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[00:34] Is there something shady going on about

[00:36] the way the NBA is correcting their

[00:38] stats and the affiliation to sports

[00:40] books? We're back with the awful content

[00:43] around NFL incentive week and a real

[00:46] question about whether or not sports

[00:47] books should have to reveal why someone

[00:50] is getting limited. All this and so much

[00:51] more on today's circle back here on the

[00:53] circles off of channel which is part of

[00:55] the hammer network and proudly presented

[00:57] by Kshi. If you don't know this is the

[00:59] show where we cover the latest and

[01:01] greatest news that comes from gambling

[01:03] Twitter. We do it every Friday pretty

[01:05] much here with the Friday crew. We got

[01:08] Joey Kesh back for today. He is in the

[01:10] bottom right corner of the screen in the

[01:13] bottom left as normal. Nice for him to

[01:15] actually join us on a show at the Hammer

[01:17] this week and not no show. It's Mike aka

[01:19] Mr. for peanut better. And in the top

[01:21] right corner of the screen, it is Isaac

[01:23] at roundroin42 as our guest for this

[01:26] week. Isaac, back on the show. How you

[01:27] feeling?

[01:28] >> Great, great to be here. Just uh yeah,

[01:31] looking at Mike's bio, thinking how much

[01:32] of my bankroll I should bet on Anthony

[01:34] Joshua. I have no idea.

[01:36] >> And over to Mike. What What happened on

[01:38] the Hammer Daily? We were expecting a

[01:39] 12:05 Eastern time hit and a no show and

[01:42] no message. What happened? Uh uh any

[01:46] show that uh Jason is on as a host I

[01:49] figured was pretty much optional and

[01:51] that anybody can take that off at any

[01:53] time. So I think that's just kind of a

[01:55] wires got crossed there.

[01:56] >> You know I said to Jason he's not the

[01:58] type to just no show without messaging.

[02:00] But maybe that's how you treat me. Maybe

[02:01] there's respect for me but that respect

[02:02] doesn't go over to Jason and Kesh

[02:04] corporate party last week. Are you

[02:06] feeling nice and refreshed for today's

[02:07] circle back?

[02:08] >> Yeah, you know what? uh corporate Joey

[02:11] K. Uh had some uh you know things to

[02:13] attend to last week. Manager retired. So

[02:16] saw him out and um you now back back

[02:19] where I belong with the uh with people

[02:21] who don't have an actual job.

[02:23] >> All right. Well, you could say I may I

[02:26] don't know about myself. I am after all

[02:27] a creator and producer for the hammer

[02:29] host here on circle back.

[02:33] >> Right.

[02:34] And for the first topic today, uh, we

[02:36] have a conversation that was sprouted

[02:38] from this original post from Z the Go

[02:41] talk about how DraftKings took money out

[02:43] of out of his account 48 hours after a

[02:46] bet hit. And he says that shouldn't be

[02:48] allowed. It was a bet that involved

[02:50] Derek Queen's six plus assists. It was

[02:52] stack corrected apparently 48 hours

[02:54] later to five assists and therefore the

[02:57] parlay that won was now a loss and took

[03:01] it up with DraftKings support where they

[03:03] said that they go by the NBA official

[03:07] stats not by box scores like ESPN and

[03:11] when asked if there's any limitations on

[03:13] the amount of time after a bet is graded

[03:15] for stat corrections they said there is

[03:17] not. We update our house rules to

[03:19] include language about resettling bets

[03:21] when official stats are later corrected

[03:22] or vacated by the events governing body.

[03:25] This ensures outcomes always reflect the

[03:27] final verified results. Obviously, Zay

[03:30] the Goat was not happy a winning butt

[03:32] had now been turned into a losing bet,

[03:34] but it sparked a very large argument

[03:35] between Kenny, killy with two I's, one L

[03:39] on Twitter and big fan of the show the

[03:42] shipper at ship thejustice. So

[03:44] essentially, Kil Kenny kind of raised

[03:46] the issues that could arise when it

[03:48] comes to stat corrections and at least

[03:50] the amount of time it takes for stack

[03:52] corrections to take place and maybe

[03:53] hinted at some of the shitty practices

[03:56] that could exist with sports book with

[03:58] these sort of rules in place when they

[03:59] can sort of pick and choose days later

[04:01] to change a winning bet to a losing bet.

[04:04] The shipper did not see this side of the

[04:07] story. I don't need to exactly use the

[04:08] same language that he used, but he

[04:10] thought that it was not a problem at

[04:12] all. Not even in the slightest. No one

[04:14] is free rolling anybody and that none of

[04:17] it is predatory and the lines are as

[04:18] correct as the information can be by the

[04:21] at the time they are available. Books do

[04:23] everything they can to ensure good

[04:25] customers have good experiences. They

[04:27] hate that customers have negative

[04:28] experience like this. There is no

[04:30] solution though. So I wanted to go first

[04:32] of all to our responsible gaming

[04:34] advocate Isaac in the top right here. Do

[04:37] you feel like there is an issue at at

[04:39] play here with correcting a win to a

[04:41] loss and also maybe touch on how long it

[04:44] took for that correction to take place?

[04:46] >> Yeah, so definitely that the timing is

[04:48] is pretty unfortunate there. You know,

[04:50] we talked about this with other issues

[04:51] like I think I don't know if DK has it

[04:53] in their terms and conditions, but but

[04:55] 48 hours later is is really long. And

[04:57] yeah, I would be pissed too if you know,

[04:59] you make a bet, it's graded as a win,

[05:00] and then 48 hours later they tell you.

[05:02] Shipper is right in the sense that there

[05:04] is no easy answer here. The real

[05:07] question is like what happens if this

[05:09] goes the other way. As someone who has,

[05:11] you know, dabbled in some stat

[05:14] corrections or incorrect stats that are

[05:16] currently listed on some books, I've

[05:18] I've never seen a loser graded to a

[05:21] winner retroactively. Maybe it happens.

[05:23] It just hasn't happened to me. Um but

[05:25] but yeah, it's very it's very

[05:26] unfortunate, especially when you get

[05:27] these inconsistencies. And I can just

[05:30] say this is this is a good way to get

[05:31] your account cut if anybody does this.

[05:33] But obviously uh you know it can be an

[05:36] incredibly profitable spot if someone's

[05:37] got five assists and they're listed at

[05:40] having four assists and you can bet them

[05:41] to get six plus assists. Not saying

[05:43] that's exactly what happens here, but

[05:45] you know there are people and groups

[05:48] that just look for this, right? That are

[05:50] scanning at all times trying to find it.

[05:52] And when they do, they'll just smash

[05:54] these alt lines, smash any errors. And

[05:56] so if you're doing that, I think, you

[05:58] know, you don't really uh have any leg

[06:00] to stand on and you should kind of know

[06:01] what's coming. But if it's just a normal

[06:03] guy placing a bet, I can see why it

[06:04] would be very frustrating.

[06:06] >> When you talk about finding those sort

[06:08] of errors in stats, I feel like that's

[06:10] something that's up Mike's alley. Is

[06:11] that true? What do you think?

[06:13] >> No, I I'm kind of ashamed to admit I've

[06:16] never thought about that. That's I was

[06:18] literally uh making a note while he was

[06:20] talking to start looking for something

[06:22] like this. So

[06:22] >> So it is up your alley. Okay.

[06:24] >> Yeah, it's right up my alley. Uh, again,

[06:27] I've said this with the no big situation

[06:29] happened. The idea that these companies

[06:30] are free rolling you is insane. Do you

[06:33] think DraftKings wants this to happen to

[06:35] win these small amounts of bets? You're

[06:37] probably going to dump it back to them

[06:39] anyways. You We can talk about the shady

[06:42] things books do. They're certainly not,

[06:44] you know, they're not innocent in

[06:46] everything, but what I can say is I

[06:48] guarantee you that DraftKings is not

[06:50] waiting to make a stat correction 48

[06:52] hours later because they lost an SGP or

[06:55] lost some bet to another guy. But the

[06:58] only thing I will give him is I do think

[07:00] that we should end all corrections based

[07:02] on stat corrections uh to bets because I

[07:05] am so sick of seeing on my Twitter

[07:07] timeline somebody posting a video and

[07:09] saying NBA do the right thing. please

[07:12] give this guy another assist to make my

[07:14] SGP hit. So, if it gets rid of that,

[07:16] then I'm with a guy that we should no

[07:18] longer allow corrections.

[07:20] >> I I do feel some support for that to not

[07:22] have to see that happened anymore. Um I

[07:24] think Hitman used to do that a lot with

[07:26] NFL and there's stat correction. I I

[07:28] used to find errors and post a video.

[07:30] Hey NFL, you got this stat wrong. You

[07:32] credited this as a 37 yard game when it

[07:34] should have been a 38 yard game. Uh I

[07:36] could do with less of that. Kesh, what

[07:38] do you think on this topic?

[07:39] >> Yeah, you know what? I from a a customer

[07:42] perspective, I can see like especially

[07:45] if you hit something and then a couple

[07:47] days later they're taking it out. I see

[07:49] the B of like getting annoyed with it,

[07:51] upset about it. Do I think it's this

[07:53] massive scandal under thing like no from

[07:57] the from DK's I would be interested to

[08:00] see like I guess what's the swing here

[08:04] in terms of like pro P&L like how much

[08:08] was this cuz at that point I'm wondering

[08:11] like is it worth it? Is it 48 hours

[08:14] later? Now, if you're talking about

[08:15] during the game, right after the game,

[08:18] two days later, if we're not talking

[08:20] about like a massive swing where if you

[08:23] know everybody had they were where some

[08:25] huge SGP error or something like that,

[08:28] if it was just something that then I

[08:30] don't know if you're getting the bang

[08:33] for the buck in terms of the correction

[08:35] being worth the customer fury on this

[08:38] instance. So that's the only thing I

[08:41] would push back on in terms of like

[08:44] should this be done or should it not?

