone can pick six games and go four and two. 

21:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, it's not even that Jeff. It's not even that jeff, it's not. It's not that like actually extract what he is saying. It's no different than what anyone like. It is just spewed garbage. Like if, if, if a tout did this right. If someone else did this, I would be losing my mind he's like he's not out. 

21:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He's timothy shallum. He has a lot of players like miami ohio in ohio, they split their last four games. 

21:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They're two and two in the last four. It's a celebrity pick segment. Compare what he just did to what happens when, like John fucking Cena goes up there, or like the country singer, like that's a thing. 

21:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So, and that's the show If the standards have gotten so low that someone can go up there and read like the first two lines of a celebrity this is like the end of this is like this is 20 seconds before the guy puts on a mascot helmet, like you need your whole. 

22:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm getting upset because you're holding this to something that it isn't. Yes, agree that's in. 

22:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's my opinion. I'm not holding it to something that it isn't. I think it's less impressive than people think it is to have someone who follows college football very obviously, or is a sports fan who goes up there and, just like Parker Navarro, is the quarterback for this team. It's like great, who cares? There's nothing in this two minutes, that I watch. That was anything that was. Who gives a? 

22:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
shit. He picked the side. They were all on the other and one team got their doors beat off. And on that note, I know you'll tell me there's no such thing as a pro side or an under side. Everyone's got a different number. Yeah, the Miami of Ohio was the sharp side, they're a two-point favorite in the game. In the game. Yeah, the sharp side in this game in the game in the game. 

23:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, and I think the game picked the two point underdog and the game moved with them. 

23:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, no, I'm just saying so. This was like a um on saturday morning. This was a very against the grain pick and whether he got given it given it, got it given to him, yeah, by a buddy who, or a colleague or someone in his orbit who knows way more college ball, it is totally irrelevant. He went up there, he looked like he he's just um, he exudes it and you can't appreciate. 

23:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, he's got a lot of machismo, don't get me wrong. Like, he's got the charisma of like a 90s wrestler he's very easy to listen to, like Like it captures, it's engaging. 

23:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No one gives a shit that he knew Parco Navarro as a 65%, but it was just, I don't know, maybe it is to a point that segment so much under delivers that like when— I think that's the case honestly, If that's what people got excited about. 

24:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I would evaluate the entire process of what they're doing on this show. 

24:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, because again, this is also like 20 seconds before the dude puts the mascot helmet on. This isn't that? This is just like popcorn before the big games. 

24:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Okay, I'm still struggling on my end. What is the most like what? What is the most appealing? Is it just that? 

24:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
there's a celebrity. It's that hair, it's that face, it's that jacket. 

24:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's the winners yeah, but he went four and two. 

24:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's not like he had a better day than everyone else on the panel but at noon, when you saw it going viral, yeah, there were the other games. The full slate hadn't happened yet. No, it hadn't. So it was just in the. 

24:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was just the start, so it's the fact that he picked a game that the panel didn't, and sometimes, you see, they like to make fun of panels when, like, there's the game and everyone's on one side. 

24:59 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
Oh, it's a classic joke. 

24:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
yeah, so it's a classic meme, so it was just playing into that meme Like so it's a classic meme, so it was just playing into that meme, like there's elements of that, like now he's the standalone, the celebrity, the expert, not the expert, like truly doesn't have a clue, yeah, and he came and he brought it and that's it. Maybe there's just an appreciation for celebrity caring and bringing it. 

25:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, that was my thing. My thing was, like, is the bar so low here? That someone can come on and name a player in each game and automatically everyone's like oh, this guy, but the bar should be that low. 

25:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They're a celebrity that people just want to watch on their TV and not expecting no support. You made a point before. We recorded about this how you brought up a few years ago, sean McVay read off the opponent's defense and he was getting glad-handed. Oh yeah, and I was so mad. I was like A. I was mad because I knew Anthony Lynn couldn't name the opponents of the Chargers that day, so that made me mad. But I'm like that is like the bar minimum. 

26:03
Like of course he knows the 18 guys he might see against on that defense and their skill sets. Yeah, and all of that now to sean mcveigh's credit. I don't think he deserves credit for that. But when you say third and seven to night, uh, 2020, eight minutes left in the fourth quarter, you like give him the sequence. He can tell you the play they ran. Yeah, like any game ever. That's the crazy shit. Yeah, sean mcveigh. Yes, that's like that's where we deserve credit, not when he can name the fucking bears yeah, it was. 

26:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It was going viral and there somebody asked him about like the bears and he just started going through and he's like, oh, you know this guy montez. I don't know exactly what the close will is, but like, yeah, it's good, you know, you can make plays on the quarterback and he just said something about each player on the defense. 

26:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're not I don't know, you're an nfl head coach. It's multifaceted. Yeah, it's multifaceted. Yeah, like I can respect it from your end, but someone that beautiful shouldn't like do that. I agree, I will say you're just supposed to be an ex-football guy, or? 

26:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I look like you a nerd it's just not supposed to work like that. Captured my attention but then I sat back and I'm like what I, I and I still don't I get your takes like in the same reason, warren shiver out of the little mustache. 

27:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sometimes it could just be mesmerizing. Yeah, I get it, but like, but, but like. 

27:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, the floor is low, it's espn well, even like mcafee and herb street, on both sides of him they're going nuts on every single yeah, because the guys don't do that, because they've never seen a like. They've not had someone maybe once or twice a year. 

27:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
There's like a hardcore celebrity that comes up there, but you know what it is. It's like cena johnny manziel, country singer. Like it's guys that like sports, that know sports. 

27:37
But yeah, no one bring like brought it, they brought, he brought it, and then and then when they're like up 21, nothing or something out of the gate and this was like uh, remember 40 minutes ago we did it like yeah, it goes viral through the early session on saturday. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, that's all. And to be able to pull off that coat like man. 

28:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That is a coat that I would try to wear and not be. No, that's a coat that's very much in the rock collection. That's a coat that I would try to wear and not be able to wear. No, that's a coat that I know. That's very much in the Rob Pizzola collection. 

28:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's a coat that I would see be like. Look at me. I'm self-aware enough to know you cannot pull that off. You look like Kirby, you know, like the Nintendo guy. 

28:17 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
Oh yeah, of course, that's what. 

28:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I would look like in that coat, so like, so, like I got. I'm also self-aware like I see these nice, tall, slender golfers and some of those checkered outfit like like that looks beautiful. 

28:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I thought you wore like a nice pink sweater last week a nice. He didn't look like kirby, not that pink, a nice soft pink crew. 

28:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Neck, I can pull off that I can't pull off. 

28:41 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
It's true, come on like there's only a select few that actually can pull off that I can't pull off. It's true, come on. 

28:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like there's only a select few that actually can pull that off. 

28:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Can pull that off. Uh, what do you guys think about? 

28:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sorry, I'm just sorry. I got really animated, I know. No, I like that. I cared a lot there. This is great for the show. Yeah, I like that, it's gotta be. I don't get the fascination, but that's more about. And maybe I'm like standing because, as you can see, like I'm a fan. 

29:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Do you like him more than GRP? 

29:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm a big fan of him. Hopefully we can see him later. 

29:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Those two people should never be compared again. You think GRP could pull? 

29:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
off that pink jacket. No, no, no, you're not supposed to wear that jacket into 

29:19 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
some Midwest midway diner. 

29:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, you're not. 

29:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right or like the. 

29:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Rivers Casino in you know wherever he's in. 

29:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think he's in Chicago or outside of there, somewhere around there. 

29:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, no that jacket deserves like to go where Timothy wears it. 

29:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
One thing that was noticeably big for me on Twitter this week was the amount of opinions around the 12-team playoff that they've expanded to this year. Who should get in? Is the format good? And honestly, I got to tell you I was kind of opposed to the idea of the expansion because I'm like, ah, do we want to see more? You know, watered-down teams that really can't win the title? As part of this, and as it was playing out over the course of the week, I started thinking to myself I'm like I kind of just want expanded playoffs in everything. 

30:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Hard disagree. Yeah, no, hard disagree. 

30:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No chance. 

30:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like the talk. I love the engagement and the back and forth of who should get in, who shouldn't get in. More opportunities to bet Well. 

30:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Okay, I can see the argument in college football Again, though I kind of felt like college football's whole thing was like a week three game. If you lose it, like your season's nearly dead, like that was such an intriguing part of college football. 

30:34 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
Yes. 

30:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And now Alabama has three losses and they had a chance and they didn't get in but have a chance. But when you're saying expanding other playoffs, like what sport are you talking about? 

30:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, just in general NHL. 

30:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Over 50? Even say March Madness. Why is March Madness? 

30:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
64 teams and not 9-6? 

30:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, who cares? I don't know, like that doesn't. I wouldn't give a shit about that, but I don't think you can change Like NHL, nba, there's already bottom feeders. 

31:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know there gets to a point where there's too much the NFL no offense, I guess I'll wear this too. 

31:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Look at the teams that are going to be the last playoff team, like last year. The teams that have, since the NFL expanded to the seventh seed, the dregs of teams that get since the nfl expanded to the seventh seed. 

31:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, the dregs of teams that like get in, that I hate. The seventh seed doesn't really add anything, I think they should have expanded to eight. They should have went from six to eight. 

31:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I hate that one team in each conference gets okay, maybe, sure, maybe, that's a such a massive advantage. I would just say the charm of the reality is they want this to, at some point in the very near future, feel like a pro entity with a pro playoff structure and we see the writing on the wall to probably two super conferences that will feel like AFC NFC. So that is their goal. But the reality is it feels like at least for people of our age and older and a bit younger the losses that used to be disqualifying are no longer disqualifying. 

32:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like. 

32:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Texas losing twice just used to disqualify you To the same team disqualified. You don't get to do this anymore. Yeah, you're done. 

32:13 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
In a different time. 

32:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't know whether Ohio State yeah, that loss would have just disqualified them from being into it. I would hate it in pro but I actually loved or I don't want to say I loved it because it's less entertaining. But that goddamn BCS computer was pretty good because it would spit out the two teams. It'd be like fuck a playoff. Let's get Detroit and the Chiefs into the Super Bowl or Detroit. Like why risk not having that? Let's get the and baseball would have been Yankees Dodgers. 

32:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like let's risk that not happening and put it there and you kind of knew beforehand like what the scenarios were going to be. I don't think they got it wrong. 

32:58 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, it's fun to see teams get upset in the playoffs like we do all the time in hockey. It's awesome, but I think the computer got it right. 

33:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That being said, for entertainment this is fine, but there's no disqualifiers it works really well for college football, though, because you have like so many moving parts. Right, it's like, well, this team played a shitty schedule this year. Can we actually put them in the top 12, or the? And it creates so much debate where you're never going to get a real answer. Like if we wanted the 12 best teams, you you would go to like the pinnacle circa and see, be like, okay, like power rate the top 12 teams, but that's not what this is about, and you know there's like matt davidow has a strong opinion here of like teams who play shitty schedules too fucking bad. 

33:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, like you shouldn't be, florida State went undefeated and didn't make the playoffs last year. Right, right? 

33:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, their quarterback got hurt, I know. 

33:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
They went undefeated. Yes, your quarterback getting hurt shouldn't stop you from. 

33:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But they've made it explicitly clear now that it will yeah, it will yeah. Exactly of it, of like if you're, that's the pros and cons of this. If you're, if a player gets hurt, then yeah, sorry guys, that should not yeah, but have any watch that game. 

34:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Dude, sure, but, but they literally couldn't have done anything else but that's the thing. 

34:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This playoff you have to. You don't want to respect the guy got hurt. The record is the record. But when it is on the back of a made-for-TV thing that was the college football playoffs literally made by ESPN for ESPN, like they made it, Like it's a made-for-TV thing, so TV kind of matters. 

34:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was thinking in my head, like when this was all happening in real time we were watching the odds change on whether SMU or Alabama will get in after the SMU-Clemson game at night. And I'm thinking in my head and this is coming from totally understand, I'm Canadian. I don't have a college football team. I guess I cheer for Ohio State because I have relatives in columbus, but like I don't really care from the outside looking in, is this like a neutral? I was like just fucking load up like the best matchups, set up this bracket in a way where we're gonna get like some really amazing matchups along the way, even if it's unfair and and listen, it would have been unfair to a lot of teams. But that's kind of what I'm hoping for now. I just want to see good matchups. 

35:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But the reality is we're going to get this bracket and there's the possibility. I should stare at the games first before I say this, but where you just like, the first round is insanely lopsided games. 

35:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's possible and also like the way that it was set up is the four major conference winners get the top four seeds, and. And also like the way that it was set up is the four major conference winners get the top four seeds and number three and number four, boise State, arizona State, are weaker. 

35:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
There's a soft like seat. 

35:44 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Exactly yeah, there's a soft seat, so there's like some scenarios where people are like, well, a team will be better off actually losing their game on Sunday to get a better path. See, like that to me. I hate when stuff like that. 

35:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's a stupid system, but it's a game theory. You're just trying to manipulate the game theory of it. 

35:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, give them an automatic berth, but don't give them a top four seed. 

36:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But again, also the seeding should be like you get to pick your team. I think that should be in any sport you get to pick who you play, because there should never be a scenario where you'd rather be the eighth seed than the sixth seed. 

36:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love that. 

36:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
We have not seen that in a sport yet we've seen it in one sport and I'd be embarrassed to tell you how I know the sports, but it just happened. 

36:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The uh new women's hockey league. Why are you embarrassed about that, pwhl? 

36:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
yeah, no, you say you never saw it yeah, I never saw. 

36:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't watch pwhl, neither did I, but I knew they did that in their playoffs last year. They did that yeah you get a pick. 

36:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I can just you get a pick and I actually think the I don't even remember, but I think the underdog, the team that got picked, like some brother adds to the story exactly because they get mad like, oh you really want to play. 

36:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh yeah, it's the. 

36:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's the motivation, adam silver could think about the nba. They could make like a two-hour show about this. The team makes their selection I know they could have a representative from both teams. So the underdog team would be like yeah, you want to play us, like you're gonna, you're gonna find out. 

37:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They did that. They square off like a picture. You know, that's amazing they have to hire like wrestlers to help to cut promos like actual. They should do that stuff it just yeah. 

37:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know why no sport has done bring it closer. That would be the easiest one to do, because it's new 100 and it makes sense picking oh, that would just be. 

37:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's amazing you as a fate. 

37:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh my god I would love I'd second guess it to the end. Exactly. Imagine the best team picking the second best team in the first round to try to prove a statement, to make a statement. It would never happen, but it would be amazing. 

37:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I could see like you'd only do that if it was for you just imagine the chiefs get like the one seat in the afc and they're like well, we're taking the bills. 

37:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that's literally only like that is very wrestling, where it's like you're not even trying to win the royal rumble, you're just going out of the ring to attack that the only thing that like your blood feud is that strong that you are just going to attack that person. 

37:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
How does home field work then? Because the Chiefs pick the Bills. The Bills have earned home field in the first round. Well, it's Now. They no longer get home field. 

38:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The highest seed gets to pick first Right, so they get the home game. 

38:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No matter what? Yeah, exactly. 

38:12 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
But if the one speed picks, you, you don't get home. 

38:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You could lose your home field. 

38:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fair enough. It's amazing. God, we need to see this. I'm all for crazy shit happening in sports. I don't think any league could expand. I don't want to extend the show. 

38:26 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That means you must like this stupid baseball rumor of the golden bat. 

38:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I saw that I don't even know what you're talking about. 

38:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm so out of it when it comes to baseball. I saw the deal and that's about it. The commissioner floated something that each team in the game, that that room, that owners have talked to him about it, so this is almost like him soft floating it. Yeah, to see the public reaction. Okay, we're once in the game. You get a golden bat where anyone can bat for you I kind of like it honestly at any point anyone can bat? 

38:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
it's a. I kind of like it honestly At any point anyone can bat. 

38:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a little gimmicky, but it's cool. It is gimmicky. I don't know how I feel about it, but I would like to see it in action? 

39:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't know about that it's just the soul, Like I don't know. 

39:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Baseball especially. 

39:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So many people just want to like preserve the history. The same thing, it's just not so. People are being like look how great the baseball rules have been. Like I agree. 

39:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The baseball rules have been great. 

39:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They should actually have to use a real golden bat though it's from the Savannah Bananas. Oh, they probably would. They took it from them. 

39:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like if you were. 

39:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Shohei, or like one of those players that would be the like golden bat pretty much daily for your team. Yeah, the, the company that makes your bat, would probably make it a gold one to use in a walk off with a golden bat. Oh man, that would. I don't know how I honestly feel about it. Does feel very gimmicky to me, like how do you? 

39:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
model, that does that even matter? You just feel like a like you'll say a lot of things 50 50, I'll win most and I'll I'll come out if I give 50 50 on getting burned or winning from golden bat, as long as I win everywhere else if you're modeling. 

40:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You would try to model that in some way. It's it's. It's extremely challenging to do so because there's gonna be like a ton of guesswork involved in there and you're just making educated guesses. But as as you build up data over seasons, you'd be able to model it better. In this instance, this team might use if you're running like a monte carlo simulation I'm getting way too in the weeds right now but you could you could come to some probabilities as to when a team would use the golden bat yeah, or like it's like bases loaded, but it's the second inning. 

40:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
How do you? 

40:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
model baseball bullpens. It's the exact same thing. You have educated guesses. You got like eight guys in the pen. Three of them pitched the day before. Who's available this day? It's. All of that is like it's honestly a lot of guesswork is what it comes down to yeah, of course, and yeah the goal. 

40:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You could use the golden baton, like the fourth inning Got a pitcher on the ropes, why not? 

40:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I leverage spot Base is loaded, why not? Why save it until the end of the game, when we might not even use it or when they'll have their closer, they'll have their best, yeah, best, pitcher, pitcher. 

41:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But that was one of the things people were like it would be so cool, you get the best. It would be kind of cool. The awesome closer versus the superstar is a guarantee. No, it's not it almost creates some ninth inning. Well, that's the thing. 

41:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You could use it anytime it, yeah, and I hope they're just using it for um, yeah december november. 

41:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like people talk about us interesting, interesting I'm sorry, I even brought it up. No, I like it. I I'm disgusted by it disgusted by it. 

41:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, I wouldn't want to implement it, but it is cool. Yeah, be good for like a video. Okay, how? 

41:31 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
about just one week of the season. 

41:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's like golden bat week, like how the nba is emirates cup I like it I'm just saying, like you can't, only in the last week of the season, no, not only. 

41:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I just like a random week that feels like it's meaningless, like in the dog days I don't care enough about sports and this is sad. 

41:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm saying this right. 

41:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You wouldn't even care if shohei was faced like you wouldn't even. 

41:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, it's not that, it's just like. I just don't care to argue about the rules anymore. There's so many things. This is different than rules. This is like Fundamental change of the game. 

42:02 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is like almost. This is different than a rule change, I would say. 

42:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
In my opinion, yeah, it would be the most extreme rule change in any like modern or major sport I could think of. Yeah, for sure. 

42:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, there's been a bunch over the years that are not like Golden bat Well, that have like as much of an impact on the game that you just don't really. They're way smaller change but has a huge impact, Like, for example-. 

42:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm sure hockey giving-, removing the crease, skating the crease. Yeah, Back in the day foot in the rule, automatic no goal. They got hockey. Giving a point for losing exactly is like fundamentally changes standings and it's changed how teams pass for the championship football taking uh you know what illegal contact uh penalties and stuff. 

42:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like sure uh force outs okay you know like. 

42:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But in the end those still feel like arbitrary, like rules yeah, this is, this is a, this is like something that really goes to the um. 

42:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, it's ridiculous, I understand. It's actually ludicrous when you think about it, Like if you compare what that could be in other sports, it's like, well, yeah, maybe in NHL each team gets to just declare that they're on the power play at one point in the game. 

43:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't hate that rule either, right. 

43:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I hate that. 

43:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I hate that. 

43:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right, what would you do in the NBA? I don't even know what the example would be, maybe something similar. You get to play five on four for one minute in real game time. 

43:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You can activate a four-point line for like a minute. Oh yeah, there you go. 

43:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Or, okay, I got one for football. 

43:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There's a fourth down in the game and there's a time where you can make the other them go for it. This is the fourth down. It's fourth and 27 at three, you're right. 

43:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You can't have that. No, I'm getting stupid and we're off track. 

43:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Instead of taking a kickoff, you get a fourth down play instead of a kickoff. 

43:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
They've rumored that, instead of the onside kick, some 15-yard play to get the ball back or something. Yeah, drew Lock probably just run for it. 

44:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Moving along. We had a study that was done, a report from Morgan Stanley, and the results of this were tweeted out by Sam McQuillan. Morgan Stanley's report found that 50% of bets are parlays. Also, young bettors wager most Women place bigger bets. Espn leads in young user percentage. Fanatics tops in female users. Louisiana has the highest parlay percentage. A couple of these things stood out to me right away, absolutely as I imagine they did to you as well. 

44:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, well, the two ones that are focused on female bettors. This is like you know how people say numbers don't lie. Yeah, I hate that saying because, like sure, the numbers don't lie, but if you can't interpret them, then you come to ridiculous conclusions, like I imagine women placing bigger bets and fanatics being tops and female users has a lot to do with beard play and that just it's. I haven't read the morgan stanley report, but if that wasn't mentioned in there, that seems like a pretty big uh myth by that well, that was my initial reaction is women place bigger bets? 

45:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
no shit, because most of the women, the female accounts are, uh, the significant others of of males who've gotten banned. And this is listen. I know that there's female bettors. I know a lot of female bettors myself, but generally speaking, the majority of bettors are male. When you get limited, lots of people like to open up other accounts. Naturally, they're going to use their significant other. Fanatics is very much known for limiting, so there are tops in female users. That all makes sense. 

45:38
But then I went into the morgan stanley report afterwards. They actually just pulled 3 000 random bettors across 40 legal states. So, first of all, why summarize when you don't give the specifics of the? Because this sam is now responding to all these people on twitter being like well, actually, did you read the study? Did you read the study? Did you read the study? But like what? I don't know what it is with society? We're doing the most useless studies. If you pull 3 000 random bettors across 40 states and they just tell you what their average bet size is, why do we even care? Like it doesn't matter, it's so insignificant. And then it's being like all these things are being reported. This is the state of the industry. It's so stupid. I hate the betting reporting that goes on. You cannot get any source of the like. You want a source of the truth. Just get the account information from these companies. 

46:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I mean that that would tell you a lot more than just pulling 3 000 random bettors yeah, no, I totally agree, and yeah, there's just I wonder if they talk to women bettors who actually bet, or like what if you ran an account? You're a woman, you know you're a beard like, do you consider that your bet? I'm not sure I know that's part of it as well. Like, probably, they probably would if, like a significant other, had an account. They're the ones actually placing the bet, but the bets aren't theirs. They probably do consider it their bets I'm getting, I I'm. 

47:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's real challenging for me nowadays to process all of these like reports and stuff like that that come out in the betting space, because they don't make any sense. They don't I don't like. Who's funding these reports? What, what, what are we gaining from learning that louisiana has the highest parlay percentage, when they probably pulled like a hundred people in louisiana like what is the purpose of even doing this stuff nowadays? 

47:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
also like, if it's if all states are relatively close in percentage, it's not indicating that so louisiana could be the highest, but it could all be very, very close as well. Yeah yeah, I mean he's asking, like you're saying, like he's replying. Did you read it? Like the way he's framed it here? He wanted a response, he wanted a reaction. So he shouldn't. I don't know if he's upset about it, but he shouldn't be, because he's. He got what he asked for with a tweet like this well, it got the engagement. 

47:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll tell you, because of the women place bigger bets, yeah, and naturally a bunch of people would jump in on that. I would like to get to a point where we actually have some like real reporting done done in the sports betting industry and that's using like real account information. Right, I mean, even go up and ask a guy what his average bet size is, I bet you, the vast majority of people, are going to respond very differently than what their average bet size. Totally, totally, I don't even know mine. That's what I'm saying. If someone put you on the spot hey jeff, what's your average bet size? What percentage of plays are parlays of yours? You don't have a fucking clue what that is I wouldn't even know. 

48:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean like there's so many muck muck, shits and giggles like 20 dollar bets and at the same time there's like, oh, this is my favorite game of the week and I've got, you know, like plenty on it, I know. So I I wouldn't even know what my average would be and I don't even like think of them as the same, because sometimes you know it's just what's right for everyone is different. But like, sometimes some of those bets like get together with the buddies, like it's true, just throw a chip on the floor like I don't, what's your? 

49:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
average bet size. Well, am I sober or am I drunk? Because those are going to change pretty pretty, pretty drastically. 

49:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Not only would I think rec bettors have no idea what their average bet size is, I would say that they have absolutely no idea on how much money they've lost gambling in any stretch of time. 

49:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
As Johnny likes to say, though, 99% of bettors are. You ask them, they're basically right around even. 

49:31 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's always right around even. 

49:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You know, would that be like fuck. I really like not want to know how much money I've given McDonald's. 

49:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, I think, 100%, absolutely. I think about how much I spend on coffee every year, or like how much Uber. 

49:45 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like anything. 

49:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
How many beers I've consumed when I? 

49:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
started university. 

49:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, that would be Ugly number. 

49:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, but yeah, I know. But a lot of, like the rack books, yeah, I know. But a lot of the rec books, I guess credit to them because you think you're going to hide it, but you don't have to go far to see that number right in your face. It's true, yeah. 

50:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's true. All right, before we move on here, I just want to shout out our show sponsor, pinnacle Sportsbook Been betting for a long time here in Canada and I've been using Pinnacle Sportsbook for a long time. There's a reason. They've been in business for the past 25 years. They're a very reputable book. Fair on limits, we've been talking this show about all these sportsbooks limiting you. That's not going to happen at Pinnacle. If you win, you get to keep betting. They show you exactly what you can bet while you are placing your bet, unlike other spots as well. So make sure you check them out. Head over to pinnaclecom. Slash hammer. You must be 19 plus, not available in the us and, as always, please play responsibly. All right, before we move on here as well. Circles off. 

50:51
Thursday, 4 pm eastern time. Set notifications for that episode. It is what I would call a big bomb banger. We are interviewing someone that I would put on the mount rushmore in the betting space. Truly fascinating, sharp mind. You're going to want to check it out. It's from a bookmaker perspective. There's a lot of myths out there when it comes to how sportsbooks set lines, trap games, all this stuff. He's going to respond in detail. Thursday, 4 pm. Eastern time. Check it out. 

51:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Those ones are always the best episodes. 

51:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love doing those episodes. 

51:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, those are the best ones. I love doing it. 

51:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're using some real-life examples for this as well. We're using some real-life examples All right, how to be a capper. All right, how to be a capper. This is a thread, or like a long tweet, past the 280 characters. That really caught me this week. I'm going to read the whole thing. It'll take me a minute here. It's from Blaze Bets. If you're a capper or want to be a capper on X, read this. 

