00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

00:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Welcome to Circle Back, episode number 11, right here on Circles Off, part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Pinnacle. This is the show where we review the week that was in gambling Twitter and we react to a lot of those tweets that are out there Now. It's probably unusual for those of you watching to see me here solo in studio. I will be joined by Kirk Evans, Geoff Feinberg a little bit later on, but the first topic today directly impacts me and I want to address it solo here in the studio before we get into the rest of the show. 

01:02
I recently participated in a sports betting masterclass. There was a teaser video that went out earlier this week. It was met with a lot of feedback, so I want to get into that a little bit. I want to take a few minutes to address some of the criticism that I've received recently about my involvement in this sports betting masterclass. I've seen the tweets, I've seen the comments, the DMs. I think some of them are fair, some of them are unfair and some of them are outright absurd and, rather than ignoring it, I feel it's important to provide context and explain my perspective to clear up some of these misconceptions. So this is something I anticipated. Frankly, it's a conversation worth having because it touches on some broader issues in the sports betting space. 

01:46
First off, let me clarify how I got involved in this project. Masterclass reached out to me to be a consultant, and my initial role wasn't to be on camera. They wanted help designing a curriculum for new bettors and for bettors who have struggled with betting over time. Now it became very clear early on that their team are not sports betting experts. They didn't know much about sports betting and that's not surprising. They sought out subject matter expertise from me, which I respect. Now, one way or another, this masterclass was going to happen. I saw the names that were being floated as potential instructors for this course. I knew I had to get involved Without naming those names. Let's just say there were people being considered that had very large followings but little to no credibility in teaching sports betting, and it would have been a complete joke. You can't have people teaching market fundamentals when they don't understand or in some cases, they don't even believe in the efficiency of the betting market. So I saw this as an opportunity to steer the project in a better direction. I worked with their team to assemble the best possible group of instructors for this particular course. Some people declined for various reasons scheduling conflicts, other factors. Getting a bunch of sports betters together to do something like this is a lot more challenging than it seems. Not everyone in the course is there to be a teacher. Some are there to connect with the audience, to share their experiences or to even provide entertainment value, and this is a mix by design. 

03:24
After weeks of consulting, masterclass asked me if I would also appear as an instructor, and I agreed for a few reasons. One it aligns with my desire to educate. I've spoken before about how passionate I am about helping other bettors improve. This was an opportunity to do that on a massive platform. People have said, well, you already do this with Circles Off and they're not wrong. They're right, but Circles Off does not have the platform that Masterclass does, and this is an opportunity to reach a demographic that I would never be able to reach. It helps grow my personal brand as well. Let's be real being associated with a brand like Masterclass has value. I'd be lying if I said otherwise, but let me be explicitly clear. 

04:08
The money I made from this is insignificant. I don't get a percentage of sales. My participation wasn't driven by financial gain. It was driven by the opportunity to shape the course into something meaningful, and a lot of the backlash stems from this promo trailer. I get it. The trailer's flashy, it's dramatic. It's not the way I would have marketed the course, but trailers are meant to grab attention. That's what they do. It's thoughtful. It's targeted towards its intended audience, which is mainly beginners or casual bettors. The final product is very different. It's structured. It's an entry-level course designed for 98% of bettors, not the sharpest 1% to 2% who dominate gambling Twitter. 

04:52
If you've already consumed my educational content or you follow my podcast, this isn't for you and that's okay. It wasn't designed for you. Now let me address some specific criticisms. Why not do this for free if you care about education? It's a fair question. Honestly, I didn't even think about it at the time. 

05:08
Masterclass presented me with a contract. I agreed without negotiating. Let's not ignore the reality. I don't have the resources to produce a course of this quality or this reach on my own. If you pushed hard at me on this, I can't give you a great answer. Other than that, I just accepted things for what they were. You're pushing people towards sports betting, which is dangerous. Another criticism I understand this concern. Sports betting can be risky. Many people will lose money, but I believe education is critical in reducing harm. I believe education is critical in reducing harm. This course doesn't glorify betting. It provides tools and a framework to help people bet more responsibly. People are already betting. The goal is to educate them so that they can approach it in a more responsible way and avoid common pitfalls. The content isn't worth anything. Some people say this entire notion is insane. 

06:06
To me, during COVID, I wanted to relearn Python, a programming language. I took computer science in university. I never actually applied those skills for over a decade, so I needed a refresher. You know what I did. I paid for an online course to do so. I'm sure there were free resources available on YouTube, potentially even free courses. As a consumer, I made the decision to buy that class because I knew it would be focused and tightly packaged. 

06:32
This one cracks me up. It really does. If I had found this course 15 years ago, I would have saved tens of thousands of dollars. Everything in this course can be found online for free, sure, but the same is true for a resource like the Logic of Sports Betting, a great book that I often recommend to new bettors. All the concepts in that book can be found for free online, but nobody calls it a scam. Also, we exist in a time where companies spend millions of dollars investing in SEO. 

07:02
Google can be your friend, but in the sports betting space, it's just as likely to be your enemy. The beginner or casual sports better has zero idea how to separate what is real from what is not. If you're a nuance better, be honest with yourself. If you're a lifetime winner and you understand sports betting markets, google a few sports betting topics today and look at how many of the top ranking results are complete bullshit, written purely to rank highly in search engines. You're just doing this for fame and recognition. I mean, I knew I'd get flack for participating, especially because of who else is involved in the project. If being in this course makes people think less of me, so be it. 

07:43
My intent was to create something useful for new and struggling bettors. Plain and simple People are roasting friends of mine, nick Kostos and Joe Fortenbaugh, for being part of this. Here's the thing they don't portray themselves as sharps in the course itself, nor are they trying to be. They are trying to connect with everyday bettors. Without them, the course would have been worse. I firmly believe that Gambling Twitter is this echo chamber. The sharp side of Twitter makes up such a tiny fraction of the betting market. Most bettors don't know what closing line value is, let alone how to approach betting strategically. This course is for them. It's not for pro bettors. This course is intentionally designed for beginners. It's not Gary Kasparov teaching chess to other grandmasters or Steph Curry refining your jump shot to other NBA shooters. It's foundational. That's where the value lies. 

08:39
This crypto rug pull comparison might have been the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website. Comparing this course to a crypto rug pull is absurd. Even in an instance where this was a fraud which let me clearly state, it is not a fraud the consumer would lose what? $8 a month in subscriptions? It should also be noted I'm not a spokesperson for masterclass, but if they didn't get any value out of that $8, there's literally hundreds of other courses that are available where one could potentially find value Quite literally the dumbest comparison I've ever seen. The content is there, it's valuable for its audience and nobody is being misled. 

09:19
I also want to address Spanky's tweet. While I didn't like what he said, I don't think his comments were directed at me personally. He's a friend. I will address my concerns with him privately, but I will say this I believe the tweet was unfair. I don't think it's entirely truthful and I think Spanky knows better. But rather than get into all those reasons here, I will just address them directly with him on the side To the people criticizing me I get it From the outside. Looking in, I might feel the same way, but context matters. 

09:51
This course is for the vast majority of bettors who are struggling to find their way. If you're not in that group, great, this isn't for you. But for those who are, it's a resource that can genuinely help. When people say this is all so basic, it's like yelling at Gordon Ramsay for teaching beginner level cooking or Tony Hawk for teaching someone what an Ollie is. The course is designed for its audience, not for pros. 

10:17
There are, honestly, a lot of people who even responded to my post that very clearly could benefit from this course themselves. At the end of the day, I'm very happy with the final product. Responded to my post that very clearly could benefit from this course themselves. At the end of the day, I'm very happy with the final product. I stand by my decision to be part of this project. I'm proud of what we created. I'm confident it will help a lot of people. 

10:35
If you want to criticize, that's fine, I get it, but at least understand the context before you're passing your judgment. For those of you supporting the course or just engaging in good faith, thank you very much. And for the critics, your feedback is fair. But I hope this gives you a fuller picture of why I'm here. I chose to do this. I'm now joined in studio by Kirk Evans, jeff Feinberg, the producer, jacob the giant Grimenia behind the glass there. So yeah said my piece on Masterclass. I'm interested in getting your guys' perspective. I wanted to address it because there were so many things I didn't like that were being said, which everyone's entitled to their opinion. I think people really stretch the truth a lot. I actually don't even know why some people were not even like. I don't even know why they were mad. 

11:44
They're just like oh you fucking sell out you this and that, like whatever. Each to each their own, just curious, and I I want you to speak your mind like exactly yeah, if you have had a negative reaction to me putting out a masterclass, I want to know. I'll start with you, kirk. What was your or your first thoughts? 

12:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, I think you know I would talk shit even about you if, if I deemed it necessary, honestly, I didn't have that hot of a take on masterclass. I really thought that, like you knew when you did it, people on Twitter were gonna be mad about it, and I thought there were a couple things like in the teaser there was mention of like Celtics 12 to 1, but you could pick off a 16 to 1. 

12:25 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, bad example. 

12:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's a pretty bad example. But also a lot of the criticisms were like oh all this information is public, like you could find it for free, blah, blah, blah. Like I think people really, when they're in it and are winning gamblers, they don't realize it's hard to find strategies to win and to know what is legit. So masterclass makes sense. There's a lot of reach. 

12:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I didn't have that strong of a take on that all right, I figured you would be the one that would have really roasted like I was expecting. You know, knish posted is this a parody? Which I laughed at, which I got him back this week, by the way, because I found a video of him saying, like travis hunter cannot win the heisman from hit the heisman from hit the books. And I posted is this a parody as well? So I I it came full circle. But jeff, uh, I don't know. 

13:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Thoughts on your end I think I I see it, or I have a bit of a different perspective you knew this was happening. 

13:17
I knew it was happening, not only because you told me, but because you bailed on coming to a trip to Montreal for the President's Cup because of a scheduling conflict. So I sort of had some background on that. And then even remember speaking to you on the golf course this summer about it, like not that you were hesitant to do it, because you saw it as like a great opportunity to get some extra, uh, reach outside of the twitter sphere that is yelling at you, uh, but you knew there would be blowback, like. I remember talking to you about it in the summer. You knew this wasn't going to like land softly on the internet. 

13:55
Yeah, even before there was a lot of like massaging of it and my only take on it, I guarantee you, if there's one on barbecuing or there's one on making cocktails and bartending, someone's getting yelled at Yep, like the dude. The master barbecuer is getting yelled at by people on the internet telling him how bad he put on the seasoning. Yep, and whoever's making that old-fashioned as a bartender master class is getting yelled at for how he did something. So, uh, you know there's just so few opportunities to really like grow reach on in gambling and that's why there's so much emphasis on, like, some of the espn contents and the espn bet stuff because of the reach that espn has and those people have a platform that really no one else in the space has. Yeah, there's also a lot of jealousy because there aren't many opportunities to do that in gambling twitter. You were selected to be one of those people. No one, none of your peers, would have said no. 

15:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't think so either and like a lot of people, listen, we'll move on to another topic in a second here. But the big thing for me is that I do make my living off of betting, off of betting sports. Like people don't understand, they're like oh yeah, you know Pizzola has to run a content company or whatever. I'm not paying myself anything out of Betstamp, I don't pay myself anything out of the hammer right now, and to me I've always been able to sustain things via betting. But to me there's also big time prime opportunity in this space, especially for someone like myself who's already built up a following. Listen, not a huge following, but I do have some reach. And that leads me into our next topic. Like you look at, this week odds jam was acquired by uh gamblingcom group. They paid 80 million dollars up front for odds jam, plus up to another 80 million in incentives for performance. That's coming up over the next year as well. You had this, you had book it sports, who reached a exclusive partnership with PrizePix. Prizepix is already their partner, but now it's exclusive. It's a multi-year deal that extends through 2027. 

16:10
There's a lot of money to be made outside of purely betting in the sports betting space and I mean like this to me is the. The odd jam was the first thing I saw this week. Right, and there's this common consensus amongst the sharp gambling twitter community of like, if you have an edge in sports betting, just bet it, just bet your edge, just do that right, and anything else is frowned upon. I am gonna guarantee you that that Alex Bonahan made a shitload more money off of starting a company in the betting space. He is a sharp better himself, with a top-down approach, could have been betting all this stuff himself forever. He's not going to make anywhere close to what he's made off this sale of odds jam. So to me, like, these things get conflated a lot of times and I think people's motivations are often questioned in the space by other people who are used to doing it in one specific way. To me, there's not one specific way to do sports betting. 

17:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I totally agree. So I think Monahan is a really good example of someone who really frustrates me. But also, like, talk your shit he got. He'd be fucking laughing in your face right now Absolutely. But I never criticized him for doing Odds Jam. Like obviously he was kind of first on the scene and I would say that a lot of the criticism of like I think you're kind of conflating two things. I don't think any sensible person would say that Monahan maybe at the start of Odds Jam but obviously now made a mistake by starting it and building this company. Like I think for a while we've known that he would have made more money off Odds Jam than betting his own stuff versus the tout that actually does win but bets 50 bucks and sells his plays and makes like 2000 a month. 

17:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
those things, sure. But when Odds Jam first came on the scene, like when they were still released and I know this because we had a competitor in Betstamp Now, one of the differences is how far you're willing to push the envelope. Right. Like I am not a John Hileslop or Alex Monaghan personality where I'm gonna record a video every day, and like you gotta bet this. It's just not in my nature, that's not what I wanna do. But from a business strategy it's huge. But they were getting like a shit ton of pushback in the early going about. Well, if this is so good, why don't you guys just bet it yourself? Like that was the pushback? 

18:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, I think that's fair and obviously monahan like comes out on top in this argument. The real thing that pisses me off about monahan is he talks about line movement like it comes from a godly source. He's like oh, you don't want to be an originator, just follow the line movement. But he never acknowledges that those line movements come from originators. 

18:54
So that annoys me and I find when I interact with him on Twitter he actually knows kind of a shockingly small amount about gambling for being a literal 100 millionaire in the gambling space. But again, how can I talk shit? The guy made 80 mil plus. 

19:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Good for you. Yeah, I don't know what percentage he owns of Oz Jed, but he did fairly well for himself. 

19:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, he gets, he wins, he wins, he wins. There's just no doubt about it. 

19:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean, I have never felt the problem of someone smart enough to make good money betting being smart enough to start a company, so that's never been an issue On my end. Full marks man to Monaghan. Uh, anyone like it's. Any time you get to pull that off, like you said, take your bow. My question would be just in the like macro view of these purchases. Now, we saw a lot of them during like uh, the height of uh regulation and COVID and we know all those deals like no one got even close to a return on their investment. 

20:00
there were some pretty big dollars paid and because the affiliate industry is kind of dying out so now I would say is, is gamblingcom group coming in now on like, uh, on the low here, I, I, or is this like I'm just saying because it everything has taken a dip? Yeah, every. That doesn't mean there still isn't incredible opportunities. But, like I'd say, do you expect this one to land like the others, or is this one actually going to pay off? Because nothing is paid off. 

20:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I think the big difference with a company like Odds Jam is they affiliate, but they also have a subscription-based product that generates a lot of money. So I think there's like a fallback there where people think, well, okay, let's, if the affiliate you know money dies off and sports books cut their affiliate programs, at least there's like this secondary money-making revenue generator within the company itself. I don't know if it's a good deal or not. I think it's a fair deal based off of the financials that I saw for acquisition. But I mean, listen, there's inherent risk in acquiring these companies if you start to get like consolidation in the betting space. Well, that's what I was going to say. 

21:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know Odds Jam Financial so it's hard for me to say if it was a good deal or not. But the problem with Odds Jam for me is it's a company that cannibalizes itself. The more users, users, it has, the worse the product is, because more people are looking for these odds discrepancies and also, as a company, you're relying on these books having these discrepancies. So like already we're seeing pretty much every book other than fan and draft kings becoming collude not even colluding, just kind of withering away. 

21:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah. 

21:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So it's you know, in five years odds jam could be just like edgeless. So I don't know. It's an interesting question. 80 million is a lot of money, but I don't know how much they're generating on subscriptions. But it's not a business model I'd really want to be at. 

21:55 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm sure that there might be an example that I'm not thinking of, but like? Has there been a private equity win in the gambling content space yet? 

22:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I guess Portnoy buying back Barstool from Penn. 

22:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It was a huge win. I don't know if that counts. 

22:14 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Huge win, but I feel like that's its own own own um. 

22:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
yeah, oh monster but even like pen, like such a yeah, like a huge, yeah, a huge loss. 

22:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So I'm still waiting for the first like clear win out of one of these acquisitions, not from the seller buddy, laugh it up, level up, yeah, level up. Completely agree with you. 

22:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, the only thing I'd say about, like, monahan gets level up, level up. Completely agree with you. 

22:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, the only thing I'd say about Monaghan gets to level up in life and that sounds fucking fun. 

22:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Absolutely. The thing about Au Gym is I wouldn't say it's a content company, I would say it's a software company. It is, it is, so it's a bit different than I would say the it's a combo of both. 

22:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They do really good marketing. They do a good job marketing, but it's a tech company. It's no different than what I would consider Betstamp to be a tech company. 

23:03
The values in the software itself. There's a big marketing engine behind it and that pushes it even further. And look at Bookit. Right, bookit is not a software company, they were. At the beginning Bookit had had an app which I still never understood the premise of what they were trying to build and credit to them. They pivoted away from that a while ago and said, you know, fuck this app which again, I don't even really know what it was for, people posting pics like trying to build it just didn't work. But they now secure a deal with prize picks and this is pure content play like they have pivoted to. 

23:42
And I mean I, I really like the premise of book. I I know a lot of people in the sharp community always come after me and they're like, oh, like, how can you say that? Or what. I like the premise of booking guys and girls younger, being like filming content in a house together going to sporting events, filming content together, betting for the enjoyment of betting. 

24:04
Now I will say there's a couple people within the brand I'm not going to name names that drive me up the fucking wall because they think they're like billy walters of of sports betting and they're super sharp when I think from the outside, looking in the sharper, people in the industry can realize that they're not, but this is like they found a partner that really works for what they're building. To me, the majority of the creators especially Trent, who I really like as a content creator puts himself out there as like I'm a fucking loser. This is what I am, I'm gonna like. This to me is a match made in heaven, and people are just like shit all over it, like, oh, like sports book in bed with a bunch of losers and what it's like. Yeah, but they say that like it's. This is a recreational sports book platform that found recreational betters, who, for the most part, claim that they're recreational betters, and that's to me, is just like a great business model. 