[08:45] Obviously there's no we're in the era of

[08:48] every that the script everything's fix.

[08:50] So that that is more just a general

[08:53] annoyance. Um but overall I don't think

[08:56] anything out of bounds happened here.

[08:58] It's just if it's it was Kenishi PPH and

[09:01] we're not talking about a huge amount of

[09:03] money uh then I probably would have just

[09:05] let this go uh if I'm DraftKings. But

[09:08] obviously they made the decision and

[09:09] then there you go.

[09:11] >> If I and I pay a lot of money for these

[09:14] sponsorships with the leagues, I'm going

[09:16] to tell the NBA, "Hey, can we get a move

[09:18] on on this stat correction thing? How is

[09:19] it taking the NBA, this multi-billion

[09:22] dollar organization, 48 hours to make a

[09:24] correction?" I mean, that's on them. So,

[09:26] I don't know why they're doing that, but

[09:28] >> that's that would be the number one

[09:30] story if I was DraftKings.

[09:32] >> Yeah, I agree with Mike there. when you

[09:34] know I don't think there's necessarily

[09:35] anything nefarious going on here but

[09:37] when you have those partnerships and you

[09:39] have like these discrepancies I think

[09:40] someone was talking about in the

[09:42] comments there about you know between

[09:44] the NBA and ESPN and you have people

[09:46] betting on these things there really

[09:47] needs to be some consistency the other

[09:49] thing to keep in mind is like especially

[09:50] with DK more than any of the others they

[09:52] don't even really let you bet on under

[09:54] props right so it' be interesting to see

[09:56] like the split between when the stat

[09:58] corrections go over versus under like

[10:00] for in-game SGPs I don't even think even

[10:02] like the best accounts can't get more

[10:04] than like a few hundred dollars in the

[10:05] unders. So like how often I know someone

[10:07] asked DK support they were like oh how

[10:09] often do you grade the other way and

[10:11] they're like oh we're not privy to that

[10:12] information like could be pretty easy to

[10:14] see. It'd be interesting to see like how

[10:15] often the stat corrections go up adjust

[10:17] upward versus adjust onward and and how

[10:19] that impacts draftings as P&L.

[10:21] >> So to that point the NBA goes in and

[10:24] corrects the home announcer afterwards

[10:26] with stat correction. So the first

[10:27] person who's doing it is the team

[10:30] employee who is going to be more likely

[10:31] to give the player the assist. So my

[10:34] guess is just based on that information

[10:35] be much more likely to be taken away

[10:37] than it would be to be added on.

[10:39] >> Yeah. I'll just say one thing for for

[10:41] the for the listeners who are trying to

[10:42] get an edge. Uh you know if you if you

[10:45] keep a very close eye on all the

[10:46] different books they will sometimes have

[10:49] different stat numbers. And I am always

[10:51] shocked that like, you know, if someone

[10:53] is at three assists instead of two

[10:55] assists, the odds on their like five

[10:56] plus assist line are just insane sort of

[10:59] how much that one assist matters. So if

[11:01] you're really keen on doing this and you

[11:02] don't care about burning some accounts,

[11:04] you know, keep them up and you have a

[11:06] live stream of the game that's really

[11:07] good, you can sometimes catch them off.

[11:09] >> In general on that, it's just finding

[11:11] something that like for live betting,

[11:12] it's very algorithm based on a sports

[11:14] book. Find something the algorithm is

[11:15] not going to account for. It's not going

[11:16] to account for an error on their stack

[11:18] keeping and things like that. But on

[11:20] this conversation, I do see an issue

[11:22] with DraftKings having like no time

[11:25] limit. They they said it specifically in

[11:27] the support conversation here. Uh Z the

[11:30] Goat asked, "Is there no limitations on

[11:32] of time after bet is graded for stat

[11:34] corrections?" They say there is not. I

[11:36] do see an issue with the length of time

[11:37] there. For me, as far as like the

[11:39] frustration, yeah, I'd be annoyed, but

[11:40] at the end of the day, it's in the House

[11:42] rules. I got to I got to like stick to

[11:43] my guns there. It's in the House rules.

[11:45] They're allowed to correct it. And the

[11:46] conversation with support kind of ends

[11:48] there. It's in the House rules, but I

[11:50] think you can open up a conversation in

[11:52] a place like this on should there be a

[11:54] time limit. Isaac, what do you think?

[11:57] >> Yeah, I think that it shouldn't be a

[11:58] house rule, right? Like it should be I

[11:59] would say probably 24 hours, maybe 48

[12:02] hours. It just it just seems ridiculous.

[12:04] I'll say one more thing. I've actually

[12:05] had this exact same thing happen on

[12:07] DraftKings before and I knew that they

[12:10] had messed up. I wasn't even trying to

[12:11] prey on it, but I had placed some bets,

[12:13] they messed up. I immediately withdrew

[12:15] the money. And in a similar situation, I

[12:17] got a very large negative balance and uh

[12:19] just never never put any more money into

[12:21] that account. Uh so you just gota gotta

[12:23] got to think about some of the long-term

[12:25] consequences there. But if you know that

[12:27] you got one over on them and you kind of

[12:29] don't and you really want that money,

[12:31] get it out ASAP. You can normally get it

[12:32] out in less than that 48 hours.

[12:34] >> They they can't take your money if

[12:35] there's no money in the account. That's

[12:37] what I've told people in the past. So

[12:39] agreed there. Do you guys agree on the

[12:40] 24 hours? You think that's probably the

[12:42] right right spot?

[12:45] >> Yeah, it seems reasonable. I I think

[12:47] that again I would be if I was

[12:49] DraftKings, I would urge the NBA to make

[12:51] their corrections within 24 hours.

[12:53] That's a reasonable time limit for them

[12:55] to make

[12:55] >> knowing the betting the amount of money

[12:57] bet into this. Yeah, that that also

[12:59] makes sense. A lot of sense being made

[13:01] here on the show. That is the first

[13:03] topic in the books. If you're enjoying

[13:05] so far, make sure you do hit the like

[13:06] button. If you don't think we're making

[13:07] sense at all, maybe you disagree with

[13:09] something, you can consider commenting

[13:10] something down below whether you agree

[13:11] or disagree with anything you see or

[13:13] hear during the show at all. And if

[13:15] you're on YouTube, consider subscribing

[13:16] to the channel. Keep driving us up.

[13:18] Let's finish 2025 on a very strong note.

[13:22] But we're going to shift gears. We're

[13:23] going to go into some NFL discourse here

[13:25] because there was something brought up.

[13:28] It was a tweet by Ian Rabport at

[13:30] Rabbshet who posted this on Twitter. He

[13:32] said it's been a challenging year in Las

[13:34] Vegas, but the Raiders have some success

[13:35] stories such as linebacker Devin White

[13:38] is a big one. He has emerged a potential

[13:39] comeback player of the year candidate.

[13:42] With one sack, White could join Deario

[13:44] Davis as one of the two players in 2012

[13:46] to get 700 plus tackles and 25 sacks.

[13:48] So, these sorts of posts come up a lot

[13:51] where it feels like it's more so fueled

[13:53] by maybe payment behind the scenes. This

[13:57] was directly pointed out by Jared Smith

[13:59] Betts who said, "Classy example of how

[14:00] the how the NFL newsmaking sausage is

[14:03] made. Big accounts are fed scoops from

[14:05] agents. In exchange, they get requests

[14:06] to post propaganda like this, lobbying

[14:08] for a player to win comeback player of

[14:09] the year, who isn't even listed on the

[14:11] odds board." Devin is also in a contract

[14:14] year, which kind of adds to the story. I

[14:16] pulled up Koshi's comeback player of the

[14:17] year winner market, which we actually

[14:19] talked about on the Monday show as well,

[14:21] but made sense for this one here. They

[14:23] have a lot of players listed and if you

[14:25] squint really close and zoom in, you

[14:28] still won't see his name because he's

[14:29] not at all listed here. I wasn't able to

[14:32] find him listed anywhere. So, it does

[14:35] feel like this was fed by an agent. Rap

[14:39] sheets getting a little bit of money

[14:40] behind the scenes. We see this in I

[14:43] think a lot of sports, Mike, but do you

[14:44] feel like this is a problem in in the

[14:46] way we're getting stories in sports now?

[14:49] So I I don't think that Raport is

[14:51] receiving money um for these for this

[14:53] favorable coverage. What I think he is

[14:55] getting is he's getting the best scoop.

[14:57] So he knows all the information because

[14:59] he's willing to give it out in the way

[15:00] that the agents want. You see this a lot

[15:03] uh in the NBA as well with WO being

[15:05] represented by CIA. It's amazing how

[15:08] much he took their side over someone

[15:09] else is just I'm sure as an arbiter of

[15:12] news there. So I you also see this with

[15:14] the Lane Keifin situation and there

[15:16] seemingly be a public effort by the CIA

[15:19] folks at ESPN to kind of take blame away

[15:21] from him. So this is one of those things

[15:24] as soon as you see it with uh agents and

[15:26] coverage it's something you can't unsee.

