[00:00] Coming up in today's episode of CircleBack,>> there are reports coming out now thatMichigan was aware of this informationand intentionally waited to fire more

[00:10] until after signing day. So, they waiteduntil these kids were signed up to go totheir school.>> This news, it must have put GRP in ablender because he's probably alreadygot the market cornered here. So, I Idon't know how he's going to react to

[00:23] this.>> China talks about Jordan's undisputedgoat. You can't even put LeBron in thesame category. That's how I feel readingMatt Zilbert tweets.>> Disclaimer: The content presented inthis show is intended for entertainmentpurposes only. All opinions expressed

[00:36] are those of the hosts and do notnecessarily reflect the views oropinions of any individuals ororganizations mentioned. Statements madeabout public figures or entities arebased on publicly available information

[00:46] and are not intended to harm or defameany person or business. This show relieson fair use of social media posts whichare presented in good faith for thepurpose of commentary and criticism.

[00:57] Viewers and listeners are advised toform their own opinions. [music]

[01:07] A huge Chiron Moore scandal has got himfired as head coach of Michigan. We sawPhilip Rivers potentially about to makehis comeback on field in the NFL. A new

[01:19] change to gambling taxes. So much tocover today on Circle Back here on theCircles Off channel. It's part of theHammerbag network and presented by[music] Cali. This is the show, you knowit, where we cover the latest andgreatest news that comes from Gambling

[01:32] Twitter. And we're doing it with alittle bit of a different sort of castfor today's show because we don't haveJoey Kenish who is out for this one at aretirement party. Joey Corporate having

[01:43] to take care of some business there. Butwe do have the regular Mike aka Mr.Peanut Better in the bottom left cornerof the screen. out in the top righttoday making a return to the show isChina at China maniac and in the bottom

[01:56] right we've seen him frequently in thelast few months we have storm atStormPig thank you guys so much forjoining the show today China we'll giveyou kind of the lead off here how youdoing how you feeling about the topics

[02:07] we got today doing good I mean somegreat topics here we got a barn burnerit looks like we're starting it off herewith uh Chiron Moore so yeah I'm readyto go>> jump right into it then Chiron Moore I'm

[02:19] sure if to no sports at all. Even ifyou're not the biggest college sportsfan, you've seen this one. Chiron Moorewas it was revealed that he was fired ashead coach of the Michigan of of

[02:30] Michigan the Michigan Wolverines, excuseme. However, that was just the tip ofthe iceberg. Adam Shfter updated on itsaying that Shron Moore had beendetained by police in Michigan onWednesday and being turned over to a

[02:44] second area police department forinvestigation into potential charges.the charges. I'm going to try and put ita little bit more delicately, but he was

[02:53] caught in a cheating scandal. And remindyou, he's a married man. He was caughtin a cheating scandal. And after therewere leaks and after some of this more

[03:05] information started to come out, hethreatened to he threatened suicide andthen he went to the mistress in therelationship and threatened suicide with

[03:16] her present. and then threatened to doit to her himself. It was a really badsituation overall. Justin Spyro saidthat the University Mission is aware ofthe inappropriate exchanges now formercoach Shonmore allegedly had with

[03:28] multiple women on various social mediaplatforms. The exchanges generallyinvolve attempting to meet up with womenon dinner dates, sometimes under theguise of social visits during recruiting

[03:38] trips. So, there was one confirmedmistress who was mistress was on staffat Michigan, but apparently there were alot more that he was at least messagingwith. At least that is the allegedinformation right now. Uh, we have

[03:50] another addition here from Hoops atHoops with two S's says Shown Mooremarried with three kids just got exposedfor cheating, getting a staffer pregnanttwo weeks before Christmas. I mean,never a great time to do that, but right

[04:02] before Christmas, maybe one of the worsttimes to do that. That's bad enough, butnow add the ripple effect. fired asMichigan's head coach and fumbling $13million. So crazy story overall. Let'sgo to you, Mike, because I know you're

[04:13] heavily invested into college football.That's kind of your game. So I I don'teven know what to ask you here. Likejust your thoughts on this.>> Yeah, obviously disgusting. Is it as bad

[04:25] as what Connor Stallions did? I don'tknow if I can go that far. Um but on aserious note, it's it's really grosseverything that's been alleged here ifit's true. Um, and what wasn't mentioned

[04:36] there that I think is even moredisgusting to me is the fact thatNational Signing Day was just a littlebit ago. And there are reports comingout now that Michigan was aware of this

[04:47] information and intentionally waited tofire more until after signing day. So,they waited until these kids were signedup to go to their school. Uh, basicallylur them under the false trap of

[04:59] thinking that this guy was going to betheir head coach and then fired himafter. Again, these are just reports,but I I don't know. Whenever people talkabout kids getting paid and kids wantthis and, you know, the sense of

[05:11] entitlement, this is why you alwaysshould push back and realize that thesekids have been, you know, been taken fora ride for so long. And this is just thelatest example of, you know, the kids

[05:21] getting put second here in specialinterest for the school and university.>> Let's go over to you, Storm, first timetoday. your general thoughts oneverything going on here.