25:00 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm is just like a great business model. I'm happy for them. Honestly, I got no problems with it. I don't know who everyone is in that picture, but the ones that I do. I feel like I'm supposed to dislike them way more than I do, because I don't uh I have some strong dislike for a few here, but it's also like. 

25:14
To me, the trend stuff is if you're not, if you can't catch on to that, after taking like one lot, like after taking one loss, like if you're buying any of it as as real, I mean it's funny and it's good. But if you're like believing that this guy has an edge, or he's sharp, or like knows what he's doing, after taking like one loss with you and your buddies in the frat house, then that's Darwin, like survival of the fittest Weeding out the week. As much as I'm like auntie some of the Incredibly auntie some of the promotional stuff that like sportsbooks do themselves, and like the predatory Practices of showing up in your email telling you to do this. It's like the liquor store doesn't do that, right, right. So some of that. But I don't. If you can't like differentiate what this content is, then I don't know. 

26:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Then I feel like this is where darwin needs to come in and and, uh, whittle you off a little bit yeah, I think that what pisses me off with the sharp betting community is sometimes we act holier than thou, yeah, and are like, oh, these people are doing stuff wrong. Trent's leading people to losing money. At the end of the day, for us to be able to make money, we need people like Trent to be successful that it need losers yep industry that is how it works. 

26:37
So to act like oh, he's so toxic, blah, blah, blah. It's like the sports books need to make money, for us to make money, so if you're not doing anything, that's like outright scamming people selling things that are obviously misleading. 

26:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah it's hard to line up, like some small things. I'll let you go in one second it's. There's little things that bother me, like putting out a a sharp report every day right. It's like you don't need to lean in. People are not watching you, because they actually at least I don't think so they probably know their demographics better than me. I don't know people who are really. I think a lot of the people who are betting people will literally bet Trent's picks Again. What they've done really well is the that's okay. 

27:19 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The sense of community Like ride or die with me, and some people know what's going to happen and this might be like a gross thing to say to the people who watch this, but maybe a lot of people who watch this like bet for their living and it is their source of income and, like you said, have this attitude. There's just the people that aren't betting for their living. Get ready, I'm going to say it. Not every bet needs to be plus Evie. It just doesn't. I'm sorry for you and what you do. 

27:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it absolutely does, but even, but for these guys are not all plus sure but for Trent, like it is, I I have no problems with it. 

27:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It is very much like you mentioned Barst it it is very much like you mentioned Barstool before. It is very much like Big Cat and Dave. They do big shows, they acknowledge they're getting fucking worked. They're getting worked Like eight minutes into Saturday, instant regrets. But, and I guess to your point, you're like. You just wish the whole operation would be a little more authentic with like, because there's some fringes of the operation that like to act like they're true. Yeah, you got to be tailing me, like you know like I don't. 

28:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't like that, but people convince themselves that that's the case and I know I did that. Ok, so like this is hypocritical. But Jeff, you worked with me in my early twenties, okay, and you probably will remember when Gabe Maranci got fired at the score, I got fucking launched in one day I showed up to work. They're like you're going on TV on on what was it? 

28:49
Game on, whatever it was today, yeah, and I didn't give it no picks and I'm like all right, and within like two months even though, like, I convinced myself that I was like this elite better on, because in a hot streak when I started this show, people are messaging me on this I see people at Woodbine, fallsview Casino like, off Pizzola, I'm fucking tailing your picks, I'm making a killing and it got to my head and I understand that and I get it. In hindsight it's very embarrassing because I had zero edge, but I convinced myself that I did and eventually I learned that I didn't when I lost enough money. But that's what I don't love about. I think they you could just be authentic. Just don't mislead, just don't mislead, that's it right, like you said. 

29:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You laid it out. I have no issues with the operation of you. You know, casual fans Sorry, hardcore sports fans, betting like I don't want to say recreational, because it's above that. 

29:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But it kind of is yeah recreational, I think it's fair. 

29:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's fine to bet, but I got really no issues with it. Part of me is supposed to be bothered. You see that picture You're supposed to like be turned off by all of them, trent, especially as the captain'm like congrats to them. And and you, price picks, great partner agreed, because I also believe I've said it before and I'm probably wrong, but I feel like price picks is, they're like a level I I just feel like it's more of a game it is. 

30:18 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But but listen, I will say this I'm not going to slander PrizePix. I only had one conversation with PrizePix about sponsorship for a Hammer program, like a year and a half ago. They're very clear in what they want and this is a brand that fits really well for them. Social media platforms constantly tweeting out pictures of the platform and the app. People that are betting you're going to drive engagement with their product. I get it. It's a match made in heaven for all of them. I I just think that you just be upfront about that right. Like, at the end of the day, any someone like me I can't really even make bets at prize picks, not because of like I know I would just top down, approach prize picks and find edges and that's not who they want. 

30:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So I completely get it but also even from go with your fresh account. Your limits aren't even that high. They're any like. That's what I mean. 

31:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Product, that's what it's fine, I'll be promote I'm. I will promote rec products because there's a uh like people, how can you possibly promote this sportsbook? They're going to limit the, but they're very like, clear and upfront with who they're looking for as a player. And listen, you might have an issue with regulation in the space and sportsbook should have to take these types of limits or whatever. But this is, this is. I'm just living in reality here. I'm rooted in reality, not this fucking fake la la land of every sportsbook on the planet wants to be like pinnacle or like Circa. It's just not like that. That's just not reality. And the vast majority of people, if you ask them their goals as a better, you ask me it's to make money, and if I wasn't, I could pretty easily just cut off betting because I would consider it a time suck or a waste. But for a lot of people it's just to enhance their entertainment experience and that is totally fine agree, for a lot of people it is a I mean, I don't. 

32:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm pretty boring. There's not much I care about, but there are very few things I care about and those things I care about like way too much, which is its own thing, all is that. That's just to say all the bets don't have to be plus evie and betting is a hobby and it's okay. Hobbies are okay to be expensive. Yeah, I'm with you like a good hobby is expensive, agreed right uh, moving it on. 

32:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
espn pr tweeted espPN sports betting analyst Erin Kate Dolan continues her impressive win rate of NFL best bets. Check out Dolan's next analysis with a time of the show and there's a graphic accompanying it ESPN bet live NFL best bets Erin Dolan 84, 38, and 1, plus 38.9 units all time since joining ESPN in December 2021 um 29 and 10 since the start of the 2023-24 NFL playoffs 23 and 9 during this NFL regular season um. I'm not in love with with this. 

33:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I would love to be a fly on the wall of how this came to be, like who put it together? Because I will say, my initial reaction was, like a lot of people give out picks. Yeah, maybe she just ran insanely hot, but then I did the math on it as did, as did plus ev analytics did, and it's just so egregious that it's. 

33:36
It's certainly not true. So yeah, I just kind of want to know was there just a guy in the back who was like all right, I'm deciding this is the record, or was it they scrolled through her picks and didn't include a lot of them? I'm just curious as to how it happened, because it's pretty egregious. 

33:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It gives like early action network Rovellian vibes. 

33:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I love when you say Rovellian, I love that well, it's like a nomenclature it's not just like a human yeah, absolutely you 

34:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
have to. You know, pay it that respect. Yeah, where you could instantly like okay, you get the concept. You're trying to show off the record that she knows what she's talking about, she's fine, she's not like bad at the job. But the way you portray it and the terminology and how you go about it just shows like it's a self-help. There's a lot of like self-owning from like not her, but like the department. Yes, where it's like the people behind, even like there's a producer who passed this information on to chiron and like said like we want this, this, this, highlight it. You don't want to bang on some kid who like made the graphic, but it's the info chain from the producer of the show to be like we want this graphic promoting aaron in this way, but then it comes off. You know it ends up being a little more embarrassing than they well, more embarrassing, certainly, than they well more embarrassing, certainly, than they intended when it was supposed to be a promotion. 

35:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, so the math that was done was she would be in a 99.99% percentile of bettors if she was flipping a coin. Now, plus EV analytics, he's assuming that she's a coin flipper of a better. Some may argue that she's not. 

35:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's not there Almost certainly. 

35:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But where is? Because, listen, the operation has its flaws and, like I mentioned in one of my bits on the masterclass, like the ESPN bet stuff, yeah, it's like people are foaming at the mouth, right, it's almost like we saw Fats get on him last week, because he just was so wanting to bash him so bad he misread the thought, it just didn't come through properly. 

35:53
And ESPN. But there are people there I'm just going to call it a friend who I know knows what he's talking about there, like where's Fortinbaugh Yep, who was also, ironically, part of the master class, yep, not as a master, by the way, just as providing color to situations. 

36:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But where is like, someone like? 

36:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
that to be like guys. This doesn't do what you want it, what you think it's doing. This is actually not the look you want. If we want to do something like this, we need to do it this way. 

36:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
At the time of this recording, that tweet had 2.7 million views or impressions. I went through an insane amount of the comments on this tweet and the quote tweets and I'm not exaggerating when they were 95% plus negative there were. There was one thing that really stood out to me, which I think is completely fair, which is okay. Where is she betting these? Is she betting these? And if it is, at ESPN bets, why is it that if I come remotely close to getting this type of record, I can no longer bet at this product? 

36:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Let's go. 

36:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And that is like a truly fair assessment If you want to promote your your winner, your analysts having a great record at ESPN bet. I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way when people who win can't bet at ESPN bet, it just does not work. So there is a conflict of interest here. For one Second of all, this is like and again, I'm actually aaron kate dolan did nothing wrong here, this is just. You know, she got a lot of negative grief for this type of stuff. 

37:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
There were some funny jokes, mike she only might have done something wrong, having worked in places before. Yeah, where she is like screaming this is my record. Why aren't we promoting? 

37:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it well. Maybe I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but we've been played like yeah I have seen that. Why did you but you? You said I lost three picks on the show yesterday. How come you didn't say I won, went five and won the day before. 

37:52 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's like so, like you never know, and they're like, okay, we gotta make it. I'm not saying that happened, but I'm saying there's a scenario where the talent could be like this is what I want. Yes. 

38:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Promote it. So I can tell you right now I didn't mean to do a bad impression of a female. 

38:07
Well, okay, there's been worse out there before I've heard Bill Burr does a really bad one. It always really aggravates me. I love Bill Burr, though I have like the tout Spidey sense. I though I have like the tout Spidey sense. You know, I think you have this too, kirk. 

38:23
It's why we're so abrasive on Twitter. It's I can see something and I'm like this is there's something here that's not right? Right, so for me, this is the best bets that she's given out. My immediate question is are there bets that are not best bets? Are there other segments where she's giving out picks? Have we just now cherry-picked a smaller sample out of a larger sample? 

38:46
So I go over to her Twitter account and I notice that she's often tweeting out these three-game parlays and some win, but a lot of them lose. Are they included in here? I don't know. Almost certainly not. The fact, though, that nobody, nobody, nobody on the planet can seem to verify whether this is true or not is a real fucking problem, and to my whole thing is, by the way, I get why this doesn't happen, but why can't we just include the records on the shows in real time, as they're going on like am I? Am I gonna stop watching ESPN NFL countdown when they show Erin on the screen and it says oh, you know, she's whatever, let's say below 500. Is that gonna be like? I'm turning this off? I'm never watching this again. Like, why can't transparency? 

39:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
actually be a thing. I just don't think it's in their best interest. But I think this is kind of a joke. But I don't think it's in their best interest. But I think this is kind of a joke, but I don't think it's. If it was the opposite, or she was negative 10 units, I just don't see how that would Well. 

39:45 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it would never be promoted if she was negative 10 units. 

39:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Exactly. I just don't see how that benefits them. 

39:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I know you, I know, like what you're asking for and holistically sure, but that would be like why aren't the like new shows listing like what this person was right about and what this person was wrong about, like? 

40:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it's for clicks. Yeah, you can't like. It came from an espn pr account. This is a public relations tweet. They are purposely trying to get her out there as like an expert in the space or whatever, but it's. It did have some incredible blowback when there's a million people who are responding and being like fuck, like. I've been watching this show for years and I'm betting, so I don't, I'm, I'm not seeing these winnings like what's happening here. It's, it's been met with extreme negativity and it should. 

40:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I'm just saying you like, what you're asking for is just so unrealistic but basically, why is it? It is unreal, it would be like it would be like asking these, like the opinion hosts on cnn, to be like I was right about this person, like I was right about what should have happened with this issue I was wrong about this issue, I was right about that like they're not gonna. It's like you just say what you gotta say about the game and it's for yeah, but this is easily. 

40:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's different, like you. There's what you got to say about the game and it's for yeah, but this is easily. That's different, like you. There's right and wrong. There's right and wrong in sports betting. It's, it's it's in the result. Did it win, did it lose? Period? 

41:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
they just don't want to expose their hosts. 

41:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, I, I get that, but but is it an? Is it exposing them? 

41:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
no, because you're right, because, to your point, nobody. We've already brought it up. Big cat will literally be like I'm down 35 units on college football this year and I don't think anyone is turning. If you're listening or watching that, yeah, I don't think you're turning it off after he says that they present these segments and aaron dolan as, like experts, big cat would never present himself as an expert. 

41:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's part of the problem, so it just is a bad luck if they're down a lot. No, that's a good point, I agree with you in like theory it would be the best thing to do, but I agree it's never going to happen. 

41:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like sure, there should be a place where you can see every single bet that she's made since joining the NBA yeah, in December 2021. 

42:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, but it could have just been on screen on a weekly basis. 

42:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You know what you need. 

42:06 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It could be underneath her name tag when it comes up on screen. 

42:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, someone needs to go into a diner and put on his cape. 

42:14 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Someone does need to do that. Get a notebook out. Get a notebook out. 

42:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's a lot of. I mean if he could go back, right? There, right there I mean I'm supposed to believe this BS. If I documented her in a notebook, the truth would come out. 

42:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean the most totally off topic. Sure, and I don't think he's trolling, but George's ability to take credit for, like anyone using a notebook, but George's ability to take credit for like anyone using a notebook, like there could be a receptionist who's like I just got this new notebook and he would quote tweet that being like see, look what I've done. 

42:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah he's separate. 

42:54 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that was yes I was surprised. 

42:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
None of you have mentioned the the middle portion here since the start of the 23-24 NFL playoffs. That's a pretty cherry-picked segment. 

43:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I didn't even know it was an end point. Well, it doesn't matter if it's an arbitrary end point. If she's 84-38-1 all time, yeah, sorry. 

43:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So clearly. She went 6-1 in last year's postseason. Boys, there you go. 

43:21 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Which I think would have worked better for this tweet saying 6-1 in last year's playoffs. Since the playoffs are starting soon? 

43:26 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, but it reduces the sample. It reduces the sample. That's the problem. 

43:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
There's a million things wrong. Who cares? 

43:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think it would be easy to have all that Just because, like you do, having a bit of background in, in, in media, I really am just curious about the origin story of this. Yeah, I would love to. 

43:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm going to tell you what like the problem is, and we've worked in this space before and I think you brought up a very valid point of like behind. The problem is behind the scenes. Nobody fucking knows I can tell you this first hand experience with, with, with the master class project. And it's not, it's nothing, they're very good people but they are skilled in production they don't understand. 

44:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
And and the thing about sports gambling or the sports gambler. And again, sometimes it's what? Like rovelle, yep, you can't. You talking to a sports gambler? They can tell by your terminology or how you phrase things in a matter of sentences, whether, like they want, whether a you can hang, whether they're going to stay here or where they know. You're just a total fraud who's got no clue and you can misspeak on something, but you'll, you'll make it up in the next sentence. 

44:41 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Listen. I watch NFL Countdown. I have it on my screen in the morning before and while I'm doing Pizza Buffet on Sunday mornings on the Forward Progress YouTube channel I see when the picks go up. I can hear, because I'm not listening to anyone else. I've seen Aaron's segments before. Because I'm not listening to anyone else. I've seen Aaron's segments before and the reality is I know that someone who goes on the screen and says I like this team in the NFL this week, this spread I'm like you can go to Pinnacle. Right now they're taking 50K on the game. Circa's taking another. The market is extremely inefficient. You have no edge at this time. But no one else within these productions actually knows that and I'm not saying they should come out and frankly say it. 

45:25 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I get why people give up picks. I, I get it, but it's sunday morning. 

45:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
People want just want the milk. 

45:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes people just want the milk, but then don't do this. 

45:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, give out picks for sure. Yeah, but don't I get it like sunday morning? 

45:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
noon you're making your picks like that's fine let's not pretend that aaron kate dolan is has an edge on and picking nfl games at 11 30 am on a sunday. Let's not pretend that. Agreed, but let's. That's all I'm asking for. I have no issues with aaron kate do. Yeah, I think she's very good in front of a camera, not just because I think she's attractive, she also has good camera presence. I can understand entirely why she is on a broadcast. Don't get me wrong. I get the whole business. I get it. Let's just not pretend like you're going to go and make a ton of money betting Aaron Kate Dolan's picks. Totally agree. That's where I'm at. On it All right, oh, we did. 

46:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Which tweet in particular did you want to say? Yeah, I just loved it so much, let's give it some shine. All right, this truly is a fed time, mike tweeted ah, just lost my Ace account. 

46:31 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ace is a PPH and he posted a screen capture of a dm. Hey man, just noticed your tailing picks from aaron dolan at espn. The rules clearly state we don't accept or pay out sharp action, so I have to shut you down. Mike vivian is a is a legend in this space honestly shout out to mike yeah make sure you let your uh, your wife, know. You were mentioned again this week on circle back that's a great tweet. 

46:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that was like a frozen rope in the gap. 

46:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So good frozen rope in the gap that was hit out of the fucking ballpark chat that made it over the green monster fenway into my fucking parking lot over there mike's got a good slugging percentage definitely um, all right, vegas. 