51:52
In this industry, you're only as good as your last bet. It's unfair, but it's the reality. When your page sees new followers daily, it doesn't matter if you've gone 10-0 over your last 10 bets. If a new follower finds your page at the end of that streak and immediately watches you go 2-10, they won't think you're any good. It leaves you with a constant feeling of pressure to perform and win. For some, it drives them to be better. For others, it's what destroys them mentally. If you haven't experienced this yet, be prepared, because that time will come if you stay in this game long enough, and if you ever start a VIP of any sort, it's this times a thousand. You have to truly love the grind. I say this all the time, but the mental aspect of being a sports better is just as important, if not more important than your actual process. 

52:34 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Master the mental side and let everything else fall into place this just feels like it's um a cause of the current like symptoms in in the gambling space. Because no real capper like I'm a real capper, my results are documented um, like it shouldn't really matter. I get what he's saying because you're always chasing new followers. Someone finds you, sees that pic. It's like that pic. Your reputation sometimes is on, whether you know it or not. Your reputation is on the line with, like you say, all these people that still don't know you. But there's people that come into you all the time and then they see you go for two or something and this guy's just fucking loser. Like I don't care that, like my other buddy likes him. But if you're a real capper and you've got a real documented record, like it's, it's all there. This is just if you're. This is like a warning sign. If you want to put up a front to be a TikTok Twitter video capper, like that's what this is. This isn't for a real capper, this is for, like, a social media. 

53:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This is a social media capper, like Justin Herbert, the social media quarterback. 

53:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that guy's a social media moron, so we got that too. Yes, but that's what this is. This isn't is a warning. If you just want to think you're good, it's all gonna be fun and games, putting out your favorite bed of the night like no, you're yeah yeah, this is the random guy who just posts his pics. 

54:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And when people say like okay, like you're posting all these horrible plays or your followers like oh, I'm good number three. Why does it matter? 

54:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
and he's also saying this guy, if you think your shit doesn't stink and you're good enough to sell picks, be prepared for an onslaught like you've never seen in your life. Potentially, but this isn't a warning to anyone in your ecosystem. 

54:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, but here's what got me about this whole thing. There was no reference to actual betting in here. Like the, the, the goal posts or let's even say the goals have moved so far where it's not about winning money betting on sports. It's about proving to other people that you're a winning better. Like it's so far removed from what I think about as a sports better and like, honestly, if someone can't discern that you go two and ten over 12 picks and you get closing line value, then like I actually don't even care anyways, whether or not they're following me, or like they're so far removed from what I actually it doesn't matter to me. There's like this constant, incessant need on twitter nowadays for everyone to feel that they're respected. Right, I go back I. You know what I we haven't included her on the show for a while, but I go to taylor mathis right when she has like a bunch of losing days in a row and she's like I'm working really hard on these picks, I'm trying. It's like who cares? 

55:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
who the? 

55:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
actual biggest. 

55:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, listen, there's a book on self-tells. Yeah, that she could write, but I like the. The biggest self-tells is when you tweet after a loss. You're totally in shock that this prop loss, that this is the first time in two months this guy went over an X stat. I grinded so hard into this. I'm befuddled by this result. You know like how on earth was Ezekiel Elliott not involved? 

56:05 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Are we allowed to swing on this show? 

56:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, I've done it a few times today. 

56:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Just fucking bet. Yes, if you win your bets, you'll have more money in your bank account, like who cares if you go 2- 10 and people start thinking you're bad? If you've won a lot of bets, you should have money and that's what matters, not if fucking user 1, 2, 3 thinks you're good or not. 

56:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But this is my point, kirk. I think that for that me and you that matters Like I honestly don't care. Sorry, I shouldn't say that I actually do feel bad. 

56:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I sincerely do. Well, you care a little because you acknowledge that there's a lot of this ecosystem that doesn't know who I am. 

56:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I get some of this stuff Like, for example, the Ford products best bet show. 

56:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Bingo. 

56:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like I sweat my best bet on that show harder than any other thing because I've given out publicly, I get that. But at the end of the day, like it's not my goal to just have people think that I'm the best bettor around. I don't care about that. What I care about is living a good life and retiring in five years. 

57:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
When you are the best bettor around. Does that mean you get to spend the next week after a winner subtweeting about your bet? 

57:10 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, a lot of subtweeting is happening in this new app To go around. 

57:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, you win the bets, but you guys would know that you give a bet Like I don't know, you share a bet, but then, like your buddies, rob, like your best friend, says, like give me a bet for today, and you give him that bet. Like him losing, you want him to win. Like you want to win for him more than like the thousand followers who saw you make this bet. 

57:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like that's who you're thinking of, at least well, there's some stuff that resonates with me, like there there is a pressure to perform and win. Like if you're giving out public plays, there there is an adamant added element of pressure there, period, because most of the time when you're betting yourself and I bet, I bet every play I give out. But if I go through a bad stretch or something like that, whatever I'm going to get over it, I you know, I I know over time it's going to balance out, whereas not everyone will will necessarily see that. But mostly for me it's about the people who might tail during that that stretch and I feel bad. It's never really about like, oh, someone's going to find me and they're going to think I'm a loser, loser, like I honestly don't care. Like I, I seriously I think it's. 

58:20
This is just like it's hard for me to wrap my again very boomer take here. I'm 37 years old, me 38, uh, you know this upcoming week very boomer take. But it's so weird for me to see where the industry is headed towards now, like so many influencers who give out bets that they don't bet themselves. Like I can't even imagine doing that. And then, on top of that, then feeling the pressure to perform for an audience because they want people to think they're a good, better, when they don't actually even bet like this is insane to me, yeah crazy just the last part of this tweet also pisses me off so much. 

59:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The mental aspect of being a sports better is just as important, if not more important, than your actual process. No, no, that is obviously not true, even a little bit. The mental aspect matters. Sure, it's important, but there's never been. You could be in the 100th percentile of mental resilience, but if you can't beat the market. You lose money betting. 

59:33 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You could be in the middle. You could keep getting up again and betting more. It's not gonna help. 

59:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, you could get off the mat, be strong, bounce back, but also but when he's saying that he's referring to, like twitter, menchies yes, he's just referring to mentions. 

59:48
Like, after a couple losses in a row, your mentions will turn dark or ugly or, you know, there'll be vitriol in there. That is what he's referring to, more so than any part of it. So it's just like um, if you just have, I don't have strong enough to be able to like not give a shit what people angry tweets that might come in your mentions. That's all this is referring to. 

01:00:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But also they put themselves in this situation. Them knowingly put themselves. If you don't, if you don't want to deal with people getting upset when you're losing bets, then don't fucking. That's what he's. 