[15:28] Uh it is what it is. I don't know what

[15:31] the solution is. As long as everybody is

[15:33] looking for the fastest scoop and to be

[15:36] able to tweet information out first,

[15:37] it's going to go to the people who are

[15:38] most willing to carry water. So yeah, I

[15:41] don't know what the solution is. This is

[15:43] definitely happening all the time going

[15:45] back to uh Adam Sheper's uh Mr. Editor

[15:48] calling one of the agents of his story.

[15:51] So I think that this is going to happen.

[15:53] Uh as long as Twitter's out there as a

[15:56] resource and people want to tweet first,

[15:58] this is how the news is going to be

[15:59] broke.

[16:00] >> Feels it feels like an ad that's not

[16:03] actually an ad. That that's how I kind

[16:05] of treat it. Kish, uh you kind of nodded

[16:07] along there. Maybe not payment behind

[16:08] the scenes, but this is how they get the

[16:10] information that they're fed.

[16:12] >> Yeah. I don't think rap is actually

[16:14] they're not actually feeling them cash.

[16:15] It's just uh you know I scratch if you

[16:18] want the info you know that we're

[16:20] feeding you then uh you got to do slow

[16:22] something something like sauce up uh

[16:24] Devin who's having and all metrics a

[16:28] terrible year and now he's you know

[16:30] maybe comeback player of the year but oh

[16:32] no probably not. So, uh, I will say in

[16:36] recent years, it's probably gotten a

[16:38] little bit more shillish, uh, in in, you

[16:42] know, for from the big news guys where

[16:44] you used to, I mean, five plus years

[16:46] ago, maybe not even that. Uh, you used

[16:48] to never like see an agency tagged in

[16:51] any of these and then it started

[16:53] becoming more and more common place. But

[16:56] if you want I mean if you're an insider

[16:58] and you want the you gotta you got to

[17:03] sell the soul and uh so you know you got

[17:05] to be oh Devin White what a great year

[17:08] even if you know PFF's got him rated you

[17:10] know the the 282nd best linebacker in

[17:13] the NFL. Um it's part of the business to

[17:15] get the the info.

[17:17] >> I see this problem Mike mentioned NBA.

[17:19] see this problem very often in soccer

[17:21] with there's a the biggest the biggest

[17:23] reporter there is for Romano and and you

[17:26] can seriously tell so often when this is

[17:28] just getting pumped by the agent agents

[17:30] are being tagged directly as Kenish said

[17:32] it's not like genuine reporting it's

[17:34] like it's like writing an article for a

[17:36] company making it seem like a newsworthy

[17:39] article when in actuality it's an ad. Um

[17:41] Isaac, do you see any solution to some

[17:43] of this or this just part of the game at

[17:44] this point?

[17:45] >> Yeah, I think it's pretty silly. I just

[17:46] did a quick search on Twitter for uh

[17:49] Devin White comeback player of the year

[17:52] and I could not find a single thing

[17:55] before uh like three days ago. Literally

[17:57] no one's mentioned it. I saw it I was

[17:59] like oh his odds are what like 50 to1.

[18:00] He's like literally not even on the

[18:02] board. So yeah, pretty pretty

[18:03] ridiculous.

[18:04] >> I think there's probably got to be some

[18:05] accountability here especially when

[18:07] these things do move betting lines. Uh,

[18:09] in this case it doesn't even matter, but

[18:11] like you see some other ones where

[18:13] someone will tweet something and then

[18:14] immediately like a Shams tweet will just

[18:16] move the market massively whether it's a

[18:18] draft pick. Yeah, once again I don't

[18:20] think there's necessarily any mal intent

[18:21] here, but when you have the leagues in

[18:23] bed with the sports books, you got to be

[18:25] pretty careful about this stuff.

[18:26] >> It's interesting angle I didn't kind of

[18:28] I didn't kind of consider there because

[18:29] like if it was Sean's tweeting something

[18:31] like that, let's say in this case if he

[18:33] was listed um do you think that would

[18:36] have had market influence? Oh, surely.

[18:38] Especially when these guys like assume

[18:39] he was, you know, 80 to1 or whatever. If

[18:42] someone sees that tweet, he gets a few

[18:44] clicks. It doesn't take that much money

[18:45] to move these lines. Uh, so, so yeah, I

[18:48] think definitely something to keep in

[18:49] mind.

[18:49] >> Okay. Well, interesting. Devin White not

[18:51] listed on Cali for comeback player of

[18:53] the year, but there's a lot of other

[18:54] players listed. If you would want to

[18:55] take advantage of a market like this or

[18:57] any other market that they have

[18:58] available, you can do so by scanning the

[19:01] QR code that is on screen now or going

[19:02] to the links in the description anytime

[19:04] while you are listening or watching.

[19:06] Thank you to Koshi for being the

[19:07] presenting sponsor here on the circles

[19:09] off channel. We'll actually mention

[19:10] another KI market a bit later on in the

[19:13] show, but we'll keep it moving. It is

[19:16] that time of year everybody. You know,

[19:17] like when we get towards Christmas and

[19:19] like there's all the memes of like

[19:20] Mariah Carey, they're unfreezing her.

[19:22] She's back. Well, when we get to this

[19:24] time of year in the NFL season, that's

[19:26] when we get to unfreeze salts and people

[19:29] like that because NFL incentives, if you

[19:32] don't know this, I love the start of

[19:34] that. I don't know if you know this, but

[19:36] NFL players are fighting for key

[19:38] incentives this week. And you can take

[19:40] advantage in the betting markets and

[19:41] then post a bunch of bets. Uh we also

[19:43] have another one from Joe Hula. Most

[19:46] people haven't realized this yet. NFL

[19:49] players are fighting for millions in

[19:50] incentives. And yes, it matters in the

[19:52] betting markets. I mean, maybe it did a

[19:54] long time ago, but uh doesn't anymore.

[19:57] Blaze Bets points this out in a quote

[19:58] tweet. Says, "An important message for

[20:00] NFL bers. The sports books are well a

[20:02] aware of all information about

[20:04] incentives and have these incentives

[20:06] baked into their lines already. If you

[20:08] think you know something the books

[20:09] don't, you're greatly mistaken. At least

[20:11] in this scenario here, Hitman had a

[20:15] different sort of approach to where

[20:16] Blaze Bets wanted to give a more

[20:19] teaching approach like they know this

[20:20] already. Hitman just quote tweeted with

[20:23] idiot. Hitman not liking that one there.

[20:26] Uh Kesh, you're you're the most I'm

[20:28] putting this politely. You're the most

[20:30] veteran experienced of the gambling

[20:32] Twitter space compared to the rest of

[20:33] us. So, how long has stuff like this

[20:35] been going on? Does it make you sick at

[20:37] this point?

[20:37] >> Well, I mean, this used to be and I know

[20:39] what hitman's I mean, we used to bet

[20:41] them together. This used to be like one

[20:42] of the great angles there was when you

[20:44] know incentives week uh what was 17

[20:48] where like you know like oh my god and

[20:50] then people like sale came along uh and

[20:53] now now it's week six. They're not even

[20:56] waiting. I even saw someone got the jump

[20:58] on sale. It was some other Yeah, it was

[21:00] some other guy there where he got the

[21:03] quote tweet first and then of course

[21:05] sale said, "Oh, somebody's somebody's

[21:07] stealing my gig here on my street." Uh,

[21:10] now we're doing this in week 16 and then

[21:14] are going to be on 17 18 like this.

[21:16] Okay, this is the first year I've ever

[21:18] seen it like

[21:19] >> before last week of the season. Um, so

[21:23] it's just a race to the bottom here for

[21:26] guys that, you know, don't actually bet

[21:28] but are like, "How can I get clicks?"

[21:30] And in year people would be I remember

[21:31] you'd see some like rubes and years. Oh,

[21:34] thank you, S. Oh my goodness. I can't

[21:36] believe can't believe you're giving this

[21:37] information out for free. Uh, so um

[21:40] yeah, now now it's just I mean it's

[21:43] going to be like yeah the week one and

[21:45] they be like, "Oh, we only need you know

[21:47] 102 more catches to hit there." So, uh,

[21:50] tough to see, but this angle's been dead

[21:52] for years now.

[21:53] >> What what we should do with content is

[21:55] bring up these at the start of the

[21:56] season, say for futures markets. That's

[21:58] how you should approach. That's how you

[21:59] get in on it the earliest possible. Uh,

[22:02] Mike, I see you kind of chuckling with

[22:03] this one. Uh, I'm sure you're not fond

[22:05] of this content either.

[22:07] >> So, I'd push back against Blaze Bet

[22:09] saying that everything is priced in and

[22:10] they know like whatever you think you're

[22:12] finding, the sports books don't. I the

[22:15] reason they know is usually because I I

[22:17] guarantee you sports backs are putting

[22:19] these lines up without knowing and then

[22:21] getting hit a couple times very quickly

[22:22] and then moving. I mean, maybe they'll

[22:24] know some of them, but they're not going

[22:25] to know every player's incentive for the

[22:28] most part. Uh maybe now it's getting so

[22:30] much attention they will, but there's

[22:32] definitely leaks where you can find

[22:33] spots uh that are available. Like you

[22:35] said, the futures thing is honestly

[22:37] something where if they do have some

[22:39] kind of market that's like less

[22:43] um I'm trying to think the that's less

[22:45] obvious where you can find incentives,

[22:47] there might still be stuff there. Um

[22:49] yeah, I if you're going for the most

[22:51] basic, this guy needs 73 yards, then of

[22:54] course it's already priced in. Um where

[22:56] I would look is stuff like alts, stuff

[22:58] like SGPS where it might not be

[23:00] correlated correctly. Uh there's still

[23:02] going to be weird stuff to find

[23:03] available, but once it's posted on

[23:06] Twitter like that, it's no longer going

[23:07] to be easy to find.