[05:32] >> Most interesting thing I've seen is thequestion,does this come out if Michigan beatsOhio State? And there were some very

[05:41] interesting points on both sides there.I I just to echo what Mike said, itseems like most people are saying this

[05:51] was a widely known secret, so to speak,in Ann Arbor. So again, just puttingthese college programs first, puttingthe kids second, it's all pretty

[06:02] disgusting, but not surprising at thesame time. Unfortunately,>> I have seen those reports as well thatlike I mean I saw initial leak of thisat the start of December, but there'sother people saying this has been known

[06:15] for like a very long time, like monthsand months and months. Uh China, yourthoughts and everything here? Yeah, Imean there's been reports on Twitter ofthis for two to three weeks. Um I'm

[06:27] actually pretty close with somebodywho's a pretty big industry insider andhe said he's been having conversationswith somebody about this for multipleweeks. And now it is an unfortunatesituation for all the kids like Mike

[06:39] said. It's unfortunate for his family.Uh, and you know, I keep hearing peoplesay like, how can somebody do this with,you know, he he has the world in hishands, but the bottom line is for

[06:50] anybody in any any industry, the moremoney you make and the more power youget, it's just more problems. Moremoney, more problems. And this it itdoesn't surprise me in the least. Um,people just can't help themselves when

[07:03] they get a certain amount of power. Theytake it to the extremes and um, youknow, they just they don't know whenenough's enough. And um clearly this guyhas some mental issues and hopefully hegets them fixed.

[07:15] >> Yeah. I I I think a lot of people I meanto me a lot of people labeling this likehow could somebody in this position dosomething like this? I mean for me it'slike this is bad no matter who you are.That just makes it even worse and it

[07:27] just exhausts that point even furtherwhen you're now getting Michigan and outon your contract when you you fumbled$13 million. As I said when you have afamily, you have three kids. Like it'sjust it's just remarkable that people

[07:40] act this way. Like you you don't youdon't need to resort to this sort oflifestyle. It's it's it's truly awful.Uh I go to you Mike um again becauselike how does Michigan react to this?

[07:51] Like does this cause any problems thatkind of spill over into the new seasonnext season?>> Well to Storm's point um you know it'skind of funny or it's pretty ironic that

[08:02] Michigan State fires their coach after alosing season for sexual misconduct.Baltimore seemed to wait until JustinTucker wasn't so good at kicking thosefield goals until he was sent back. And

[08:12] I it's really one of those situationswhere it seems to always come out atthis time. Um if you're Michigan, myguess is because they have known this,they've been making conversations behind

[08:23] the scenes and kind of canvasing whatthey could or could not get. Um I don'tknow where they're going to go fromhere. There's a lot of good jobsavailable. Um, but Michigan, we'll seeif that Larry Ellison money is real

[08:35] because they got to pay up here,especially this late in the cycle. Istill think that there's a decentchance. They also have fired theirathletic director. Um, so I think thatthere's a decent chance that they couldend up with uh, you know, try to, if you

[08:48] were a new athletic director coming in,you probably would try to make a bigsplash would be my guess.>> All right. So, lots to ponder there onthe Shrone Moore situation, but thisconversation leads to what shape could

[08:59] shape up to be a real alltime episode ofHit the Books. That is our collegefootball show we have here at the HammerBetting Network. And they're going to belive tonight at 5:00 p. p.m. Eastern, asthey are Mondays and Fridays, 5:00 p.m.

[09:10] They also give you Saturday halftimeshows as well. But with Joey Kenish, oneof the co-hosts, the co-host to BradPowers being a native of Detroit,Michigan, I'm sure there's going to be alot of thoughts to share there. So,

[09:22] that's not going to be an episode youwant to miss. Again, head to the link inthe description to see the link to theHit the Books channel and all the otherchannels we have in the Hammer Network.And don't miss out again 5:00 p. p.m.Eastern time tonight. Hit the books with

[09:35] Brad Powers and Joey Kesh. But we'lljump in now to our second topic on theshow today. And this is the biggeststory I think coming out of the NFL thisweek. It is Philip Rivers

[09:46] out of nowhere making a return to theNFL with the Indianapolis Colts. and healready has the third best odds to wincomeback player of the year. Verysimilar situation to a few years ago

[09:58] when Joe Flacco made a return and heended up winning the comeback player ofthe year award. People buying into thissort of narrative with Philip Rivers ina year where there I don't think there'sa real overwhelming case for comebackplayer of the year. Jeff Fineberg, our

[10:11] resident Chargers super fan here at theHammerbend Ner and a very big PhilipRivers fan showing his excitement tothis announcement here. and Tai Van SBon Twitter posting a line that maybe we