47:09
No, I love when I see vegas nose on on the rundown. I love when we get to this stuff, rio stays true tweets. Let's talk about this now. There's an accompanying image here, which is a fan duel market of either player to be an anytime touchdown score in the thursday night football game between the rams and the 49ers. So you could bet cooper cup or puka nakua at plus 350, debo samuel or cooper cup at plus 380. These are mistakes. These lines are mistakes. They're not priced properly. So rio says they list these by mistake. Everyone nukes them. They could have easily voided them and chalked it up as a mistake, gave everyone their money back, but they didn't. They let the bets ride and guess what? The game ended in no touchdown being scored. Question mark. Question mark question mark. 

48:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
There's also a dot dot, dot, which I didn't include at the bottom, but yes, the implication is that FanDuel, once they realized they made a mistake, worked with the NFL and Goodell to make sure there were no touchdowns in that game. 

48:16 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Someone's got to walk me through this man. Someone has to walk me through how there are people on the planet that what like? Let's think about what. This is what he is suggesting, insinuating in this particular spot, which is fanduel fucked up. They posted a market which, frankly, not a lot of people are going to anyways, it's a deep down very market smaller limit type of market. Bunch of people went to town on it. Then one trader he was like fuck we gotta make the call we built up a huge liability here. 

48:52
We we gotta make sure that none of these players there's got to be no touchdowns tonight or we're gonna have to pay out big. So they get on the phone, presumably with uh, roger goodell, fanduel headquarters calls up. Goodell says goodell, we need no touchdown score tonight they three way in the call shanahan. 

49:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They could they reach? 

49:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
out to both teams. Somehow it also ends up with the worst weather that we've seen on thursday night football in a while torrential downpour. They called the cia as well, to control the weather, like what. What is wrong with people like this is a real tweet, by the way, this is real, this is not. 

49:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Replies are real. 

49:28 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
The replies are very real what's the logo beside his name? Beside real yeah. 

49:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Who is that Number two? 

49:35 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, no, no. 

49:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He's saying like the bedding, he's for sure I'm like, oh, he's got the check mark. 

49:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
And then what I don't know what that I'll look it up. 

49:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah. I don't know what that logo is in particular. I have an issue. I have a small issue with it, but that guy's an idiot. Yeah, I will, oh yeah, but you bet it, you bet, you bet it. 

49:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
As you should have. 

49:59 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's offered at a very bad price. Take your shot, sure, but don't fucking complain afterwards that the bets should have been voided when you took your shot. 

50:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So this logo was WAP Sports. 

50:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Of course it is. 

50:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
WHOP shot. This is. This logo was WAP sports W-H-O-P. 

50:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They're the number one way for sport creators to make a living online is what it says $25 a month for the discord To me your edge shooting and then you lose and you expect to be void is just such an insane joke. The only argument they have, the only one, is that there was potential that FanDuel was free-rolling and if they scored a touchdown they would have voided the bets after. But I also just don't think that was going to happen, because enough people saw it. Fanduel wouldn't take the marketing hit. The bet just lost. Just shut the fuck up. You got a good bet, you lost. Shut up, shut the fuck up. You got a good bet, you lost. 

50:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Shut up. I'm naive enough to think that they that it was an innocent mistake and they weren't trying to free roll a bet with all of those players, Absolutely. 

51:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's harder to get away with that nowadays, especially when you're fan dual, because the amount of visibility that they would have drawn had they voided that after the game. So this is what I wanted to bring up. 

51:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So in the original tweet it says they could have easily voided them. No, they could not have easily voided them, because then Real Estate. 

51:21 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
True, would have tweeted oh my. 

51:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
God, they're scamming us. They voided the bet. They voided the bet after we already bet you have to let it ride A hundred percent. 

51:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I will say this this, I would have lost like I lost like five shirts if you had known about this yeah, yeah yeah people take a great shot, but this is the right point, dr ev dr ev says people saying these should be voided are actually insane. 

51:48 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Totally agree. I take this bet a hundred times out of a hundred and live with the results. Massive ev does not mean a guaranteed win, but when books give you these opportunities, you always take them. Let's laugh about this chalk and keep killing it. Now I will say there's a little bit more nuance to that. 

52:02
There actually might be a reason to not take this shot at FanDuel if you think the account is valuable because I can pretty much guarantee you do this with any regulated book and they see the people who are betting heavily into this market. They're going to go and limit them because that's just what you're going to get. So you have to balance whether or not the shot is worth losing the account. For most people it probably isn't. It probably is. 

52:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
The shot is worth it, absolutely yeah, the type of people that are applying to this are who can definitely take a shot and not have any repercussions. 

52:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Oh, there's people replying that we're like well, no touchdown was scored. They have to avoid the they have to avoid every single bet. 

52:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'm sure no touchdown was they have to avoid every single bet. 

52:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But Mr Limited says, while we're at it, let's get them to avoid all home double bets. And nobody has a double double. Why stop here? It's you know, this is the boomer in me as well. I'm not you know. It's just I've been betting for a long time and this stuff frustrates me to no end because there's no reasonable winning scenario for the sports book in this type of situation. It's like okay void the bets beforehand. 

53:08
Everyone complains that the bets were voided. Let the bets ride, you's like okay, void the bets beforehand. Everyone complains that the bets were voided. Let the bets ride, you lose. People complain that the bets should have been void. Like what? 

53:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
the fuck beforehand is actually like the only no, but they still would have gotten killed. 

53:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I actually think they would. I actually think it's very respectable that they didn't void it absolutely good for them right. 

53:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
They knew going into that game that they were underwater in EV. The sportsbook calculates their EV. They knew they were fucking underwater on that. 

53:38 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
But I have no issue if that is voided. Before we noticed this was a mistake? I don't, but you know what the fucking discourse would have been. What was the guy's name? Who? 

53:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
worked for Plop or whatever. 

53:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like when your eggs shoot it Wop, w-h-o-p. Wop, or whatever. Like when you're edge shooting Wop, w-h-o-p, wop, rio. 

53:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
He would have again he would have had the exact same tweet, just like you said. Sorry, but to your the line you used or the terminology, edge shooting. Like when you're edge shooting, you know that the void is 65% in the range of outcomes. With a book like FanDuel, A hundred percent the range of outcomes with a book like FanDuel. 

54:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
A hundred percent, yeah, but you still had shoot it, as EV said, a hundred times. Yeah, I actually think that, even though there's like a lot of negative feedback to this, I actually think it's kind of a positive for the book when people see that they didn't void the. 

54:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
FTP4 ad Agreed Absolutely. 

54:27 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Nor do I think that they should. 

54:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It would have been a positive had a touchdown scored, then it would have been a good luck fan duel, but like they won money here, but they actually probably because you still. 

54:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
It's still fair to question how it would have ended exactly had a touchdown. Somebody nibbled the board that's true. 

54:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's true. Speaking of sports books that are always fair, that would be pinnacle sports book live in canada. They've been in business for the past 25 years. Find out what pro bettors have known for those 25 years. Pinnacle is where the best bettors play. I have personally played at Pinnacle for a very long time. I will continue to play at Pinnacle, probably till the end of eternity, because they have very fair limits for their bettors. They don't do bullshit where they void bets or anything of that nature. They put the posted amount for every single market up front. So you know what you can get down on that market and you can get that down till the end of time. So check them out. 

55:20
If you're in canada, head over to pinnaclecom. Slash hammer. You must be 19 plus, not available in the us. As always, please play responsibly. All right, boys, you got to choose a table. Novig's Twitter account tweeted you only get to pick one table. Where are you sitting? If you're listening to this instead of watching it, it's going to be a little bit more challenging, because I actually don't even know who some of these people on this video sorry in these images are. But I'm in this one, jeff, you're in this one at table number eight with it looks like uh, I think that's mikey overs, mikey overs, I'm pretty sure. And, um, I think that's the betting queen. 

56:01 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't know who anyone is uh I'm not gonna lie. 

56:05 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Jeff, your table sucks, man. 

56:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah you've got a rough table. That's it. I don't know, I wouldn't even know. I'd make the best of it. I guarantee you I would love to sit at a table with you. I guarantee you me and overs I couldn't tell you who that is We'd find someone in the room we mutually hate and just make fun of them. That's like I don't know. That's what would happen. But other than this, I'm like oh, I'm getting home from school and asking mom to send me to private school. 

56:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Rob, you're doing such too, man, I also hold on. 

56:37 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
On the topic of me, I flattered to be included. I genuinely don't think I belong. I do not post pics. 

56:47 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I really don't even make pics truth be told, I actually didn't even think about that. Everyone here posts picks no, I guess or not, but like what picks am I. I will say from the outside, looking in, you are an odd inclusion in this entire. That's not not a disrespect you know I don't. 

57:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I was like I'm always happy to be invited. I. 

57:11 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't consider you like a gambling Twitter personality. Does that make sense? Is that fair? 

57:18 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think I am a gambling Twitter personality, but the ecosystem is so big I don't really even give picks. The only picks I give, rob, are I make outright golf bets, yeah, like during golf season, and those are the picks that I post. 

57:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I don't give picks on Twitter either. Most of the stuff's on YouTube. Anything that's pick related would be on YouTube. But who is that? In my table there's Jeff Rosa underneath me. 

57:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know. Is that a hockey stick? No disrespect, it does look like a hockey stick. I have no idea who that is. 

57:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Can't Jacob see In the original tweet didn't they tag everyone? I wonder if they tagged everyone, so by process of elimination. Maybe Jacob could nail who that is. 

58:03 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's some tough tables here. Okay, let's start with Worst table. You guys want to start with worst table or worst seat at a table? Because I'll tell you right now, at table number seven, book it trent has the worst seat in the house. First of all, he's in the corner of the entire room. He's often is lonesome over there, but he is with rufus and steve fezik, both of whom, um candidly, think very highly of themselves and would be engaged. I I actually went to a lunch with rufus and steve fezik and mike craig in vegas. I gotta tell you I like those guys. I'll never be at that table again, never, never. Thank you, fezik, for buying the uh ruben at saginaw's at circa. I do appreciate that book it trent has not like. 

58:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He's in orbit monahanaghan got shafted with that Monaghan's with, especially with the rivalry between these two. 

58:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
See Chernoff is with GRP wins and Alex Monaghan. That could be really uncomfortable. I agree, Because Chernoff doesn't like confrontation. Yeah, he just wants to keep to himself, do his thing. Filter out the noise. 

59:11 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like let's role play this in real life. What on earth is george, like saying nothing? You're not good. Your vision record was this it should be my opportunity, not yours 100, no way yeah, yeah, of course george is in real life he is exactly. But wouldn't you just? Even if George was yelling at me for something legitimate like having a bad record, I couldn't get yelled at by George or getting confronted by George without just dying inside of laughter, and probably overtly. 

59:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I don't even think it would be inside, I don't even. 

59:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yes, confrontational, but it'd be so like I don't, even, like I don't even I like. Yes, confrontational, but it'd be so like I don't know, but I think you and churn off are very different. I guess yeah, but it's george you like, george, though I, yes, I like george for exactly imagine me like alex monaghan. 

01:00:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Imagine meeting george for the first time and you know, know what he would say you just got paid out $80 million. 

01:00:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This guy's at home in the Midwest with his mom. What the fuck are you doing here? He needs to borrow his mom's car. 

01:00:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Bet Bash last year first thing George says to me when I see him. I walk up to him like, hey, george, how's it going? He's like, hey, what's going on with that scam? You're running bet stamp. 

01:00:33
This is his first thing that he says to me I'm like, here we go again. I'm like you have to explain this to me. Okay, you document things in notebooks. He's like, yeah, all the betters on uh, on bet stamp are all winners. Everyone's just winning, winning better, that's. I'm like not true, it's. It's definitely not true. Like we have in the background, there is some truth to people who document their picks and lose, that they might leave the platform or whatever. And honestly, I don't want to say we don't care about those people, but we built a platform for betters, let's put it that way. And so I'm explaining that to him. And he's like well, people, uh, people can just lock in the best lines available. I'm like, yeah, but guess what? Now, if I want to go tail that person, I can go through their and I can notice that they're locking in lines from 38 different sports books and that the record might be inflated. And he's like you know, rob, that's a good point, that's a great point. But he was immediately abrasive. 

01:01:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I like that. He's like that in person. 

01:01:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He is the same person. That makes me like him more. He is a genuine person. 

01:01:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Who's the third girl at number five? 

01:01:36 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
taylor kelly, and uh, so so by the way, I run cow rob table is uh chel god, the creator of book. 

01:01:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's oh chel god, chel god, the who man. 

01:01:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I guess you know what he was really he would talk some puck with me, and me and chel god would talk. 

01:01:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Some puck your table's rough that's like table five is um that's lauren vegas, uh taylor mathis and Lauren Cowling. 

01:01:52 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, who's from Book it? 

01:01:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Oh, okay, yeah, that would be Jason. So the whole Book. 

01:01:58 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It crew is here. Two of those three girls hate me so I'm not saying that's a bad spot. 

01:02:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That would be a bad spot, the worst table to choose to sit at is definitely number six. Honestly, number one might suck too. I'm sorry, Rob, no one sucks I. I don't find that offensive. The best. 

01:02:13 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Two is the best table by far. Two is the best table which is captain jack spanky? 

01:02:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, jeff benson, that would be I want to talk to all those guys. 

01:02:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Uh, I would agree. I first of all, I if there. If I could pick one person in this room to sit at a table with, it would be jeff benson benson or knish, for already I don't. I don't want to sit down for lunch with knish but benson I would sit at. 

01:02:37
There's some sort of like spanky and cap and captain jack have been taking like these subtle shots at each other for three months now. It might be uncomfortable, but yeah, I don't know. This is a really tough one for me. Table six, which Jacob alluded to, is Bo Wagner Caruso. You know Alex Caruso and Krabs Betts. I will say this about Krabs because Krabs did content for us at the Hammer in the early going, actually for Betstamp as well. My interactions with Krabs as a person were always extremely positive. I don't want to shit on him in any. We talked on the phone every now and then. He's very upfront with me. I could totally sit down with crabs and have a lunch. My my interactions like I don't. 

01:03:21
I hate the way he runs his persona personally, but that table would be uh, from from the outside, looking in looks like a very low point in this entire graphic. 

01:03:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'm choosing table two probably Number three is not bad. 

01:03:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I could Three is okay. 

01:03:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think it'd be fun to watch Kanishin plus EV pitch to each other back and forth. 

01:03:43 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like literally come on. 

01:03:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
No, you think that would be fun. 

01:03:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I think I don't mind three. 

01:03:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't mind three. 

01:03:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You don't mind three. Who's the top right in three? 

01:03:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I just don't know that could change my answer. 

01:03:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
So we don't even know who the third person is. You guys are sitting at. 

01:03:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I just know Kanish is going to entertain, let me see if they have it here. 

01:04:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't know. 

01:04:03 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Kanish will be in the health center. 

01:04:09 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I have zero interest in that table. I know Kanish. I know Plus EV. No offense to either of them. I have zero interest in that table. I know Knish, I know Plus EV. No offense to either of them. I don't think either is a particularly interesting person in real life. I would golf with them anytime I'd sit down, but putting them together, that's not going to be my table. Fair Table two. Table two. 

01:04:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You got the most personality. Table two has got to be the best. 

01:04:30 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Got the most personality at table two? 

01:04:32 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, without a doubt, jeff, you look like Do you know the guy who created this thing? This is Novik. 

01:04:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I've interviewed Big Buck Hunter. Yeah, it's probably Big Buck. Yeah, or whoever runs it, yeah. 

01:04:43 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a great, by the way, completely unrelated. Well, it's really good content and uh, keep doing them for circle back. 

01:04:57 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Can I be honest, like, all I've been thinking about is, you guys have been talking for the last like however amount of minutes, and I've had this thought for a while, and this probably isn't the place, but I just I want to, like, change my avatar. I just don't know what I'm supposed to. 

01:05:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's also like very low res you could. 

01:05:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, that picture was from like day one Twitter. 

01:05:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Like I still have my Bobby pizza avatar as well, I think I'm due for a new one. 

01:05:24 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Like I've never changed my avatar. But here's my problem you change your avatar. You like almost don't exist to me. Yeah, People have no idea who you are yeah, like you are used to, yeah used to like. Some one of my best friends, like on twitter, who I do stuff with all the time on the internet, changes avatar this summer to a golf hole. It just never. It's never felt the same. I'm sorry like I don't know. It's just gotta rip off the band-aid and do it, so I should do a very professional photo. 

01:05:55 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's almost like the real estate agent or where you have the arms crossed type of thing. I think Jeff can suit that type of photo. 

01:06:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'd like to see it Throw on that pink. 

01:06:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Kirby sweater arms crossed maybe some sunglasses and maybe a spliff in your mouth as well 2025,. 

01:06:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think Comment your suggestions for Jeff's profile picture. 

01:06:19 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's a good idea. 

01:06:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Jeff. 

01:06:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That is a good idea. That's a very good idea, perhaps we will feature the best ones. 

01:06:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You know what? 

01:06:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It might get featured. It might get featured, all right, the ideal gambling setup. Saw this this week. Lots of responses, versapal guess, tweeted. Not many people know, but this is the bare minimum setup you need to win at sports betting in 2024. And it's a picture of his setup. It's two horizontal monitors, one atop the other, two vertical monitors on each side, a very colorful keyboard and mouse as well. 

01:06:51 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Um is this like um, like a known person, like a big trader? 

01:07:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
this person has less than 300 followers. 

01:07:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, so this is just um. This is embarrassing yeah it'd be more embarrassing if it was actually someone who had some like equity in the space, because there's a lot of self-owning. Yeah, here. The keyboard is deplorable, that's not even the worst of it. This guy like he's probably decent at Call of Duty. That is my takeaway from this, but I don't think he's winning at sports because of it, there's a lot of things that I You've got to paint the picture for the audio listeners here. 

01:07:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, when we're talking about these topics on Circle Back and when I see these tweets that the algorithm is recommending to me and stuff, I often have to ask myself whether or not this is real or if this is sarcasm Agreed, and a lot of times I don't know and I believe that this is a real tweet. I think it's real, I really do but I don't know for sure, because the reason I say that it could be sarcastic is that that top monitor there? 

01:08:02 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
oh, because how you set up the picture is google images of an unabated. 