[23:08] >> Isaac, anything to add from you?

[23:11] >> Yeah, it's crazy like how many people

[23:13] send me this stuff, right? Like it's

[23:15] like shocking to me. I see it, I'm like,

[23:16] "Oh, this is a joke." And then I'll have

[23:17] five different people send me it. And I

[23:19] just it's hard to like how do you get

[23:21] across to someone that if you are seeing

[23:23] this on a TikTok with 500,000 views, it

[23:26] is almost certainly not an edge. To

[23:28] Mike's point as well, I think there's

[23:30] like I've done some stuff like this

[23:31] live. Sometimes sort of the the live

[23:33] models will reset and let's say, you

[23:35] know, someone needs or whatever like 80

[23:37] yards for, you know, whatever and they

[23:40] start the first half, they only get like

[23:41] two yards, then the the live line might

[23:43] be good. It might not be good,

[23:44] obviously. Uh but, uh, yeah, some good

[23:47] thing to keep in mind when you're sort

[23:48] of live betting as well. I NFL is not my

[23:50] thing so I'm not an expert there but uh

[23:52] yeah always look at as Mike said the

[23:54] alts the live lines and have some idea

[23:57] of what the fair price should be and you

[23:58] know sometimes you can just line shop

[24:00] around and see massive variation and

[24:02] that can be good as well.

[24:03] >> So the problem hosting and going last I

[24:05] was going to say the same thing. I feel

[24:06] like you're more you're better off

[24:07] looking in the live markets near the end

[24:09] of a game. So, like for example, last

[24:12] season, Mike Evans, the last the game

[24:14] was was done. Last drive of the game for

[24:16] the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, they threw

[24:18] four straight passes to Mike Evans to

[24:20] get him over his 1,000 yards in the

[24:22] season. Something like that. Maybe it is

[24:24] priced in, but again, is this something

[24:26] that a live betting algorithm is going

[24:27] to be picking up? Probably not when they

[24:30] could maybe just kneel out the game or

[24:32] just run out the clock essentially. So,

[24:34] >> or or like take advantage

[24:36] >> like a couple weeks ago, you know,

[24:38] LeBron's got four points in the fourth

[24:39] quarter. You just hammer the 10, right?

[24:41] Because of course, it's going to get 10

[24:42] points. So, uh yeah, sometimes doesn't

[24:44] always go right.

[24:45] >> Did you do that?

[24:46] >> Yeah, I did on the day on the night it

[24:48] went under.

[24:49] >> I was close. Uh I was looking at it, but

[24:51] it wasn't I didn't I it was like priced

[24:54] correctly to me. I guess maybe you

[24:56] thought differently. Maybe we saw it at

[24:58] different times, but I think he had like

[24:59] six and it was like minus 250 and I was

[25:01] like, uh, he's probably going to shoot

[25:04] for it, but probably not the price that

[25:06] I need there. But anyways, something

[25:07] that the exactly something the algorithm

[25:09] may not be picking up is there's another

[25:11] example of it there. Before we go any

[25:13] further, you probably already know that

[25:14] we have a Discord here at the Hammer

[25:16] Network, but let me tell you a little

[25:18] bit more about it. We know the Hammer is

[25:20] truly like a family. Familiar faces,

[25:22] inside jokes, and the one person that

[25:24] everyone likes picking on. Well, here's

[25:26] your chance to continue the

[25:27] conversation. Join our new Hammer

[25:29] Discord. A chance for us to discuss all

[25:31] the games and news, share our favorite

[25:33] bets, and interact with your favorite

[25:34] Hammer creators. Discord.gg/hammer

[25:37] to join now or visit a link in the

[25:39] description. Next topic comes from

[25:41] originally Ryan Butler at Bututler, who

[25:43] says that Massachusetts regulators have

[25:45] advanced a rule requiring sports books

[25:47] in the state that limit betterers to

[25:49] give specific explanations as to why and

[25:52] a list of markets in which they are

[25:54] banned. So essentially saying that sport

[25:56] that Massachusetts are considering

[25:57] implementing something that sports books

[25:59] have to reveal why somebody is getting

[26:01] limited on their platform. They need to

[26:02] be alerted specifically why they're

[26:03] getting limited. They need to be alerted

[26:05] specifically as to what markets they are

[26:07] being limited from. And the first thing

[26:09] that I thought when I read this was the

[26:12] same thing that Plus EV Analytics

[26:13] tweeted here. It was in a quote tweet to

[26:15] R. Lahan senior or SR saying that

[26:18] Massachusetts is doing this. Plus TV

[26:20] analytics say I'm excited to watch the

[26:22] competition for which book can come up

[26:23] with the most asinine PR word salad for

[26:27] quote reason why the limit is in place.

[26:30] So I'll go over to you Isaac. Um think

[26:33] you'd be best served to lead off on this

[26:35] one here. Do you think it is positive

[26:37] for the space for sports books to have

[26:39] to reveal this information on limits?

[26:42] >> Yeah, I mean I think transparency is

[26:43] almost always a good thing, right? So

[26:45] the the policy is probably good as you

[26:48] said. And I'm very curious to see what

[26:49] they say. I think I'm I'm particularly

[26:51] interested to see sort of how they how

[26:53] they break it down by market as someone

[26:55] who has been known to be sharp in some

[26:57] things and very not sharp in others.

[26:59] I've had plenty of accounts where, you

[27:01] know, certain things I'm allowed to bet

[27:02] on and certain things I'm not. So just

[27:04] imagine DK being like, "Yeah, you know,

[27:06] you're not allowed to bet on tennis, but

[27:07] go crazy on NFL. Do whatever you want."

[27:09] I, you know, it's probably not going to

[27:11] make much of a difference if

[27:12] Massachusetts is the only state that's

[27:14] doing this and it's going forward. you

[27:15] know, most people have already been

[27:17] limited there, but uh yeah, I can tell

[27:19] you I'll be texting some friends in

[27:20] Massachusetts and and and giving them

[27:22] some good bets to place just so we can

[27:24] get limited and so we can get a a peak

[27:25] at what those uh what those messages

[27:27] will be like. I'm not sure how quickly

[27:28] they have to implement this, but I'm

[27:29] excited to see them.

[27:31] >> And how about you, Mike? Do you think

[27:32] that this would be good for sports books

[27:34] to take on?

[27:35] >> I I just want to know whose bets Isaac

[27:37] is sending to these people to get them

[27:38] limited. It's certainly not his, so I

[27:40] got I got to figure out who's he's

[27:42] getting to send them. But I don't I do

[27:44] think it will provide there's a lot of

[27:47] people whenever you talk to them there

[27:48] are so many people they're very

[27:50] surprised that sports books get to limit

[27:51] people. Um I talked to my normie friends

[27:54] about it and I was explaining the

[27:55] process and they're like they just are

[27:57] like bamboozled. They're like wait

[27:58] that's not allowed like why are you

[28:00] getting kicked out? They think I'm doing

[28:02] something nefarious or wrong. So, I do

[28:05] think that having them have to write it

[28:07] out, like Plus EV said, they're just

[28:09] going to put up some word salad, but it

[28:11] will be interesting kind of how much

[28:14] more publicity it gets that people now

[28:16] that they have to explain why they're

[28:17] doing it.

[28:19] >> How about you, Kesha?

[28:20] >> I am kind of fascinated to see how this

[28:23] plays out. I think there's a actually

[28:24] way to do it which would I mean you kind

[28:27] of know already when you're there but

[28:29] having to see you know like ah I hit

[28:31] something that but I'm interested to see

[28:33] what some of the c if nothing else

[28:36] probably going to make for some good

[28:37] content you know what I'm saying like

[28:39] tweet tweeting be like oh you know so um

[28:41] I mean it's not going to change anything

[28:43] re in terms of like like the logistics

[28:45] of it but I don't mind it and uh kind of

[28:48] excited to see what some of the

[28:49] responses come up with. So, I feel

[28:51] >> I'm curious also, sorry, I'm curious if

[28:54] they have like different messages or if

[28:56] they have the same one. So, for example,

[28:58] I'm thinking of I'm thinking of bet 365

[29:00] here where they send you the classic

[29:02] email where you're just like and

[29:03] everybody gets the exact same one when

[29:05] you're limited. Like, I'm curious, you

[29:06] know, if you're hitting super offmarket

[29:09] props versus you're just like getting a

[29:11] lot of CLV, like whether it's going to

[29:12] be one can message. I think it's

[29:14] probably going to be versus like some

[29:16] differentiation, but but we'll see.

[29:18] Mike, what do you think?

[29:19] Yeah, they're just going to go ahead and

[29:21] say like as brief as possible, as little

[29:23] information as possible. What is I don't

[29:25] know how they're going to regulate like

[29:27] what is telling the reason like they can

[29:29] give the most vague reason possible. You

[29:30] know, uh it was it's been a trading

[29:32] decision. Like that won't actually say

[29:34] anything. So, the more I think about it,

[29:36] the more I understand that this is going

[29:38] to be incredibly boring in the response

[29:40] they get. It's not like they're going to

[29:41] be like, "Hey, listen. You hit a line

[29:43] that was way off market. You shouldn't

[29:45] be scraping uh odds jam." It's not like

[29:47] they're going to give real reasons. are

[29:48] going to give the most vague uh you know

[29:51] cover their ass reason they can.