[10:24] wouldn't have thought it would haveexisted in 2025. It is Philip Riverspassing yards over under 152.5.And I I got to say it's pretty like if

[10:34] you told me five five years ago that atthis time we would have Sam Darnoldstarting against Philip Rivers in a reallike play like real battle of a gamewith playoff implications. I would have

[10:47] thought Philip Rivers is long retiredand I would have probably thought SamDarn would have been long out of the NFLat this point, but here we are. That isthe current status of things. Uh, thisis crazy. China, um, how do you react to

[11:00] news like this as somebody who followsthe NFL?>> Well, first off, this, you know, thisnews, it must have put GRP in a blenderbecause he's probably already got themarket cornered here. So, I I don't know

[11:11] how he's going to react to this. But,you know, typically as a Patriots fan,when I see something like this, I'd berooting for the guy to fall on his face.But, as an old guy myself, I'm pulling

[11:22] for him. Hope he does well. And, uh, butthese spots, you know, they typicallydon't end well. You can look at MagicJohnson, Michael Jordan. They came back.Nothing really happened there, but, you

[11:34] know, nobody's going to remember this in10 years. So, that's just kind of whereI'm at with that.>> Well, Joe Flacco came back and put upsome good performances. It wasn't likeit was certainly better than we thought.Do you think Rivers could have some sort

[11:47] of repeat of that?>> Yeah. I mean, I think it's possible thathe can. I mean, if they don't ask him todo too much, they got a good runninggame. So, I mean, it is possible theywin a few games here down the stretch,squeak a few out, and then maybe he is

[11:59] taking home that comeback player of theyear. So, it's possible.>> Uh, Storm, I'll go over to you. Uh, whatwas your reaction to this news?>> Oh, the group chats were going crazy onthis one. I I'm sure everybody who is

[12:12] sports betting had something to sayabout this. From a betting standpoint,shame on DraftKings for not offering ano on that comeback player of the yearmarket. Um maybe Kowi has it. I'm not

[12:25] sure. I would have to look.>> Right. Right now he's not listed at atthe time of recording. He's not listedfor comeback player of the year. Iimagine that will change very very soon.I I I'm not a ball knower enough for

[12:37] football to really look at this, but Ihave to imagine those are going to besome of the most heavily bet SGPs thisweek of any game all season because if

[12:47] he does start, there's going to be somewild angles with correlated anduncorrelated SGPs that people aredefinitely going to take advantage of.>> At the time of recording, I'll say thatas well because we record Thursday

[12:59] evening. This comes out Friday morning,8 a.m. Eastern. But at the time thatwe're recording, the latest news is thatit's trending towards Philip Riversstarting this week for the Colts. Weshall see. But Mike, over to you. I know

[13:10] you're not as invested in the NFL as youare NCAA, but what was your reaction?>> First of all, to Storm's point, this isa great spot where nothing is pricedright with these situations as far as

[13:23] it's just not something that they'veever priced before. They don't have45year-old quarterback comes back in has150 yard props uh distribution for that.So, these are good spots to betgenerally. Uh, the only thing I'll say

[13:35] as far as with college, the Navyquarterback this week has passing yardsover under of 110. So, we're not too faroff from the Navy quarterback for PhilipRivers. So, uh, I don't know. I think

[13:47] that he's going to look okay. I'm goingto go out on a lamb. I think he's notgoing to be I mean, he can't be muchworse than uh Riley Leonard. So, I thinkthat I we'll see if he gets the jobdone.>> Yeah. I mean, it's it's got to be a huge

[14:00] I mean, Cam Newton was on uh I think itmight not be on first, but Cam Newtoncalled it a slap in the face that PhilipRivers was considered before him, butit's got to be a real slap in the face

[14:10] for uh Riley Leonard and Brett Ripen whoare on the team and are getting o andgetting overlooked for Philip Riversinstead. I mean, that just shows thestate of the quarterback room that

[14:21] they'd rather trust Philip Rivers comingoff his couch years after retiring. But,uh that is the state of things here.kind of are is it that bad for the Coltsthat like is this the best option theyhave right now?