01:08:07 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Odd screen. It says so is it just trolling on aated On screen how to, and then just that Google image. 

01:08:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So like no, Okay, hold on. 

01:08:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
He also left all his code up on the right side of the screen as well, which is unusual that like people can now zoom in on that and see his code. 

01:08:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm not an expert. I don't think it's super valuable, though. Programmer. 

01:08:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
So you think the Easter egg to this being like a troll is the google image and not the other way around? That's just like a pure tell. This guy's just trying to show off like he bought a new monitor and keyboard and really wanted to show the internet. 

01:08:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think that's more likely, but the the fact that that's the picture makes it at least somewhat likely. 

01:08:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's a troll but if it's not, if it's not a troll. 

01:08:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's very embarrassing. I'm still laying. I'm still laying, minus 200. That it's not a troll. 

01:08:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's very embarrassing. I'm still laying minus 200, that it's real. 

01:08:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, let's put it that way Agreed. 

01:08:54 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I'm just very confused by the whole. 

01:08:56 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Thing. 

01:08:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Are there other tabs open? 

01:08:58 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There's on the left Twitter and FanDuel. 

01:09:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
FanDuel's on the left side. 

01:09:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Twitter's on the bottom. 

01:09:02 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I mean, if we could probably zoom in on that Twitter to see who he doesn't follow on the right side, who, like, just putting this stuff up there is really unusual. I will say, though, I hate this. This is one of the criticisms I've had of Fezzik in the past before, and probably why he hates my guts Now, I would just assume, by the amount of sub tweeting I get from his accountant on the regular basis. At this point. I hate when people talk about a right or wrong way, especially the right way. You have to be doing this. This is the bare minimum setup you need. 

01:09:35
I'll tell you what the bare minimum setup you need is Is this it's a phone. That's the bare, and I can win at sports betting with this one device. One device to win at sports betting in 2024. Would it be helpful if I had a secondary device? Sure, but I'll tell you this I could take this phone and I'll go up against book at trent with fucking 18 monitors an amazing setup. I'll tell you who's gonna win more money. It's gonna be me. So I hate this stupid stuff of like. You need to do this. This is the bare minimum. I hate it. I can't I can't understate how much I hate it. 

01:10:12 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You want to know something wild, rob? I've had a lot of bad ones. Yesterday was a great NFL Sunday for me and I don't know how I managed to do that when, on Friday night, I was playing Mario Kart with my daughter. I don't know how Mario Kart in a movie. I've got to correct you, by the way, because I interviewed Matt metcalf here on circles off. 

01:10:34 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
By the way, if you did not check out that matt metcalf interview, check it out. It is probably my favorite interview I've ever done with one of my I thought it was one of your best episodes, maybe the best. 

01:10:46
I enjoyed it more than my most I also said mario kart and I got flamed for that on twitter because, uh, we're supposed to pronounce it Mario Kart. It is Mario Kart, mario Kart. So I just want to make sure that people don't come after you, jeff, because I talked with Matt Metcalf about playing Mario Kart in my youth against Friends for Money, which I'm sure maybe you did as well. 

01:11:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, of course, of course, yeah. 

01:11:12 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But sorry, I had to prevent you from going down that path of Mario Kart where the internet gets really upset at you. 

01:11:20 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Okay, but more importantly, you can't win if you're spending Friday night watching a movie. That too, that came up. 

01:11:28 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You cannot win. I missed the Max Crosby news because I was watching Home Alone 2. 

01:11:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's not an exaggeration. Uh. So there's something else I wanted to bring up from this, this tweet here, because nobody has mentioned, even pre-show, nobody mentioned like the disaster that this room is so like. Look at the background here the desk. Desk is not against the wall, there's like a glare, it's in like a weird middle of the room spot. That's like really close to a shelf that you probably don't really have a lot of access to, and the shelf itself is also like a few books. It's true. 

01:12:05 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Shouldn't this be like facing like four TV monitors with like? 

01:12:08 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
the games. Yeah, why is there not a TV set up on the other side of that? It's a bookshelf that doesn't make any sense Usually your desk against the wall. 

01:12:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So maybe he is trolling I know the producer desk here is not against the wall but it's so I can see the monitors you have a different goal as a producer versus this room. 

01:12:23 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, this is an awkward setup Also, I gotta tell you, the old drawer is so lame. 

01:12:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's so 1999. I used to have one because it would save desk space, because I had a lot of stuff on my desk for, like microphones and all this other stuff, but you're sitting so far away from your desk afterwards when you pull out that drawer. 

01:12:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I don't know yeah. 

01:12:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Because the keyboard's still in your lap and you get the vision in front of you. I don't anymore. I prefer not to have it. 

01:12:48 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That keyboard tilts me as well. 

01:12:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But, I had a small desk. I needed an extra space on the desk. What does your setup look like, Kirk? 

01:12:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I have two like 35-inch monitors, maybe 34. Yeah, and then my laptop. So normally I go five screens and those are one above the other. No, no, no, side side, side. Okay, so you're all across. 

01:13:10 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
No, I actually really do like the top down monitor. 

01:13:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, this is a great setup. I'll tell you right now, I have one. I find them mostly useless. 

01:13:16 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
You don't like it. I don't have one, it just looks cool. It is useless, it looks cool. 

01:13:22 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
The only thing I ever have on the vertical monitor is crypto coin market cap, crypto prices in real time is all. I have. 

01:13:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It is useless for everything else I agree Well it looks good. I've done it before, and then I was like, oh, this just doesn't work at all, but it looks set. 

01:13:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
For betting it's dumb For betting it's really dumb. But like I do content creation and I do produce, yeah for editing this would be a really good setup for me. 

01:13:44 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I would love that For an edit bay. As an edit bay, this would be great, awesome setup. 

01:13:48 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
but like there are times where I'm working on one laptop or my phone and it's totally not see like I'm so fascinated to see the whole room zoomed out right now. 

01:13:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I know my personal favorite my personal favorite setup was actually johnny's, if you remember that, jacob back at betstown, that was really good where he had like a one big screen in the middle and then four um screens on the on the side around it, basically all horizontal. The only problem with that setup is that his main monitor was so big it's hard you can't really put anything behind. So he had his TVs to the sides of him, which are too much for me. My setup at home I got a 35-inch curved monitor vertical on the left and another monitor on the right, but I would like to have more on top with like an arm stand behind. 

01:14:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah. 

01:14:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But I need the TV directly in front of me. 

01:14:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You need to be able to see and watch the TV. 

01:14:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Yeah, because I hate turning to the side. But I would much rather turn to the side for a secondary monitor than I would to watch TV. 

01:14:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You, could hook up your cable blocks whatever you use to that monitor though, so you could use that. 

01:14:56 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I need a big-screen TV. 

01:14:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I can't get away without a big screen. 

01:15:00 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I can't do the Rex Byers 9 TV setup there. It's not my thing. 

01:15:04 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
As we've spoken about this longer, my thought that it could be a troll is increased. I think, that's fair, just putting that out there. I'm looking at the account here. 

01:15:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I can't quite tell if this is fake or not. 

01:15:20 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Let's keep to that thought of could it be a troll or not, with our next one. That's how you do a segue, right there. Good segue Learn that stuff like 10 years ago. Nba G League tweets out a career high night for brawny james, the lakers draft. He made his road debut scoring a game high 30 points on 57 percent shooting. Uh, someone quote, tweeted this um, I think he's appeared in this show before absolutely yes he says I kindly request that fan duel sports book pays this out. 

01:15:49
It is an accompanying image of a bet slip on brawny james to score 30 plus points in any 2024-25 regular season game. He plays 15 on it to win 1515 dollars and I honestly don't know he did respond to like a lot of people are going to have the same commentary that I have, that I had the same commentary in the comments, which are like you got to be an actual idiot to think that an NBA G league game constitutes being an NBA game, but he was responding to people like this. I think this is a very real tweet. 

01:16:27 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Do we have any other responses? Like cause? 

01:16:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'm just yeah, yeah, so um, somebody. Somebody responses like because I'm just yeah, yeah, so um, somebody. Somebody replied is that an nba game? And then the guy replied nba g league, nba g league, which, by the way, I don't, I don't believe the g league actually calls their yeah, it's just the g league. 

01:16:42 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
But even if it did call it the nba, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. 

01:16:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
2024 2025 regular season game, which it's clearly indicated in his fucking screenshot. 

01:16:53 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
What the hell is wrong with people nowadays? What has this industry become? 

01:16:59 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I have to believe this is a troll, so somebody said does the G count? 

01:17:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And he said it should, and he has not replied to anything else. 

01:17:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
This is perfect. This is Like, if you are trolling, this is like ideal engagement, even for a $15 bet that you know, like one night, bronnie's gonna put this up in the G and I'm gonna get a thousand likes. I was gonna say something very similar. 

01:17:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If this is trolling and engagement farming, good for you, amazing job. If you're serious, you need to go. You need help for help seek, seek help. Like there's no middle ground. There is not a middle ground, no there literally isn't out of curiosity. 

01:17:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Would you have considered this a good bet prior to the season? Because there were people were arguing about this as well and what like? Some of the comments were like well, the tell that you're a losing sports. Better is that you actually even place this horrible bet in the first place. I don't know enough about brawny james yeah. 