[29:52] >> That's why I think this is more like

[29:54] would it would be more infuriating than

[29:56] anything which I don't think this is a

[29:57] very good idea and I feel pretty unique

[29:58] in this scenario because I actually have

[30:00] experience receiving as plus analytics

[30:03] puts it the most asinine PR word salad.

[30:06] So I do content beyond just a hammer. I

[30:08] do like my own side stuff on a YouTube

[30:10] channel and on that YouTube channel a

[30:12] sports book is trying to sponsor my

[30:14] YouTube channel. Undisclosed Sports was

[30:15] trying to sponsor my YouTube channel and

[30:17] it's a sports book in which I had like

[30:19] pennies for limits. I couldn't bet there

[30:21] at all. They wanted me to do uh some

[30:23] collab bets to put up on the platform.

[30:25] And my issue was I didn't want to do

[30:27] collab bets. I literally wasn't allowed

[30:29] to bet. So, I asked the team that

[30:31] reached out to me if they could talk to

[30:32] the traders to get the limits taken off

[30:35] of my account to try and be able to bet

[30:37] on there again. And they provided me the

[30:40] word essentially that the trading team

[30:42] informed them. It was I I I could I

[30:43] tried to find the exact test message,

[30:45] but I guess it's gone now. But it was

[30:47] something along the lines of placing

[30:48] unfair wages. And now granted, like I'm

[30:50] I'm betting top down. I understand

[30:52] completely why I was limited. I don't

[30:53] need them to tell me why I'm being

[30:55] limited. But it was something lines of

[30:56] unfair wages, which is just for them me

[30:59] picking off offmarket numbers. So I

[31:01] imagine if this is put into place,

[31:04] that's what people are going to get

[31:06] making unfair wages or something along

[31:07] the lines of that. Um, you know, they

[31:09] did actually take off limits on my

[31:11] promos on on promotions, but not for for

[31:15] uh regular straight betting. So, at

[31:16] least I got a little bit of juice back

[31:18] into that account from that

[31:18] conversation. But I don't see this

[31:20] having any benefit at all. In fact, I

[31:22] think this is this is a negative for the

[31:24] industry if something like this comes to

[31:25] play because it just won't do anything.

[31:26] It'll just, I think, make people more

[31:29] upset. So, we'll see. We'll see if uh

[31:32] anybody follows this practice. But I I

[31:34] think even now that I think about it,

[31:36] like Mike pointed out, uh people

[31:38] couldn't believe that people like get

[31:40] limited, you know, like it's just, you

[31:43] know, Sportsbook puts out market, you

[31:45] should be able to bet what you want on

[31:47] the market that they're putting out.

[31:48] Would this not like would this not kind

[31:50] of attract attention to the fact that

[31:53] you can get limited on Sports? I feel

[31:54] like that should be information they

[31:55] don't want to come out like very much to

[31:58] like the public.

[31:59] >> Yeah, 100%. That's why I do think that

[32:01] there is probably some good that comes

[32:04] from this is the fact that this will

[32:06] have to be talked about more. And if

[32:08] you're a sports book and you're like,

[32:09] "Ah, we don't want to deal with it."

[32:11] You're maybe less likely to pull the

[32:12] trigger quite as fast.

[32:14] >> I don't know. I don't think it will do

[32:15] much, but I don't think that it will do

[32:18] a ton of bad necessarily. So,

[32:22] only upside, I guess.

[32:23] >> All right. Well, let's transition now.

[32:25] We'll get into the comments from the

[32:26] previous week show. We like to feature

[32:28] comments that we got on the previous

[32:30] week's edition of the show. So if you

[32:31] have a take, you have a comment, make

[32:33] sure you leave it down below on YouTube

[32:34] and maybe you'll feature next week on

[32:37] actually there's no surprise. There's no

[32:39] Circle Back Friday next week because

[32:40] it's Boxing Day, but we do have

[32:41] something special coming next Friday. We

[32:43] have an endofear special which we'll

[32:45] talk a little bit more about on the

[32:47] Monday show. So stay tuned for that. You

[32:48] want to be subscribed to the channel,

[32:50] but we still like to hear your comments

[32:51] nonetheless. Anyways, first comment

[32:53] comes from Sick Money08. says, "Arguing

[32:56] with Zilbert is the pigeon analogy to a

[32:59] tea." And that's why you just got to

[33:01] mute him and you just got to let it just

[33:03] let it pass you by. But there's some

[33:05] people out there, Mike, you say he's

[33:07] like the goat. There's some people out

[33:09] there who just cannot help themselves.

[33:11] People in very large positions cannot

[33:13] help themselves but argue with it. What

[33:15] What is it about his game?

[33:17] >> I've been gassing up Zilbert since day

[33:19] one, getting him on my side. So,

[33:21] whenever I need somebody to go in and

[33:23] bother someone else that I don't think

[33:25] is, you know, doing things right, I have

[33:26] Zilbert ready to go. Uh, me and the cat

[33:29] are partners and I think he's the king

[33:31] of gambling Twitter. If anything, I

[33:33] think he should be uh, you know, maybe

[33:34] we should try to get him into other

[33:36] media platforms and see how he does.

[33:38] Nah, I take that back. I think Zilbert's

[33:40] better in small doses. I Let's keep him

[33:42] on Twitter only.

[33:43] >> Well, he was on a media platform for a

[33:45] period of time that for some reason he's

[33:48] not there anymore or he's on leave or

[33:50] something. I I forget what the exact

[33:52] exact term is, but he's on leave. He's

[33:53] not doing content anymore. Um, but

[33:56] Isaac, what do you what do you think on

[33:58] Zilbert?

[34:00] >> Yeah, I'm I'm a big fan of the mute

[34:02] button for uh for any any any people who

[34:06] uh you know, you don't find their

[34:07] comments or or their their commentary

[34:09] too enjoyable, you just you just mute

[34:11] mute them and you'll never hear from

[34:12] them. It's great. Exactly. You move on.

[34:14] Except I get tagged in I get tagged in

[34:16] like all all the wrongdoings. Now the

[34:18] issue is I'm getting tagged and

[34:20] everything which like great. It's funny

[34:22] guys but like you got to leave me alone

[34:24] with this stuff too. I'm trying to just

[34:25] >> Yeah, you were you were getting tagged

[34:27] asking why I I had certain people muted

[34:29] or blocked. That was those are my

[34:31] favorites.

[34:32] >> Yeah, for sure. Uh next comment comes

[34:34] from Andrew W who says Chiron Moore will

[34:37] be back. Two words, Bobby Petrino. Uh

[34:41] kind of wanted to get your take on this

[34:42] one. Kesh uh res native. You think he's

[34:45] coming back?

[34:46] >> When this all went down the day it up, I

[34:48] was like, "Ah, he's done for." Then I

[34:50] had about like 48 hours to marinate on

[34:52] it and I was like, I saw the Harbaugh

[34:56] comment and I was like, you know what?

[34:58] He's probably like an offensive analyst

[35:00] for the Chargers in two years. Like it

[35:02] just the NFL I I think college he's

[35:05] probably toast. Getting an NFL job. He

[35:08] was a pretty good offensive line coach.

[35:11] Uh, I mean, the crash shot IF WITH NO

[35:13] CRASH OUT, he'd probably have a job in

[35:15] like a week in the NFL. The crash out

[35:17] looks bad, but as soon as like the the

[35:20] Chargers or the discipline are over

[35:21] with, um, yeah, I could see him back in

[35:24] an NFL gig. There's always another job.

[35:26] Our prile's got another job. Like, it's

[35:28] just one of those, especially in today's

[35:30] world where the news cycle is like this

[35:33] maybe, I don't know, 20 years ago, then

[35:35] it would have been like no. Nowadays,

[35:37] people be like, "Oh, Chiron Moore was

[35:39] like a year." So yeah, I think he I

[35:41] think he's back in. Got to got to let

[35:43] the the heat cool down, but a year or

[35:47] two he'll be back.

[35:49] >> The difference between Bobby Betrino and

[35:51] Art Briles and Chiron Moore is that Art

[35:54] Briles, for all his flaws, is a good

[35:56] football coach. Chiron Moore, the worst

[35:59] crime he did was to Bryce Underwood's

[36:01] development in my eyes. I mean, I think

[36:03] that there's no I mean, maybe I should

[36:05] say there's no way. Maybe he gets a job

[36:06] as an analyst like you said in the pros,

[36:08] Joey. uh he knows a lot of people, but

[36:11] the difference between him and Patrino

[36:13] is success on the football field, which

[36:15] sadly is um maybe the most important

[36:17] part of all this.

[36:19] >> And the last comment that we have comes

[36:21] from at ACL tear 7. This is in reference

[36:23] to something you said last week. Mike,

[36:25] you you took issue with Michigan

[36:27] apparently knowing about the situation

[36:28] with Shiron Moore but not revealing it

[36:30] until after they were signing players to

[36:33] their school for the upcoming season.

[36:35] And you said that this was kind of

[36:36] putting the kids are getting signed

[36:38] second. There is a disagreement here

[36:39] with ACL tear 7 saying, "I think we got

[36:41] to take a step back with the kids are

[36:43] being put second. Yeah, they're young,

[36:45] but they're grown men at this point.

[36:47] Undoubtedly, they have attempted to

[36:48] manipulate football programs throughout

[36:50] the recruitment process. There are very

[36:52] few innocent people in this sport." Uh,

[36:55] how do you feel about this comment?