[14:33] >> I mean it it looks like it is. I meanBrett Ripen I would think would bebetter than Riley Leonard. I don't evenknow how how he hasn't beaten out RileyLeonard but you know Riley Leonardcouldn't hit a barn if it was 20 yards

[14:45] in front of him. So I mean this is uhpretty much you know they felt like theymake the move. They reached out and herewe are. So let's do it. Well, as sorry,back to you as something.>> Yeah, Riley Leonard is hurt for what

[14:57] it's worth. Um, so that was part of thereason. I don't know.>> That's why he maybe he's able to dress,but he is at least injured because uhfor as crappy of a thrower as he is, heis a decent athlete back there. I think

[15:09] if he was fully healthy, they'd at leasttry that before they went to the45-year-old. But so, it's really only aslap in the face to Brett Ripen.>> Yeah. [laughter] A real a real slap faceto him and and Cam Newton, of course,

[15:21] who uh thinks he should have beenconsidered. We can't forget that. But uhno market yet on KJI for Philip Riverscomeback player of the year. I thinkthat will exist very soon. Maybe even bythe time that this episode comes out.However, you can take this market on

[15:34] Kali. Will Philip Rivers play for anypro football team this season? It hasnow gone up to a 94% chance afterreports has started to come out thathe's trending towards being the starterfor the Colts this weekend. So you can

[15:47] get involved with this market and manyothers available in the predictionmarket space on Kali, our presentingsponsor here on the circles off channel.You can use a QR code on screen to signup now or head to the link indescription at any point while you're

[15:59] watching or listening to this episode.But we'll keep it moving on the show. Wehad Alfonso Strafen who showcased thispiece here with three seconds and thecoffee emoji because there's a story

[16:11] that's come out here that Crypto.com hasput up documentation on its websiteexplaining that customers will face a3-second delay when they place a wageron the outcome of sports games. And theyalso mentioned separately Khi another

[16:24] leading prediction market exchange hasrecently submitted documentation toregulars that would allow it to imposeits own delays on orders running throughthe exchange. Abnormally distributed atabnormally disc very prominent on

[16:36] gambling Twitter said this is whycourtsiders are bad people courtsideimplement delays to protect marketmakers delay gets bigger eventually getsabused to deny any bets they don't like

[16:48] from people they profile as winnerscongrats you created DK so I'll I'llhave to go over to Storm first of all onthis one Stormhow do you feel about this is is this

[16:59] the right approach for prediction marketto take on with courtside iding.>> I would say if you strictly limit it tolive betting, sure. But the problem

[17:09] here, and we had a little tiff in thethe circle back group chat discussing itwith Flop, he was shilling forexchanges. No surprise there. Um, but he

[17:22] he was unaware that if you read thelanguage here, it seems that they'regoing to apply this to all betting, notjust live betting. And then when herealized that, he said, "Oh, wow. That'sstupid." Then so

[17:34] everything that AD said is correct,right?If you give these market makers whichare mostly institutional and you knowyou let let's use Peanut for an example,

[17:46] right? Peanut does some market makingand he's good at it. But Peanut versus ateam of 150 guys at Paradigm or Susuanaor Jane Street that there's no match.

[17:59] And these guys that do high frequencybetting, they they're incredible, right?You could have a book that mispricessomething for 1.5 seconds and they'regoing to bet it somehow. So, if you

[18:11] start implementing a 3se secondond delayon these exchanges, nobody really standsa chance against these guys. And, youknow, I I'm I don't bet a ton onexchanges, but I was asking somequestions this week to to kind of

[18:24] understand how this would work. Andessentially my understanding is say youwanted to bet something at 50 cents,right? And you put in an order for xamount of shares at 50 cents. And let's

[18:36] say you had like injury news or you weretrying to bet as the market was movingand you know Sesuana has all theseorders open at 50 cents. And in thosethree seconds that you place your bet,

[18:48] they're receiving the same news that youget and they're pulling all theiroffers. you're getting moved down to thenext order like share of orders at 50cents and they're most likely going to

[18:57] be gone at that point. So, it's it'shorrible for the ecosystem if you applyit to pregame betting. I totallyunderstand why they do it for live

[19:08] betting. I will say that, you know, wehave done some, you know, cursoryresearch into, you know, betting live onthese prediction markets and theliquidity is not even really there for

[19:20] it to be as much of a problem as theseguys are all whining and crying onTwitter all the time about, oh, you haveto protect the market makers. It's I getthat they're doing it because they'resaying, oh, well, we're not offering the

[19:33] liquidity because we need protection.But it's kind of like a chicken or theegg argument. And it just it's just sobad because you know, as the tweet says,Crypto.com filed first. Cali did it

[19:46] next. I'm sure everybody else is goingto follow suit. And once you set theprecedent, there's no going back fromthere.>> All right. Uh China, do you see the samelevel of damage that Storm is laying outif this is implemented?