01:00:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's what the tweet's saying but it's also crazy because to be like a hyper successful you're like a winning better. You're going to lose so much that by this there's going to be new people who see you every day and think you're a loser because well, there's lots of solutions to this. 

01:00:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
By the way, you could track on bet stamp. 

01:00:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You could track publicly track publicly yes even the best, better loses. 

01:00:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
How many like? What percentage of their? 

01:00:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
bets. Well, it depends on what their average price is, but like, yeah, my point is like it's almost impossible to win this battle. 

01:00:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
he's speaking of, if you know, 43% of the day someone's going to see. Can I give an analogy? 

01:01:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Go for it so in baseball the best hitters don't get a hit 70% of the time but because the stats are tracked. You see, oh he's batting 300. He's amazing, but it's tracked. So if you track your record and you're in profit and let's say you go, god forbid two and 10 over a 12 game. 

01:01:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Sample it seems like, but that's my point, yeah. So even the best hitter, like if there's people that haven't seen baseball before, uh, like this, like a new people to you, and they see, uh, you know, the best player strike out he sucks, yeah, but does that player care about random? 

01:01:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No, that's sort of the point. 

01:01:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
My point being is impossible. Care about random, no, that's sort of the point. My point being is impossible. What he's trying to get across, it's impossible to succeed at, because even the best better has, uh like loses a very significant number of bets. Yes, they'll win a lot more than they lose, but the number of losses. 

01:01:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like you're, you might give out a bunch of nfl spreads in a year. You go 54 and that and that's good enough to make a profit, but it's not really going to jump off the paper. 

01:02:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, so that guy's saying like to be the best bettor for every follower. You're going to lose. You're going to gain like 1.25. 

01:02:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah yeah, okay, that's. And if you start a VIP of any sort, it's times 1,000, jeff, jeff as well. 

01:02:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
it's so ridiculous what we've gotten to he's kind of talking to like there's other people that do it, but like you know, if you had a friend who was attractive and they wanted to get into like giving away milk picks, like read this I'm with you. 

01:02:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen, I'm okay with a sob story. I don't want to be heartless here or whatever. There is a mental component, but at the end of the day it seems very written If you survived high school on social media. 

01:02:47 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You're probably pretty fucking mentally resilient. I don't want to speak to the kids today. Facebook didn't exist when I was in high school. It was more of like the icq well, like a low profile, right, so didn't have like that non-stop seeing what parties you were weren't invite whatever that relentless yeah but if you are a kid today and you've come out of high school with your head on your shoulders in in some ways, you're probably pretty fucking resilient. 

01:03:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, all right, move along here. Real Fats, who I get to run into at Bet Bash every year, does he take a picture with you? No, he doesn't take a picture with me. Johnny also stiffed him at the speed networking last year as well, because I only know him by Fats. We don't know what his real name is, so his real name was very different than john. Anyways, long story, um, but regardless. 

01:03:41
Fats is watching uh espn and one of their hosts is giving out a bet which is an sgp uh three leg parlay, and fats does the calculations on what this parlay should actually pay and notices it's much higher. If you put these three legs and their prices into a parlay calculator, you get a $357.89 payout, whereas you're only getting plus 280 at ESPN bet. Now he's made the unfortunate mistake here of not realizing that these picks are correlated. It's Jameer Gibbs anytime touchdown with the Lions to win the game and over in the game Correlation priced in there. So definitely not going to get the payout without the correlation. Somebody points this out to him on Twitter and then he says there may be a correlation, but if that's the reason for the difference in payout, he should point it out. 

01:04:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
We point out it's the same game parlay right I like there may be correlation, like it's not the most obvious thing ever that if Jameer Gibbs scores a touchdown, the Lions are more likely to win. 

01:04:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
What is this guy supposed to say? Is he supposed to go to the pick and go? By the way, if you weren't aware, if Jameer Gibbs scores a touchdown, the Lions are more likely to win. Just so you know. 

01:05:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is just because don't get me wrong ESPN bet or some of the ESPN betting stuff or the content that's gone out on ESPN related to betting, has been kind of embarrassing and it's easy for bettors to pick that up. 

01:05:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's why Timothee Chalamet is getting standing ovations for his performance. You're right. 

01:05:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's all. Maybe part of the give and take on that. I'll respect that, but this is essentially at its core, like someone who is just foaming at the mouth to criticize ESPN espn bet yeah and it's like you see something and your brain stops working for a second because you just can't wait to like tweet out a criticism of this sham disney bet operation I'm kind of with you because I've been there before, uh, and people will make mistakes like listen you, you'll see that and maybe you didn't realize it's a correlated parlay. 

01:05:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The issue I have is in this space, there's this adamant refusal from so many bettors to just admit that they were wrong. 

01:06:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You said that last week, right, you said the same thing last week. 

01:06:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't even recall it. 

01:06:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Which is crazy because the best ones are wrong 45 percent of the time like they're wrong. So much as part of being like successful in some weird way that like admitting they're wrong is so fucking hard yeah I, I don't get it. 

01:06:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I, I listen. I've been guilty of this in the past before. I used to argue with people all the time where maybe I didn't have subject matter expertise and I you know. But nowadays I really try to make it clear that, like, if somebody points out something like, oh, you did the math wrong, I'm like, oh, I fucked up, my bad. Like it's okay nowadays to just like what? To Jacob's point what do you want this guy? Who's the host? Tyler Fulgham, or something like that. What is he going to do when he's giving out picks on the air every time? Like, by the way, all of these, priced individually, would pay out $357, but because of the correlation, it's plus 280. 

01:07:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
No, like it's ridiculous to expect that. He just could not admit he was wrong, so he had to find a way to not say he was wrong. 

01:07:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He got caught. He just wanted to like yell at ESPN bet, which is fair because we've all been there. 

01:07:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, and I get. There's a lot of reasons to want to do that, by the way, totally understandable. 

01:07:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But you also don't need to make one up, because they'll give you enough legitimate ones. 

01:07:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Just at this point. At that point, once you've been outed like this correlation, you go okay. 

01:07:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, there may be a correlation. I'm a fan, I am a fan of Fats, though it's hard. 

01:07:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's, there's something there, it happens. 

01:07:41 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
It feels very similar to me to the crack situation, honestly, yeah. 

01:07:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's a similar thing. I also feel the same about Fats as I do about crack. It probably was a successful better now kind of wants to be in the Twitter sphere, but was before it. I don't know if he's like actually winning better now Just kind of wants to be a part of it Like I appreciate. 

01:07:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
even as a GRP fan, I appreciate when fats like forensic accountants, GRPs, bullshit. It's one of my favorite sticks. 

01:08:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Actually, I really love fats for that. 

01:08:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So it's one of the things I enjoy a lot on the internet and you can't let George, you know, hide the. Get those free points. 