[36:56] >> So, the argument is that the these uh

[36:59] 17-year-olds in high school are

[37:01] manipulating uh these giant

[37:03] universities. Like, give me a give me a

[37:05] break, man. Like, what are you talking

[37:07] about? Uh yeah. Yeah. I just to me it's

[37:10] insane these kids and that's not a

[37:12] Michigan thing. These kids have always

[37:14] been kind of taken advantage and you

[37:16] know done whatever. I understand that

[37:18] players also when they have the power do

[37:21] something similar. I think that we

[37:23] should ask more of our universities uh

[37:25] than we do of 17year-old high school

[37:27] football players.

[37:30] >> And how about you Kesh? Do you think

[37:31] there was any issue in what Michigan are

[37:33] doing there?

[37:34] >> Nope. Seems fine to me. Of course. How

[37:38] about Isaac? Uh, more neutral party.

[37:41] >> Do you even know we're discussing here?

[37:43] >> No. No comment. No comment. I'll leave

[37:45] this to the the big boys.

[37:47] >> All right. We'll progress with the show

[37:48] then. We'll get into the next main topic

[37:51] on the show, which comes from franchise

[37:53] KF saying, "I would love to charge and

[37:56] challenge any and everyone to Raw Dog

[37:58] the Bowl slate from December 22nd to

[38:01] 27th. No bets, no DFS. Just try to watch

[38:04] all 16 games. quite possibly the worst

[38:07] oneweek stretch in bowl history. Kenish,

[38:10] um, is there a problem with this stretch

[38:12] of bowl games here?

[38:13] >> I got to tell you, I we taped this on

[38:16] Thursday. I let I got into the ODU South

[38:19] Florida game last night for about four

[38:22] possessions. I saw two possessions

[38:24] either way. I saw the quarterback play.

[38:26] I said, "I'm out." Tuned back in later

[38:29] to the Delaware UL game. soon as the

[38:32] ullll quarterback I was on Louisiana got

[38:34] hurt was banged up Delaware takes a lead

[38:37] I was out I haven't made it through a

[38:39] full bowl game yet um so no I will say I

[38:42] had one of the worst mistakes of my

[38:44] entire life was LIKE OH YOU KNOW AND hit

[38:46] the books a few years ago was like oh

[38:48] you know what you get to watch them

[38:49] stand alone you get to no awful wrong as

[38:53] wrong as I've been in my entire life uh

[38:55] this bowl season now has turned and you

[38:58] see team the only thing I'll say is if

[39:01] you're a diehard, you might see some

[39:03] guys, if you're like a diehard USF fan

[39:05] or something or die hard, you might see

[39:07] some like guys who you didn't see play

[39:09] all year like, "Oh, we're going to empty

[39:11] the bench or I don't know if you're

[39:13] related to some of these people." You're

[39:14] like, "Oh, we get to finally see little

[39:16] Johnny uh you know, play get make a

[39:18] tackle or something like that." In terms

[39:20] of watchability,

[39:22] horrific. It's gotten as bad as I can

[39:25] ever remember. Uh and bowl season is in

[39:29] terms of a product you want to see dead.

[39:31] Put the final nail in the coffin. Dead.

[39:34] >> Mike big college football enjoyer. Do

[39:36] you agree with Kenishh?

[39:37] >> I watched the entire USF Old Dominion

[39:40] game last night. So yeah, I was ready to

[39:42] pounce when that third string

[39:44] quarterback for USF came in uh and

[39:46] looked like he couldn't complete a

[39:47] forward pass. So it's a great betting

[39:49] opportunity if you like live betting. If

[39:51] you think you uh you know exist on ball

[39:53] knowledge is uh what you rely on to win

[39:56] your bets. Live betting these games is

[39:58] definitely something because nobody

[40:00] knows going in. It's at least uh

[40:02] efficient as far as closing lines. You

[40:04] can watch and kind of see what's

[40:05] happening on the field. Um and you know

[40:08] make your assessment from there. I think

[40:09] that these games are quality of play

[40:11] terrible. Uh quality of enjoyment very

[40:14] high for me. I can't say that I would,

[40:18] you know, bemoone anyone complaining

[40:20] about these games. It's certainly not

[40:21] what they used to be, uh, with the opt

[40:23] outs and guys transferring and some of

[40:25] the guys playing might not be on the

[40:26] team next year. Uh, it's really weird,

[40:28] but they put them on over the Christmas

[40:30] season when I'm back home with family.

[40:32] And guess what? I'm going to turn on no

[40:34] matter who's playing for each team. I'm

[40:35] going to turn on the bowl game. So,

[40:37] sadly, I don't see them getting any

[40:38] better, but uh, they're good enough to

[40:41] meet my low bar of expectations. I'm a

[40:44] non-ol football watcher, so I don't

[40:46] really have opinion on this. I'll test

[40:47] the waters. Isaac, do you have any

[40:48] thoughts on on the bowl game stretch

[40:50] here? No, nothing. We'll leave it to the

[40:52] big dogs, as you said, on this one once

[40:54] again or anybody in the comments who

[40:56] maybe wants to sound off on anything

[40:57] related to college football. But we've

[40:59] talked a little bit of college football

[41:01] here on the circles off channel, but

[41:02] I'll tell you at the Herb Ner, we have a

[41:05] channel that is completely dedicated to

[41:06] giving you college football content. To

[41:09] hit the books channel, the link is in

[41:10] the description to subscribe to that

[41:12] channel. We have co-host Joey Kesh on

[41:14] with us right now. Kesh, can you tell us

[41:16] what to expect out of Hit the Books

[41:17] during the holiday season?

[41:19] >> We've got special holiday schedule

[41:22] coming up. We're going to be on Monday,

[41:25] Friday doing some live streams on

[41:27] Saturday. We'll have a watch along going

[41:29] for one of the playoff games. Me and the

[41:31] Godfather of CFB. WE'VE GOT THE WE'VE

[41:35] TAKEN THIS network on the back during

[41:38] the holidays when Canadians don't work

[41:40] for four months and nobody's watching

[41:41] any other crap shows on this network.

[41:43] Hit the books, baby. We'll be live and

[41:46] GOING HARD ALL THROUGHOUT THE COLLEGE

[41:48] PLAYOFF RUN. You don't want to miss it.

[41:51] Me and BP, let's go. Get heated. We'll

[41:54] see you live for Hit the Books Monday,

[41:56] Friday, and be on the lookout for the

[41:57] live watch along coming up for one of

[41:59] the playoff games. Well, contrary to

[42:00] Kesh, the Hit the Book Show is great for

[42:02] college football content, but we do

[42:03] other great content in the Hammer

[42:05] network. All those channels in the

[42:06] network are linked in description for

[42:08] you to go watch and enjoy and subscribe

[42:10] to. As for holiday content, I'm going to

[42:12] be working extra hard next week to help

[42:14] produce the end of year Circle Back

[42:17] special. We're going to be looking at

[42:18] some of the best content from the year.

[42:20] We'll talk a little bit more about it on

[42:21] Monday, but that's coming at you in

[42:22] place of this show next Friday on Boxing

[42:25] Day. So stay tuned for that one. But

[42:27] we'll get back to this show present

[42:29] here. Last main topic on the show today

[42:32] comes from Golden Pants at golden

[42:34] pants013 saying, "All right, who wants

[42:37] some YouTube golf action?" It's a Kouchy

[42:39] screenshot from a YouTube golf event.

[42:41] How many course records will Bryson

[42:43] Deshawn Bo break in his c in his course

[42:46] record series on YouTube during 2026? So

[42:50] interesting that you can bet on YouTube

[42:52] golf at this point and particularly a

[42:54] PGA player. And it feels like I I I

[42:56] don't know. It feels like maybe there's

[42:58] a chance for some of these to be

[43:00] influenced by the player. It just feels

[43:01] a little bit weird. Isaac, do you kind

[43:03] of see where I have maybe a little bit

[43:05] of concern with this one?

[43:07] >> Yeah, I do see where you have some

[43:09] concern. I will also say that I I kind

[43:11] of think this is prediction markets at

[43:14] their best. Not for this specific

[43:15] market, but you have something that you

[43:17] know other places might not take any

[43:19] action on and you have someone like

[43:21] Golden Pants who will just throw up a

[43:22] price. I will say I was uh recently at

[43:25] an exhibition match at Madison Square

[43:27] Garden for some from tennis players and

[43:29] I was looking to get a little sweat on

[43:30] it and there were no there were no lines

[43:32] anywhere which you know in one sense is

[43:34] probably for the best in the other sense

[43:35] you know the people want to gamble uh

[43:37] let let them gamble. So uh yeah I think

[43:39] I you know I I hope someone takes all of

[43:41] Golden Pants's money here.

[43:43] >> I'm of the opinion that if you've got an

[43:45] edge like why not bet on anything?

[43:47] There's there's people this is like the

[43:49] classic like you know preseason sport

[43:50] people say if you're betting on YouTube

[43:52] golf you need to call the number where

[43:54] oh I disagree and I'm sure Mike would as

[43:56] well when you have unique markets like

[43:58] this but gives you more unique

[44:00] opportunities to find edges.

[44:02] >> Yeah I I'm the garbage man. I love every

[44:04] garbage market there is. Uh if I knew

[44:07] anything about golf I would be right

[44:09] there with golden pants offering this

[44:10] market. Uh but I don't. So I will say uh

[44:14] it doesn't seem like a very interesting

[44:15] bet to me. How about you, Kenish? You

[44:17] doing any any fills on YouTube Golf or

[44:19] anything like that?