[19:58] >> Yeah, I mean AD hit the nail on thehead. And I mean, I I don't really havemuch to add to what Storm just saidthere. it just, you know, it's it'sgoing to really hurt the ecosystem. So,I don't know. It's just it's not a good

[20:10] thing. And like Storm said, once thesechanges are made, there's no going back.And if there is, it's going to beextremely difficult. But, you know,that's that's pretty much it.>> And how about you, Mike?>> Like Storm, I think the difference

[20:24] between live and pregame is pretty bighere. Uh live, I totally understand it.Pregame, uh, that's pretty tough andit's really going to have an impact. Uh,one thing I will say is all the peoplewho were talking about past posting and

[20:37] oh, it's different now and you guysdon't understand that's the oldparadigm. Uh, it's amazing how quickthat if you start losing money, thingschange. So, I always thought that thatwas going to change and they weren'tgoing to allow people to pass post for

[20:49] unlimited cash. Those things just don'texist. So, that was bound to happen uh,you know, pregame. I think that itreally could hurt things.>> All right. Well, we'll get into our nexttopic in just a second here. If you guysare enjoying the the show so far, please

[21:02] make sure you've hit the like button. Ifyou're new to the channel, we're livewith Circle Back Mondays at 1 p.m. Wehave this show Fridays at 8 a.m. We havebonus content every Wednesday at 100p.m. So, make sure you subscribe to thechannel. And if you see something or you

[21:15] hear something that you disagree with,you agree with, have a take on, put itin the comment section down below. Welike to feature comments on the show,which we'll be doing a little bit lateron today. But the next topic comes from

[21:26] a few different sources here. We hadKouchi, we had Unusual Wales and LeadingReport all tweet along with many otherstweet about Donald Trump apparentlyconsidering eliminating taxes on

[21:37] gambling profits. So on this Friday'sshow, we have featured it a lot wherethey're going to lower the thedeductions available on gambling losses

[21:48] from 100% to 90%. However, now we couldbe seeing where there's an eliminationof taxes on gambling profits. I'minterested to see how you guys react tothis because this is not news that

[22:00] affects me where I am. But uh let'sstart first of all with Mike on thisone. What was your reaction to seeingthis?>> So if you watch the video where he says,

[22:11] you know, no taxes or whatever, heclearly doesn't know what that there's atax on it. And this is a huge bill thathas a lot more implications thangambling taxes. So to everybody who

[22:23] says, "Oh, he's considering it." Basedon this outcome, it's someone aggregatedthat outcome and it's been aggregatedeverywhere. I don't think that he'sseriously considering it. To be honest,I don't think he knows attacks really

[22:34] exists. So I think that this isabsolutely nothing in people aggregatingand spreading news uh based on onefaulty headline. So I don't think it'smuch of a story, if anything.>> Okay. So you're expecting to see nochanges? Uh China, are you in agreement

[22:47] with that?>> Zero changes. I watched the videoexpecting to see see some type ofbombshell and like Mike said at the endof the video he he seemed completely

[22:57] unaware to like even how like what whatpeople were talking about as far as theelimination and he just said well maybeI'd consider it or something like that.But he says that about everything. So

[23:08] like it it's just a big nothing burger.They got to they got to fix the the BBBbefore we even or before you even startconsidering just completely eliminatinggambling taxes. I mean it

[23:19] >> Storm, do you feel the same way?>> Yeah, this is just massive copium fromsome people. Um, it it's it turned intolike clickbait from a two-c interviewand people just ran with it.

[23:32] >> It it sounded like when uh somebody'slike, "Hey, do you remember that thingthat happened?" And you just go, "Yeah,yeah, yeah." You know, and you actuallyhave no idea what they're talking about,but you just are trying to move theconversation on. That's exactly what it

[23:43] was.So, as I say many times in Canada there,you are not taxed on gambling profitsunless you file as a professional sportsbet in which case you are. Do you think

[23:54] like in the future that ever could beimplemented into the US as well? I'lllet anybody have that that if if theywant to take on that question.>> No. [laughter]>> Yeah.

[24:05] >> Any chance to um tax people is going tobe taken here. I don't ever see thathappening. So,>> and and like China said, you're we'reflipping the conversation from, you

[24:18] know, that that 90% to all of a suddengetting rid of it when those are twoabsolute extremes. I could only seethings getting worse, not better. Theway things stand right now,>> it's almost like they could just tax us

[24:29] as normal income the way it's been donebefore. If we could just stick withthat, that would make sense. It's likealmost like we had that for many, manyyears and then all of a sudden gotchanged.But if they feel like, like as Stormsaid, if they have the opportunity to

[24:42] tax, they're going to take thatopportunity. Is that not what they'rekind of doing here? They're taking theopportunity to uh lowering the the capon gambling uh gambling deductions to90%. Are they taking opportunity to tax

[24:55] here? Do you see them changing that?>> Yeah, but it's not static, right?Eventually then people will stop, youknow, nobody's going to say, "Okay,well, I just pay 10% more in taxes."It's a very simplistic method to think

[25:07] that people are just now going to deduct90% less are going to change the waythey act based on those taxes. So I Ithink it was a rush job in order to sella bill and I don't need to get into

[25:17] anything more about complaining aboutit. But I I don't think that this is anykind of you know relief for people inthe future here.>> All right, we'll send that'll send us

[25:29] into the comments from the previous weekshow reminder. As I said previously, ifyou want some in feature in next week'sshow, then maybe considering commentingsomething down below. And we'll startoff with uh John Vessics with the