01:08:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No definitely can't. From one mistake to another, fanduel posted a price on Victor Wembyama to record a quadruple double plus $30,000. Dj and Eli did the math on this. There have been four quadruple doubles in NBA history, across a total of roughly 70,000 NBA games played by 10 starters each night. The fair price of a quadruple double, without accounting for player matchup, is plus $17,659,900. Yes, plus $17 million. I'll let you start, kirk. I actually didn't for a while know whether this was a joke or not. 

01:09:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Dead serious. 

01:09:01 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Dead serious tweet. 

01:09:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So one. There's this real trend of like posting oh this book is offering this crazy price. Like you could literally go into any game, click 10 plays in an SGP and it'll be just as bad as this. Wemby Nyama play like. Bettors should want books to post as many markets as possible. Why are we complaining about that? But then also DJ Nili, who sells picks sells picks, confirmed, like that. Why start at NBA starters like, why not just say any person who's ever existed? There's been four quadruple doubles, three billion humans sorry, 30 billion humans like let's just go from there. 

01:09:40
This is also if you're ever pricing a specific prop market that has to do with a player and you say, without accounting for the player, you're probably doing something wrong. So yeah, 17 million is just one of the worst prices ever, order of magnitude more off than fandle was off. So yeah, this is just I. I wish, I wish he could book me at at every game as much as he wants. 

01:10:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'll take seven million to one for wemby you would think that wemby is a bit of an edge case when it comes to quadruple doubles. 

01:10:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Possibly right, it's a bad bet bad explanation like wambanyama being treated the same as bob koozie, mugsy, both mugsy bogues, kendrick perkins the list goes on. You think of the funniest names out there? You're pricing it the same as a guy who has literally recorded a triple double with blocks before. Yeah, that's the comedy here I. 

01:10:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I like what you said right off the top. So, first and foremost, I think there's two things here. One, people love to complain. Now when these sportsbooks post prices that they don't deem to be fair. They're like, ah, this is one of the worst markets. First of all, to Kirk's point, we want as many markets as possible. We want all these things to be posted. Okay, it's very clear that we can identify that this is not a good bet. Some people might go and bet it. That's fine. That's their own prerogative. Guess what? They're betting their own money. They're allowed to bet whatever they want. Then there's the people who are like oh, there should be a two-way market. They should offer a no price. Guess what? No one's going to bet the no price. Who's? 

01:11:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
going to tie up? Bet the no price. Who's gonna tie up? They don't have to. 

01:11:15 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I actually don't think on this, bet I actually don't think they have, but let's definitely not who is gonna bet that not even a sharp is gonna tie up their money for alex baker for the entire year? 

01:11:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
as a joke. Yeah, for the screen grab. Yeah, he would literally for the for the engagement of the screen grab. I know a couple people who might fez is all over, that even fez wouldn't bet that. 

01:11:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's no way. Fez would bet that because there's not another sportsbook offering a comparable price that he can shop it against. So he's not going to know if it's truly a valuable position. 

01:11:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I love the concept. You just picture in your head and this is coming from an idiot himself, but you picture him working through the permutation to get himself there. Like him sitting at his desk doing the math, thinking that he has come up with some genius response. 

01:12:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He didn't think that hard man, Just Google. How many games has there been in his history To? 

01:12:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
just railroad FanDuel with his math, Like I can't wait to tweet this. 

01:12:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He double checks it to make sure it's free of a spelling mistake. Road fan duel with his math, like like I can't wait to tweet this. 

01:12:17 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, he, like you know, double checks it to make sure it's free of a spelling mistake and, like the satisfaction he felt, hitting send on the tweet felt so good. 

01:12:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And back to what we just said. Ollie, he should have just said hand up, this was done I got caught and he did not do that. 

01:12:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No. 

01:12:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Major mouth error Like self-owned 100%. 

01:12:39 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's move on. It's kind of become a joke now. I didn't include all the joke tweets, but people have been really pricing things very badly, mocking this tweet, which is kind of hilarious. 

01:12:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Well, one of my favorite ones I forget who put it, but one of my favorite ones was well, he could price it that when Ben Yama has never done it in any of his 88 games in his career, so technically he has a 0% chance of happening. 

01:13:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, yep, it's never happened before, it can never happen in the future. The classic classic, uh handicap right there. 

01:13:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So if you gave, I think so If he wants to do it one night and One night in the situation or the season the win-loss record sets up for it. I think he'd do it, I think the teammates would encourage it as it's happening, Not like before the game, but as it's happening. I feel like it would be encouraged. 

01:13:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It would be tough because I feel like he'd be on the rebounds and points fairly quickly. So the assists and then let's say blocks would have to come into play. So blocks you can chase, because you can just really go for blocks rather than avoiding fouls, like you can play aggressive there. Assists, it's kind of a bit more difficult because you can hunt assists. You can hunt it, but it's not like. 

01:13:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But can you hunt all these things at once? 

01:13:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, it would have to to be close late and then start hunting, but I honestly think for the career which might be. 

01:13:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's a long time, but like one would be almost an unfair. 

01:13:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I think you'd get one, so I don't think plus 100 right now. 

01:14:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I would bet a lot of money that he gets but would you bet minus one like you'd have to lay one quadruple double. 

01:14:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So you technically need one and a half to to cash multiple, I think I think the line is because I think one he will over one and a half favoring the under pretty heavily both sides, maybe like 160. 

01:14:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think one I would want to bet exactly one. 

01:14:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I feel like I'd get a push no, I feel like one would be. 

01:14:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'd at least get the push I think he's getting. At least one in his career is sort of what I'm saying, so. I feel like one is like a dead number one plus 100. 

01:14:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
both sides seems pretty fair. If you push on the one, yeah, got it. 

01:14:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And again he's done a triple-double with blocks before, so you just didn't get there with assists. This has not happened since 1994. It's only happened four times ever. But yeah, he's not your average NBA player. 

01:14:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Seven million to one average NBA player. We probably shouldn't lump in games that Muggsy Bogues started as the similar ones to Victor Wemba Nyama. We'll end it off with this. I get triggered by a lot of things. I like to include some stuff that's very personal to me in the show, maybe because it didn't blow up and especially there's certain characters on Twitter that find a way to really rub me the wrong way and it's a little bit petty. But I'm going to just include this one in the show anyways, because guess what? It's my show. I could talk about what I want to. 

01:15:24
Warren sharp at sharp football sent out our first td score today in our free mailer check mark david montgomery plus 475. This was the Packers uh Lions Thursday night football game. Get all our free plays in our free mailer. He includes a screenshot of the David Montgomery pick for the first touchdown score bet plus 475. The description for this bet reads the only way to get any value on the running backs in this game is to bet first touchdown, and Montgomery is the pick, with Jameer Gibbs potentially in the doghouse following a Thanksgiving fumble and social media posts revealing protection calls. Why this really upsets me is because this happens frequently. Every day I'm going to see come across a tweet that is similar to this, and I've just chosen to use this one. It is the old Barry Horowitz pat on the back for a winning play with the dumbest rationale possible that somehow cashes a bet, and I personally cannot imagine handicapping something so poorly still getting the win and then victory lapping like. That's not in my repertoire. 