[44:20] >> I was hoping in your intro you'd lead in

[44:22] because one I don't watch golf. I sure

[44:24] as hell don't watch YouTube golf. Is he

[44:26] doing is it like how many of these

[44:28] courses is he playing?

[44:31] >> I I don't know.

[44:32] >> That's right. None of us are really You

[44:33] can tell diehard golf fans here because

[44:35] I HAVE NO IDEA. MY THOUGHT WOULD be like

[44:38] I don't know. I mean also course like

[44:40] he's just going to some random public

[44:42] courses around

[44:42] >> Yeah. It's like a series he does on his

[44:43] YouTube channel. Has he broken any

[44:47] before? Um,

[44:49] >> I'm sure he has.

[44:50] >> I don't It's just like I don't know.

[44:52] >> You know, actually, I don't know the

[44:53] answer to that question, but I'm sure

[44:54] I'm sure HE HAS.

[44:55] >> MY MY THOUGHT WOULD BE like I can't

[44:58] imagine

[45:00] I don't know. I'm going in blind here. I

[45:02] want to say no.

[45:03] >> One of the top top PGA player, one of

[45:04] the best golf players in the world. He

[45:06] goes to like some local course. What if

[45:08] I don't know some like you know a

[45:10] amateur like pro amateurs who's been

[45:12] like the club pro at uh I don't know you

[45:15] know Detroit country club who's been

[45:16] playing there for 30 years had the round

[45:19] of his life once over 30 years and now

[45:21] Bryson's got to shoot minus 16 in one

[45:24] round I don't know that's my thought

[45:26] with knowing nothing

[45:28] >> maybe I'll bet some no well hey bet the

[45:30] no you've got 24 cents on on the nose

[45:34] courts record broken

[45:35] >> based on Kurt's previous opinions If

[45:37] you're a YouTube golfer, you know,

[45:38] anybody, any Joe Schmo that Joey's

[45:40] talking about, they can just make the

[45:41] tour, be top three, probably be the

[45:43] Masters champion by the end of the

[45:44] thing. So, I think that uh basically

[45:47] these records should have already been

[45:49] broken by him, I would assume.

[45:51] >> See, well, this I mean, so some of the

[45:53] guys you're mentioning there are not pro

[45:55] golfers like Deshawn B. So, anyways, I I

[45:58] think this is unique. There's not a lot

[45:59] of volume in this market here. $471 at

[46:02] the at the time that this screenshot was

[46:03] posted. Maybe there's more now because

[46:05] of the script. Someone already bought up

[46:08] all the no on the on the one course

[46:10] record broken.

[46:11] >> Oh, really?

[46:12] >> So, maybe I am one of the sharpest

[46:14] YouTube golf batters in the in the

[46:16] earth. That someone just beat me to the

[46:18] punch and that golden pants price was

[46:20] trash.

[46:20] >> You You got to use the link in

[46:22] description to sign up to Cali and get

[46:23] this market before somebody else.

[46:25] >> I'm not I ALREADY SIGNED UP. I'M ON THE

[46:27] APP RIGHT NOW LOOKING AT IT. I BROUGHT

[46:28] THIS TO take his money, but it's already

[46:29] Someone already stole his Someone

[46:31] already stole the golden pances. Robbed

[46:32] his pickpocketed him.

[46:34] >> Well, there you go. Uh we'll get into

[46:36] the chopping block on the show for

[46:38] today, the final segment where we cover

[46:40] the stories that didn't require a main

[46:42] portion of the show today, but we still

[46:45] wanted to discuss in at least a little

[46:48] bit of the show. So, first one comes

[46:50] from originally Jared Whis NBA saying,

[46:53] "Victoryama explains why he's why he

[46:56] said he wants to play ethical basketball

[46:58] after beating the Thunder." This was

[46:59] after their NBA Cup semi-final win over

[47:01] the OKC Thunder. A bit of an quite an

[47:03] upset. I think it was like a 10 and a

[47:05] half point spread there. But he says in

[47:06] modern basketball we see lots a lot of

[47:08] brands of basketball that don't offer

[47:10] much variety in dangers they propose to

[47:12] the opponents. Lots of isolation ball

[47:14] and sometimes kind of forced basketball.

[47:16] We try to propose a brand of basketball

[47:18] that can be described as more old school

[47:20] sometimes the Spurs way as well. And Max

[47:22] Tanny said fully on board with

[47:24] pretentious Webyama. He's going to save

[47:26] the league from a crisis of boring

[47:28] superstars who never say anything

[47:29] interesting like SGA Joic and Giannis.

[47:33] Mike, do you agree with where Max is

[47:35] coming from here? Do you think WebMyama

[47:36] is the savior the NBA needs?

[47:39] >> No foul baiting. I'll I'll be with WBY

[47:42] there. I will say some of the

[47:43] pretentious and he's talking about the

[47:45] Thunder. They don't play a sophisticated

[47:47] style of basketball. I uh I'm starting

[47:50] to turn a little bit on Wemby here. I've

[47:52] been pro WBY so far. He's got to go to

[47:54] uh got to train with monks to learn

[47:56] meditation. Oh, I'm sorry. Your first

[47:57] level of meditation is not advanced

[47:59] enough. You have to go to the monks. I'm

[48:01] starting to talking bad about my city,

[48:03] Las Vegas, uh my former home. I'm

[48:06] starting to turn here on WBY. I like him

[48:08] still, but I think that in eventually in

[48:11] two years, the only positive perception

[48:14] of him probably won't be unanimous

[48:16] anymore.

[48:17] >> Okay, interesting. U Isaac, I don't know

[48:19] how much you dabble with NBA, but if you

[48:21] do, what are your thoughts this? If you

[48:23] don't, what's kind of your outward

[48:25] perception of Victor Webama at this

[48:26] point?

[48:27] >> Yeah, I'm a I'm a big Webby fan. I love

[48:30] the I love the philos the players turn

[48:32] philosophers especially when they seem

[48:34] to know something like oftentimes they

[48:36] just don't seems like a super smart guy

[48:38] you know uh he came to New York I think

[48:40] it was last year just playing chess with

[48:42] people he's you know reading marks we

[48:44] got him one of my favorite pictures if

[48:47] you guys have seen with the monks in

[48:49] China that's like one of the hardest

[48:51] pictures of all time uh so yeah you know

[48:53] more more philosophizing from not from

[48:56] the others

[48:57] >> oh must be great to be a philosopher

[48:58] that this What made you the great NBA

[49:00] player? You are 7 foot6. Yeah. Wow. You

[49:03] know so much. That's what's doing it. Uh

[49:06] yeah, I'm starting to turn right now

[49:07] just hearing Isaac talk about him.

[49:09] >> One of uh so when I watched this video

[49:12] after the game, I'm kind of on Mike's

[49:13] side actually with this one. It reminded

[49:15] me of the scene from Step Brothers where

[49:17] Seth Rogan's character is doing the job

[49:19] interview with uh uh the step brother in

[49:21] the show and he's like the tuxedos and a

[49:24] job interview that's funny. And then at

[49:25] the end of the interview, he after John

[49:28] Cy Riot character farts and pissed him

[49:30] off, he goes, "Hm, maybe the tuxedos are

[49:33] kind of [ __ ] up." That's what I kind

[49:34] of get. Like I I see this and I go, "Hm,

[49:36] maybe maybe learning from monks in China

[49:39] was kind of [ __ ] up after everyone

[49:41] kind of like, wow, look atama

[49:44] meditating with monks." Uh, Kenish,

[49:46] anything to add on this topic?

[49:48] >> I just I I'm I'm in the Wimi camp. I

[49:50] love him. I like that he's a little

[49:52] salty. Uh, I like that. I don't I don't

[49:54] I'll be honest with you. I don't know

[49:55] what the [ __ ] he's talking about with

[49:57] this traditional basketball thing versus

[49:58] what OKC does. All I know is OKC never

[50:00] loses. So, I don't care what brand of

[50:03] basketball they're playing. But all all

[50:05] signs give me uh Wimi. I love them.

[50:08] >> All right. Uh, next one comes from Jack

[50:11] Settleman and a little bit of Dave

[50:14] Portoi because um, Portoi got really

[50:17] upset with Settleman because Jack Sman

[50:19] said some pretty big sports media news.

[50:21] Part of my take is partnering with

[50:22] Netflix and taking their show off of

[50:24] YouTube. I can't wait for for circles

[50:26] off to be a YouTube exclusive, but for

[50:28] now, make sure you're subscribed on

[50:29] YouTube. Uh, thoughts to follow. And

[50:31] Portoi stool presidente was extremely

[50:35] upset by this. Um,

[50:38] not happy with settlement stance of of

[50:40] maybe not being in in favor of moving

[50:42] off going to Netflix. And he said, "This

[50:44] is laughable from a guy with an underdog

[50:46] logo saying PMT sold out." which is kind

[50:50] of funny because Jack Sleman's logo on

[50:52] his account is Snapback Sports, the the

[50:54] company he is a part of. However, as

[50:57] much as that's funny, does have Underdog

[50:59] in his bio, head of winning at Underdog.

[51:02] And he said in the replies specifically,

[51:04] he does get a paycheck from Underdog.

[51:07] But how do we feel about this kind of

[51:10] era now of sports media where like a

[51:12] show is being put exclusively on

[51:14] Netflix? Do we kind of think this is

[51:16] good for the state of of of affairs? Uh

[51:19] we'll go to Kesh first.

[51:20] >> Well, I'll tell you a couple things.