[25:41] comment pure content gold for LeBron 10plus to be discussed today. So, as Isaid earlier, we record these showsThursday evening, which means we recordthem before the Thursday night slate of

[25:52] NBA games. That Thursday, as we werediscussing LeBron 10 plus points, thestreak, all of our thoughts associatedwith it, the streak ended later thatday. So, by the time the Circle Back

[26:04] episode came out on Friday, we had allof our thoughts ironed out there. Mystrong take on that show was that he isgoing to do so much to try and keep thisrecord going. And I said on the Monday

[26:16] show, but people spinning the narrativethat he gave up the last shot and Iguess the streak to get Ruby Hatchima agood shot from the corner to win thegame. LeBron went four of 17. Okay. He

[26:27] took plenty of shots. He was hunting the10 points the entire fourth quarter anddidn't quite get it. Uh Mr. P, can youremind me your stance on on this LeBron

[26:37] 10 plus thing from last week's show?>> I truly have no idea. I I already haveforgotten what it meant. I you couldtell me I said either way strongly and Iwould uh you know I probably was pro he

[26:49] was going to keep it going. I thinkLeBron does a lot to protect his legacy.Uh not even saying that in necessarily abad way. I think he cares about it alot. So my guess was I thought he wasgoing to try to protect it but uh youknow obviously forgot that 40-year-olds

[27:02] aren't quite as good at basketball asthey used to be.>> So he said after the game he didn't careabout the record because they won thegame. Uh the generational lie LeBron. Doyou think it was another case? You'resaying LeBron might have kind of

[27:14] stretched the truth in order to help hislegacy. I don't think that's possible.So, it must have been He must not havecared then. That's it.>> Uh, I would love to hear Storm or China,either of you. I guess we'll start with

[27:25] Storm on this one. Uh, did you care atall about this LeBron 10 plus pointstreak? Did you care about the gamblingTwitter aspect of it?>> I mean, it's always fun seeing like thethe freezing cold takes with tickets

[27:37] like that. I think I retweeted the guythat lost 50k. Yeah, you were the onewho found it for a group chat rightafter it happened.>> Yeah, he seemed to be a pretty goodsport about it. Um, I have no clue ifthe guy's a winner or loser orprofessional or what, but he definitely

[27:49] handled it well. Better than I wouldhave expected. Most people would crashout after something like that with thenegative attention that they get, but Ithink it was just like a fun thing, butall good uh bits need to come to an end,

[28:02] I guess. And we've closed the chapter onthat one.>> What do you think, China? Bad beat.LeBron not reaching 10 plus points.Certainly not a bad beat. We all knowthat. But I mean, something like this,it's just bound to happen. The guy's

[28:14] what? He's over 40 years old. He'scoming off an injury. It's just sooneror later, it's just not going to happen.So, like, I don't know. I I just thinkit's it's one of the dumbest bets. Ithink it's it was a bad it's a bad bet.

[28:26] Like it's just it's a bet that I wouldnever make just because, you know, I'm aguy who's betting unders and I know thechances of injury and a 40 plus year oldguy who's coming off an injury, I mean,

[28:38] it's just it was due to due to happensooner or later or even with a just abad game,>> right? So, we close a chapter on thatand that com we open up a new one here.

[28:48] We had Liteches 100 saying, "I like theplaying with playing chess with a pigeonanalogy that Mike you used last week."And it's it's made like pretty goodrounds, I'd say, on gambling Twitter. A

[28:59] lot of people really really really likedit. Um I'm pretty like I'm not not totake anything away from you. We had a wehad a good clip out of it, but I'veheard it before. It feels like peopleare kind of hearing it for the firsttime. What's your reaction to this all

[29:11] swirling around in the last week?>> Uh yeah, I definitely did not createthat quote. Uh, I don't want to act likeI did. I saw it a while back andobviously just lifted it there. So, Iwasn't trying to claim it as my

[29:23] brilliant analogy,>> but I uh I I I hope people can use thatin the future more often on gamut tourbecause I think it does work well and uhdoes work well for perhaps a lot ofpeople in the space. Final comment we

[29:35] have from Jeff O'Reilly 9651 says, "Ifyou can't correctly price thecorrelation, don't offer the bet. It isnot the better's fault because yoursoftware sucks. should be paid. Plainand simple. This is in reaction to the

[29:47] NOVIG scandal which we covered at thetop of last week's show where theyvoided bets sometimes even a couple aday or two after a SGP was settledbecause there was a clear error. Butadding on to the comment here, Jeff

[30:00] said, "Banning or limiting them becauseyour software can't handle a simple SGPshouldn't be the fault of the better whofound be better in trading and software.Classic free will." So, in the end, theydid pay out all the winners on these

[30:11] SGPs. I I I will confirm that to thestory, but uh we Mike, you wanted to addsomething here?>> Yeah, these guys, I'm telling you, theidea that it's a free roll is insane.These companies aren't going to free