01:16:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He could have victory, lapped it and just cut off the paragraph, like he could have just cut it off. Cut the picture off under the david montgomery plus four seven I agree five agreed I won. Here's my ticket, the explanation out. Some is like I didn't really know what I was doing, but I won well, explain why I was bad okay, but only way to get any value on the running backs is this game is to bet first touchdown. 

01:17:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's, that is erroneous. First, first of all, you don't have to bet at one sports book. You can have 10 sports books. You can find all sorts of valuable running back bets off market prices, whatever. In fact I did win some bets on running backs in that game. Uh, josh jacobs over was a bet that I won on rushing yards in that game very valuable bet I bet it at at 68 and a half, close 74 and a half. You could find valuable bets first and foremost. The second thing is the rationale is jameer gib Gibbs is in the doghouse so he's playing this because he thinks Jameer Gibbs is going to get less snaps, when in fact Jameer Gibbs was on for more snaps than usual on the first drive of the game. 

01:17:47
He got all the third down stuff. He took the first and 10 snap for the Lions in the red zone. They took a holding penalty. He remained on the field for the following. In the red zone. They took a holding penalty. He remained on the field for the following subsequent first down and second down. David montgomery comes in on third down from the three-yard line scores a touchdown. So it's everything is wrong about this. Congrats on the winning bet. I get it. People need to stop doing this. They need to stop doing this, are you? 

01:18:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
like you can go ahead. Sorry, I sorry, I agree, but I just mean like I think people all the time I like a team total under, sorry, I like a team total over, right? No, I like the team total under. And they went in the red zone nine times and kicked field goals and fumbled, yeah. And I'm going to like say yeah, like say yeah, I won my bet. Happens all the time win a bet, but the way I thought I'd win my bet like didn't happen. Now, this is like trying to play psychology with the coaching staff and having no idea is kind of silly because I don't think it could be a good reason to make a bet. 

01:18:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It could be like, if you actually believe listen this guy's in the dohouse, he's not going to get snaps early in the game. But, that wasn't true. It wasn't true. 

01:18:58 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Honestly, the thing that pisses me off most about this is I actually kind of interpreted the value sentence a little differently than you. I think he's saying that the only way to get value on running backs in this game is to bet first touchdown, because Gibbs and Montgomery are like minus 120 to score a touchdown. Got it? And he is just totally misusing the word value to mean you can't get a big plus number on them to get a touchdown. 

01:19:21 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So we'll take-. So we'll take equals, anything that's plus money. Exactly so it's like oh, tons of value. Look at that, plus 475, wow, the logic there just makes absolutely no sense. 

01:19:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So yeah, I'll be honest. It's like when an NHL team is like minus 200 and people are like I'm taking the puck line to get that value, it's like, well, it's actually just a derivative. 

01:19:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Exactly, it's the exact same value. 

01:19:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I agree. There's nothing you said that I don't agree with. I guess I just would have said like I don't know, there'll probably be other, better times to like get Warren no no, no, it's fine. 

01:19:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's all. This is one of many for rob you just have yeah I just reached the. 

01:20:01 - Timothee Chalamet (None)
You know like, you know how like anger builds and you just see something and you're like you know what, I'm not gonna say anything and then and then you just get to the point where you're like I got it, I. 

01:20:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I now have to say something. It is, by the way, I'm not suggesting it's not fine to you put effort into, into handicapping and betting you win a pick. You want to let people know I do that, other people do that. I would just say like there's times where you nail a handicap, you're like yeah, I like this because x, y and z and that comes to fruition and you fucking victory lap that to death. I don't care about that, but when you make a play based off of terrible rationale and it cashes, it doesn't sit well with you. 

01:20:46 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That also proves your rationale. 

01:20:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Enjoy your lucky win. 

01:20:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
In real time. It's proven to be wrong by the Gibbs usage on that drive. But I would say it's like you see cappers all the time they get a bad beat because something really stupid happens. They're like my process was good, wrong result, but right side. 

01:21:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Right side wrong result. I see that all the time and I agree with that. 

01:21:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, but there's also a lot of times I'm certain where, how your model because it's not really your opinion, but how your numbers say the game is going to play out, you bet on said game. You win your bet, but it didn't play out any which way as to how you expected it or your output expected that game to play out, you still won your bet. 

01:21:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You can say that though. 

01:21:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
For sure, I know, but that's. 

01:21:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
We didn't deserve it, but we got the win. But I'm saying it's like the same water. 

01:21:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You just hope water finds its level with the bad beats and the yeah. 

01:21:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But if that happens, then you don't go and brag about it. Yeah, of course. 

01:21:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And I agree this is what a true salesman does. This is like a classic salesman vibe, Because this easily could have been cash David Montgomery plus 475, got lucky expected him to have less snaps on the first, or expected Gibbs to have less snaps, but we cashed it. Something like that. 

01:22:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
We got lucky here, I was wrong, I know. I guess you just want people. 

01:22:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm nitpicking now, but I don't like the sales tactics. 

01:22:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I guess, but you're essentially wanting him to be like we cashed this sucker, I guess, but you're essentially wanting him to be like we catch this sucker. I was surprised and nervous when Gibbs got the first and goal. 

01:22:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's backstory here, right? This is someone who notoriously sends out lines that don't exist, right? So there's already Okay fine. 

01:22:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I would also say to you as, like a I don't know, I would feel like they're just to take there'll be other places. I feel there'll be other spots. Well, I'm sure there's gonna be other spots, I'm sure they're gonna show up on the show one, that's all. 

01:22:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But uh got it. It's fair, you're totally entitled to it. This one rattled me, man. It should, it, shouldn't it should. 

01:22:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'll go back to the espn bet one where, like you, can't expect warren sharp every time a play luckily wins to go through the whole backstory of why he was wrong. But it's still one. But don't, victory, let's, let's be as betters. 

01:23:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's root ourselves in reality. That's all I really wanted today. We got the win. 

01:23:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Didn't play out of the expect the people who are not rooted in reality, for the most part, are selling some sort of snake oil like you said, when the guy doesn't to have this sort of prominence that he has in the space. 

01:23:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But, like you, can't find the record you got Schefter tweeting out his guides, like Mina Kimes is tweeting out. 

01:23:30 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Even if you can't, even if you're like a paying subscriber, you still can't get access to the record. It's pretty weird. Yeah, you fucking said it. 

01:23:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We'll end on that today. Appreciate everyone who tuned in. Of course, smash that like button down below. It helps in terms of getting some reach for this program. Youtube likes it. Sends it out to other people. If you're not subbed here on Circles Off, make sure you do so. No-transcript.