[51:22] One, it's getting really hard to ek out

[51:26] money in the the media business. So,

[51:29] you're seeing things like this where you

[51:31] know what, like, yeah, we can get a lot

[51:33] of YouTube views in the show, but it's

[51:35] actually more profitable dollar for

[51:37] dollar for us to make a exclusive deal

[51:40] with Netflix. The other side of it would

[51:43] say I think you got to be careful when

[51:46] you have a loyal audience and you just

[51:49] tweak how people get their content just

[51:53] a bit, it can go south. where is the

[51:56] same and you can say if I like to watch,

[51:59] you know, part of my take on YouTube at

[52:02] a certain time every week and now I have

[52:05] to log into Netflix at maybe a different

[52:08] time every week and see it in a little

[52:10] different format. Am I still going to do

[52:12] that? You know what I'm saying? You'll

[52:14] have your very small niche dieards that

[52:16] do it no matter what. But I think your

[52:18] general content viewer, people who

[52:20] would, you know, watch the show, you

[52:22] make it even just a minor inconvenience

[52:24] for them or take it out of the routine

[52:26] or where it's been for a long time. And

[52:29] I think you risk losing a large

[52:31] percentage of your audience. I'll be

[52:32] fascinated to see how this does, but

[52:35] it's one of those things where, you

[52:37] know, I don't think people are as loyal

[52:40] with so much content out there as as

[52:43] maybe, you know, like bar stool is

[52:45] anticipating people are for this.

[52:47] >> So, I I kind of agree with you there

[52:49] because like let's let's take this show

[52:51] for example. I feel like for a lot of

[52:53] people it kind of like pops up in their

[52:55] in their for you or section or the home

[52:57] tab and that's what makes them want to

[52:59] watch but without having that kind of

[53:00] reminder there maybe kind of takes

[53:02] people away from it. Isaac, what do you

[53:03] think on that one?

[53:07] >> Yeah, I agree with Joey. You know,

[53:08] people uh if if they see the same thing

[53:10] every time and they're seeing on the

[53:12] same platform, they get accustomed to

[53:13] it. Uh this was pretty funny to see to

[53:15] see Portoy rage, but uh no strong

[53:18] opinions. Uh you know, look, at the end

[53:20] of the day, it's a business, right? So,

[53:21] they're going to go where they can make

[53:22] the most money. And uh if it pisses off

[53:24] some fans, you know, the fans don't

[53:26] necessarily have a right to see them on

[53:28] YouTube every single day at the exact

[53:30] same time so they can do what's best for

[53:31] them.

[53:32] >> And we see a lot of like like I mean

[53:34] college is currently going through kind

[53:35] of a dilemma with college football that

[53:37] is with where you're able to watch it.

[53:39] So, kind of in the same situation here.

[53:41] Mike, what are your thoughts?

[53:42] >> Like you said, it mirrors sports where

[53:44] everything's getting harder to watch and

[53:45] in different places and it kind of

[53:46] stinks that way. At the same time, uh

[53:49] who are you? People are so like

[53:50] accustomed to getting content for free

[53:52] now that they just feel appalled that

[53:54] they would ever have to pay for content

[53:56] when we regularly did it pretty often,

[53:58] you know, until 10 years ago. So, go

[54:00] ahead, make your deal. I think that

[54:02] they're perfectly in their rights to do

[54:03] it. Uh people can complain, but I don't

[54:06] know. I don't think that you're owed any

[54:07] kind of content for free

[54:09] >> even when it's Go ahead. You

[54:11] >> Yeah, I I agree with Mike there. want to

[54:12] add one thing which is some of the like

[54:14] the worst takes I think are when people

[54:16] are like oh I could never pay you know

[54:18] like $7.99 a month for this streaming

[54:21] service or whatever you compare it to

[54:23] anything else you pay for in life the

[54:24] price of content is so so low like I

[54:28] literally I've been like at bars with

[54:29] people that are ordering a $20 cocktail

[54:31] and they're like no no no I can't watch

[54:32] that show it's on you know Paramount

[54:34] it's like I don't have it it's 13.99 a

[54:36] month I'm like do you hear yourself I

[54:37] mean the pennywise pound foolish so so

[54:40] yeah I'm I'm I'm taking a strong strong

[54:42] pro, you know, selling your content,

[54:44] making some money stance here.

[54:45] >> So, people just don't like when their

[54:48] routine is disrupted at all, even when

[54:49] money is not involved. Like, so, for

[54:52] example, when when we uh initially

[54:54] launched the the hammer, we had a

[54:56] specific hockey channel called Edgework,

[54:58] which we now do like a segment of that

[54:59] on the Hammer Daily, but we had like a

[55:01] dedicated NHL account uh Edgework, and

[55:04] we had a Bet Stamp account that was

[55:06] associated with that YouTube account

[55:07] where all the plays were posted

[55:08] publicly. I remember one day they

[55:10] decided like we've done enough promo on

[55:12] Bedstamp with like the show record and

[55:14] stuff. Now we're going to make the show

[55:16] record with like the pending pics

[55:17] private so people have to come to the

[55:19] YouTube channel to watch in order to get

[55:21] the pics that are free. All you have to

[55:22] do is go watch a free YouTube video to

[55:24] get the pics that you're already

[55:25] getting. And the backlash to that

[55:27] decision was so severe that they decided

[55:30] like we got to just let the pics be on

[55:33] bet stamp for free. Even though you can

[55:34] still get them for free here, we're

[55:36] going to keep it here for free. So, the

[55:38] fact that there's now money involved,

[55:39] yes, people are going to be extremely

[55:41] upset. Uh, last piece on the chopping

[55:43] block today comes from Mitch Moss. Radio

[55:45] says, "Summer 2021, I bet Buffalo minus

[55:48] 6 in a game of the in a game of the year

[55:50] at Jacksonville. They closed -6 and a

[55:52] half before kickoff and lost. Last week,

[55:55] I bet Seattleus 3 and a half Indie. In

[55:57] the look ahead market, Seahawks touched

[55:59] -14 and closed around -1 121 1316

[56:03] final. Nothing in sports betting is a

[56:06] lock ever." Isaac, I the our resident uh

[56:09] responsible gaming advocate. It's got to

[56:11] be you who goes first on this one.

[56:13] >> Yeah, I mean obviously good advice.

[56:15] Nothing is ever a lock. I I will say,

[56:17] you know, as someone who uh tends to

[56:20] enjoy bets that have higher odds, some

[56:22] long shots. I' I've never been of the

[56:24] camp that, you know, I think something

[56:26] is a lock. But, you know, we started off

[56:29] by by me asking Mike how much I should

[56:31] put on Anthony Joshua. So, you know,

[56:33] it's probably a good time to end. I got

[56:35] a lot of people telling me that one's a

[56:36] lock. So, uh I don't know. But yeah, you

[56:38] know, never never overextend yourself

[56:40] too much. These uh the big favorite bets

[56:42] are called bridge jumpers for a reason.

[56:44] You know, you don't want to be in a

[56:45] situation where you overextend yourself.

[56:47] >> I was going to segue to Mike by saying

[56:49] nothing is a lock except for Anthony

[56:50] Joshua, right?

[56:52] >> Yeah. Just as big of a lock as Mendoza.

[56:54] No, for Heisman. I think that uh Anthony

[56:57] Joshua uh it's going to be a dark day uh

[56:59] in the PB household if he doesn't win

[57:01] here. So, but yeah, I I also bet college

[57:04] football look aheads and the amount of

[57:07] swing that you get on some of these bets

[57:09] is insane. And then I also have had, you

[57:11] know, I had Oklahoma plus 10 and a half

[57:13] that ended up losing outright. Uh it's,

[57:16] you know, crazy things that you see uh

[57:18] along these college football lines

[57:20] especially, but there's obviously

[57:21] nothing that's ever 100%. And finally to

[57:24] you, Kenish, can you recall anything

[57:25] that felt like a stone, not a stone cold

[57:28] lock, but essentially a lock with how

[57:30] good of a price you got and it just

[57:31] didn't come through?

[57:32] >> Well, I say if you like stories like

[57:34] this, tune in to hit the books because

[57:36] Powers has one every single week. This

[57:38] is the This is the Brad P. I should have

[57:40] let in with this. This is the Brad

[57:42] Powers. Ah, I bet East Carolina's eight

[57:44] months ago minus three. They closed

[57:46] minus 38 and a half and they lost

[57:48] outright. So, um, yeah, there's been

[57:50] plenty of those in my day. Um, but yeah,

[57:54] that is the there's another show on that

[57:56] network if you want to hear these

[57:57] stories. Uh, there's one man that's got

[57:59] them for you.

[58:00] >> Yeah. I remember when, uh, he had a game

[58:01] that they just decided to not play the

[58:03] fourth quarter and it would have been

[58:05] hit the time requirements.

[58:07] >> Yeah. So, uh, but as China says that

[58:09] this stuff happens every week as a bad

[58:12] beat indeed. That'll do it for us on the

[58:14] show for today. That'll actually do it

[58:16] for us on the Circle Back Friday for the

[58:18] rest of 2025. Thank you for such an

[58:20] amazing year. We're looking forward to

[58:22] attacking the new year as well with this

[58:24] crew, but we'll see some of this crew on

[58:26] the end of year special, which you will

[58:28] see in place of this show in just one

[58:31] week's time, which means you should be

[58:32] subscribed to the channel to keep up to

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[58:51] the content. We will see you again next

[58:53] time. We're back on Monday with your

[58:54] typical Monday crew.