[30:24] roll people for this small amount ofmoney. It's you can say, "Hey, they needto get better tech. Hey, they shouldhave been watching it." Those we candiscuss those. I think some of those arefair criticisms. They're not free

[30:35] rolling you guys for your $400 bets orwhatever. Like I think that people oftenthink these companies are free rollingthem when it's almost always just anerror.>> And I want to get the thoughts of Storm

[30:47] firstly Storm then China on this onebecause you guys weren't on the showlast week when we discussed this. But onthis Novik situation where theyinitially voided some winning bets afterit was already paid as a winner. Thenthey voided after and took the funds out

[30:59] of the account. In the end they decidedjust pay out all the winners on this. Doyou think that situation was handledeffectively, Storm? Yeah, I'm fine withthe outcome. Could have been handled a

[31:09] little quicker, but the it's a toughspot because I I'll read something thatI tweeted because a lot of people wereattacking Flop for [clears throat] thisand he had absolutely nothing to do with

[31:22] the pricing of those same game parlaysand nothing to do with the outcome andthe followup. But, you know, his himbeing a public figure and deciding totake that job, he you know, he knows the

[31:34] territory that that comes with. who saidattacking the one person who will mostlikely advocate for your side againsthis own employer is the epitome of mostbrain dead and entitled sports betterers

[31:43] or more aptly cost players. TheI I've always said and this this mostlyapplies to PPH but you can also apply itto other stuff especially when you're

[31:54] betting things that are mispriced orerrors.Winning bets is like 10% of sportsbetting. You know, getting paid is thebiggest part. You know, that's that's

[32:06] the other 90%. And you shouldn't have tosay, "Oh, well, it's no vague. Ishouldn't have to sweat getting paid."When you're betting something that, youknow, is mispriced, there's always goingto be some sort of sweat. There weretimes I haven't been paid by DraftKings

[32:18] or FanDuel in certain states because ofgaming rules on certain things. So, thereason I said more aptly cosplayers isbecause when you have people acting likethey're entitled to getting paid for

[32:30] betting mistakes, that's justridiculous. Like, you're you're green.You're a noob to sports betting. And youmake everybody else who does this for aprofession look bad by acting like that.

[32:41] And I I just I'm fine with the way itwas handled. Like I said, it just shouldhave been done quicker. And I totallyagree with what Mike said. Acting likethese companies were intentionally free

[32:51] rolling people is just such a braindeadad take. Like these guys do suchenormous amounts of business. You thinkthey're going to free roll you for thethese same game parlays that you made

[33:02] and just completely destroy theirbusiness's reputation. It it's just it'svery much me me liketype of thinking and not just thinkinglike a sports better logically, right?

[33:15] Okay, let me examine the situation, allthe facts, and use my brain. It's just Iwant to get paid from my bets now.>> And China, your thoughts on all of this?We didn't have you last week.>> Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I

[33:27] mean, you got to pay it out. It shouldhave been paid out faster for just fordamage control because it it alwayswinds up like this. Um the bottom lineis like um you know, if you can't offer

[33:39] it properly, don't offer it or fix ituntil you can offer it. Um, but at theend of the day, yeah, I mean, these guysweren't getting free rolled, but thebottom line is when you have

[33:50] loads of people that don't reallyunderstand or they just want to getpaid, they're going to put thatnarrative out there that it was a freeroll and then your business is going totake a hit. So, the bottom line issituation like this, if you're running a

[34:03] business, you need to fix it quicker andjust and and make the correct decisionthe first time.All right, we can move into the nexttopic on the show, which is onprediction markets, the impact of

[34:14] prediction markets on society. We hadAlex uh Kolit Kitic, hope I said thatright, says, "I'm about as capitalist asit gets, and I love prediction markets,but Koshi and Robin Hood making it easyfor people to gamble their life savings

[34:27] on sports betting is extremelydestructive, even dystopian. Hard to seehow this makes America better." Therewas a reply from at Moon Overlord whosaid, "Prediction markets equals sportsgambling repackaged. I don't know a

[34:40] single profitable sports gambler." Ipersonally do, but this person maybedoesn't. Every time I ask someone I knowthat's gambling on their phone, do youmake money? Are you profitable? They

[34:49] say, "No, I just do it for fun." Aka,I'm losing my ass. There was a very,very long quote tweet to this fromprobability God. And just to sum it upas quick as possible here, the they they

[35:02] say that prediction markets aren't justgambling. They turn private knowledgeinto accurate realtime insights byattaching financial incentives tooutcomes. Unlike crypto speculation,which often rewards belief over

[35:14] information, prediction markets use thebetting mechanism to actually revealvaluable data that benefits everyone. Sovery long post. I think I I think I

[35:26] summarized it a bit more eloquently thanit was worded in this original tweet, ifI say so myself. Feel free to disagree,but uh Storm, I wanted to go to youfirst on this one. What was your