01:17:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So I actually got messaged prior to the season from someone who I consider pretty smart, these props being like oh, these are all really good and I thought they were absolutely terrible. I thought the by far the most likely scenario was brawny was going to be in the g league for most of the year. Maybe he could hit this if the lakers are so bad that they're tanking down the stretch. But probably not. And even if that happened, he probably doesn't hit a 30 point game. They are incentivized to play them if, hypothetically, there's a lot of injuries or it's a massive blowout. But 30 points a lot no, I think it's a horrible bet. Jacob, you're a basketball guy. 

01:18:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You do the board nba uh with pips every single weekday here. Part of the Hammer Betting Network 100-1 on Bronny James to score 30-plus. 

01:18:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, I priced it originally. So if he was to play in every game in an NBA season, I'd say this is probably pretty good, but he's obviously not going to play in every game. 

01:18:49 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Well, we could go back and look at the Victor Wimbanyama example of last week on how to price these things Exactly how often? Does the worst player in the? Nba get 30 points in a regular season. 

01:19:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That would actually not be a bad way to price that. 

01:19:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
With respect to these professional players, who are all extremely talented by NBA standards. A lot of scrubs get a 30-point game. 

01:19:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But Bronny's below that scrub level Fair enough. 

01:19:17 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It is so stupid to tweet this. Well stupid or smart? Well, it depends on the motive. Exactly it's all about we need to get in this head. Imagine betting NFL passing yards leader and at the end of the year you include the preseason numbers and be like, ah, they should pay this out. 

01:19:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
this is they like your guy goes to the xfl and you want those included. It's that level of stupid. It's just stupid. 

01:19:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It says in the tweet nba regular season. I just can't believe that this screenshot exists. Well, that's a tough, a tough one. 

01:19:51 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
We're going to end on. I think maybe a very divisive one here. I don't know for sure, but I think it might be Dynasty dorks. At Dynasty dorks on Twitter, I should say X honestly. I'm going to get in the habit of saying X. More People are calling me out. It's not Twitter anymore. 

01:20:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's always. 

01:20:06 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Twitter to me Always. 

01:20:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Twitter. 

01:20:07 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Well, we call it gambling Twitter. Still Sky Dome, it's always Twitter, twitter. That's how it works. I'm not giving in to these people Never. Thanks, jeff. 

01:20:14 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Fuck you whoever? 

01:20:15 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
recommended that when you say you've like anyone, you're in Miami, you're still going to Joe Robbie Stadium. It's like I'm off the hard rock, unless you're younger. It's just about what it was. I'm going down to your formative years or when it was built. That's what it is just called. I do not give a shit pay. Pay as much money as you want to put your logo on it doesn't mean I have to call it by that. 

01:20:40 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Thank you, I really appreciate your support on this one. Jeff. Uh, this, this tweet was two players benched their lineups to force a tie so they could make the playoffs. This is in a fantasy pool. They block the playoffs for another team Thoughts, and it comes with an accompanying screenshot of two people leaving their lineups empty to score zero points. End in a tie. Make the fantasy playoffs. I see. 

01:21:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Totally unacceptable. 

01:21:08 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Even if the guy who they're keeping out of the playoffs is a healthcare CEO this is still totally unacceptable. Yes, like on every level, this is so unacceptable. I play less fantasy than ever, but I don't play with anyone. I don't know, because if you do this to me, I got to know where you live. So on the coldest night of the year, I go to your house, I piss on your car door. It is locked, it is frozen solid with my piss. That is how I would react to this. Yeah, it is so. 

01:21:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, you're all out of the league. This is just also total collusion. You cannot have collusion in a league. It doesn't matter if it's not specifically in the rules. This is an obvious no, no, both teams should not be allowed in the playoffs okay, so here's where I'm gonna go with this. 

01:21:57 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
It's very similar how I feel about the sportsbook industry. Um, is this a very shitty thing to do by both of the managers? Absolute scumbag. Move 100 is it genius? 

01:22:09 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
yes, no, because it's against the rules, it's not yes, it is. It's against the rules yes, it is okay at the end of the day I have, you guys, ever been the commissioner? 

01:22:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I am the commissioner, so I I have this. 

01:22:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
This kind of drove me out of fantasy football. I'm not gonna lie, I was a commissioner of a pool for a long time and there's always, always, always, people looking to circumvent the rules. To me, this is not on the managers, okay, this is on the commissioner to step in and say, no, this cannot happen in this pool. As the manager, you should be looking for loopholes. In my opinion, that's where I stand so to me. 

01:22:50 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I know you don't like it like I agree, I agree with that, I agree the commissioner has an overriding responsibility, but you are taking away the culpability of these people. Bottom line is in looking at this picture even further, what are we even arguing about some free roll pool? How do I know that they play on ESPN? No one fucking plays on ESPN. You're in some free league with a bunch of strangers. Fuck off, fair. But I doubt they're strangers because actually, if they colluded, a lot of gambling. 

01:23:23 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Twitter plays on ESPN. I did some high roller pools where I tried to convince people to play on Yahoo and they refused they complete like. 

01:23:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I honestly think they all suck. I have one on ESPN, one one Yahoo, one Sleeper. I think they're all terrible. I think Yahoo's. 

01:23:35 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yahoo is the gold standard. 

01:23:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't even agree. I think they're all terrible. 

01:23:41 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yahoo could be improved, but it's like it is definitive gap between the second best. 

01:23:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I'm a big fan of. There's certain features I really like on yahoo, like when they give me a d plus for my draft and my friends are like oh, I got a better rating than you on the. I'm like let's see where it ends up at the end of the season when I always win and you always lose. Let's see if the yahoo rankings were right this sponsored content too, on yahoo it's always good, it's so good. 

01:24:12
I think, as a commissioner of a league, you have a responsibility to keep the fucking league in order, and I don't blame managers for doing shit like this. At some point, commissioner should have stepped in, made a ruling and said no, no, no. This is, this can't happen. We're going to take the total amounts that your starting lineups would have scored. We're scoring those. 

01:24:29 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's what's happening there is like no way, this is a home league. There would be straight up like war. 

01:24:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think it is a home league, though, because you have to be close with someone to be able to close like that. 

01:24:39 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Not only that, you actually have to both really know someone enough to hate the person you're trying to and track each other. 

01:24:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Someone's not going to sneak in on Monday night All valid points. 

01:24:49 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I guess, yeah, all valid points. I guess, yeah, no, like I said, there's no. Uh, I don't even, I don't even know. I want to know what the other guy did to these bros, like what he did, whose wife did he sleep with? 

01:25:04 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
it's not about the other guy. It's about just getting into the playoffs and not risking that final week. That's it's not. It's never about the other guy. 

01:25:13 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Forfeit. It's always about what benefits me. They'd both be out and the two teams that didn't make the playoffs would be in. 

01:25:21 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Honestly. 

01:25:22 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
That's how this would be solved. 

01:25:24 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I haven't thought about it a lot, but if I was the commissioner of this pool and this happened under my watch, you'd resign. I would probably boot them out of next year's pool. Agree, I'd be like you're taking a. This is so like Relegation. Listen, I love the inventiveness I do. Again. I was like the first guy and other people around the world were doing this, but in my own pools I was the guy waking up at 3 am when the waiver wires were processed and guys would go into free agency and I was doing that for years and then people caught on and like you got to do what you got to do. Sometimes this is, I do credit the fact that people went through the standings. They're like, hey, wait a minute, here we could tie. We're both in, let's make it happen. But it is against, against like the spirit, and I I do understand that. Agree, sometimes you gotta, you gotta, you gotta just not do stuff that is total scumbag they know they're being fucking scumbags. 

01:26:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, yeah, they know. 

01:26:29 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
You know, like they don't know with that said, if I had a player that was playing on monday night football in this pool? 

01:26:36 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
are you do like you sneak them in last minute? 

01:26:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
double swerve, yeah, like yeah, yeah you pick up a few guys for monday night football just how would you trust the other guy as well that they're not going? 

01:26:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
to start, somebody last probably sitting refreshing at like 8, 19 both of them have. 

01:26:50 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
There's an inherent amount of trust in doing something like. 

01:26:53 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it's like uh, it's almost like you each. I couldn't formulate the joke quick enough, but it was like yeah, like you're you, you each have like some ability to um like nuke the other person if they go against you. That was the whole joke that you know, I formulate no, I, it was ruder, it was meaner. 

01:27:16
I went there and I couldn't pivot but it essentially be like it's game theory if, like, we're doing this, rob yeah, but like until this week is over, you, I have possession of your patrick mahomes gem mint psa graded card. Ah, I like that, like Patrick Mahomes gem mint PSA graded card. 

01:27:32 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
Ah, I like that. You exchange valuables. Yeah, that's what. 

01:27:33 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
I mean. So that was sort of oh that's good. 

01:27:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I was going to use children. 

01:27:38 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
I was going to use children as the original collateral, but then it got dark. 

01:27:42 - Geoff Fienberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it gets dark with children and then I decided let's just go to trading cards. 

01:27:46 - Rob Pizzola (Co-host)
That's good that's good, all right. I that's good, all right. I'm going to end on that. 

01:27:51
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