[35:37] reaction to this long long post?I'm curious um what goes on at all theseprediction market companies giving outthese badges to people to tweet stuff

[35:47] like this because it it seems at thispoint to be a coordinated effort to pushthis narrative that you know predictionmarkets is not gambling and you know we

[35:59] I think it's pretty clear where we allstand on that. I think it's pretty clearwhere anybody who bets on sports standson that. We don't really need to getinto that. I'm more curious,

[36:09] why does this keep happening? Why do allthese accounts with badges for theseprediction market companies, a lot ofwhich aren't even in the United States,if you click into those new profilefeatures and see where they're, you

[36:22] know, posting from? Why does this keephappening?Who's in charge at these companies thatthinks that this is a good look or agood idea? because it it's just wildlyirresponsible for these companies with

[36:34] multi-billion dollar valuations to havepeople putting stuff out there likethis. It it's like flaunting in the faceof like responsible gaming, which isanother thing that, you know, the these

[36:45] prediction markets are skirting around.And it just seems like a a giant, youknow, f off to to regulators and andother people, not to like get super intoit, but somebody like Alex Kane who

[36:57] tried to play by the rules and do thingsright. And then you have these companiescoming in saying, "Oh, this isn'tgambling." And, you know, tweeting allthis ridiculous stuff and basically justlike two middle fingers up in the air.

[37:09] Nobody cares. So, why doesn't anybodyhave to answer for this kind of stuff?It's kind of wild.Uh, anything to add from you, Mike, onthis topic?>> Uh, walks like a duck, quacks like aduck, it's probably a duck. Uh, if you

[37:22] are, you know, spending a lot of moneyon sports, predicting the outcome,you're probably betting on sports. Ithink that potentially there is sometruth to prediction markets, predictivevalue in the future and what it could be

[37:34] uh down the road and people are tryingto act like that is now. Just becausethere could be that in the futuredoesn't mean that's what it's being usedfor currently. uh and the stuff where

[37:44] it's in Robin Hood is uh it's veryupsetting. I think that to have yoursavings next to a sporting event thatyou can bet on is not good for thelong-term future of the country.

[37:56] >> So the the first the first sentence uhfrom this tweet says first you have tobe extremely shortsighted naive to thinkprediction markets are just repackagedonline gambling. Now, as far as like thevaluable information, I I do think there

[38:08] is valuable information that comes outof it. Like when I'm following electionsnow, I'd rather look at a Koshi screenand show the odds there. I think I thinkthat's like the most accurate up-to-dateway of tracking maybe who's going to win

[38:20] like an election that's currently takingplace. But there's obviously a lot ofnuance to this discussion. China, whatwere your thoughts on it? Yeah, I kindof echo what both what both of these

[38:31] guys said and um you know, like Mikesaid, if it walks like a duck and talkslike a duck and quacks like a duck, youknow, whatever. I mean, the bottom lineis it's not good for the future of the

[38:42] country, I would agree. All sports,gambling, prediction markets, whicheverway you want to frame it, the bottomline is people need to practiceself-control. delete the app if theyneed to or if they can't handle it

[38:54] because um you know no matter whatyou're doing if you people are addictedtheir to their phones they're gonnaclick the buttons they're gonna go ontilt and this is speaking from a guy who

[39:04] I put out a tweet last week I had somesomebody you know take 200k and justblow it and then I don't get paid sothere you go>> you want to add something Mike

[39:16] >> uh just in regards to like the electionsI I will say that those have also havebeen on betting markets for a decentamount of time. So, I agree with youthat they are a very useful tool, but Idon't know if that's necessarily I mean,

[39:28] the funny thing about the predictionmarket uh kind of dialogue is that it'sviewed at as as this different thingfrom sports betting and oh, we'll showyou the power of markets. It's likegambling is actually built when you knowwhat's going on. It's actually built

[39:40] around the power of markets and that'swhy everything's so efficient. So tolike have it be lectured as uh beingshowing the gambling world what marketscan do and how they're different whenactually you know we're the people in

[39:52] there making the markets.>> Somehow the narrative shifted at somepoint like you sites like predict itwere around forever that were strictlypolitics predicting or gambling whateveryou want to call it. and they were

[40:05] forced to shut down. And you have theseother exchanges that, you know, latchedon to this idea of politics predictingand then just attach sports betting toit and use that as like their foot in

[40:16] the door. So, it's not it wasn't somerevolutionary idea. It was basicallyused as a gateway to offer sportsbetting.>> And I think the the recent, you know, Ithink it was 60 Minutes where they had

[40:28] Domer on and, you know, he obviously isone of the pioneers of the predictionmarket game. he deserves to be on there.But I I don't think it was unintentionalthat they made sure to have someone on

[40:38] who does not deal with sports um and isnot is talking less about his modelingand more about, you know, projectingthings. I think that it was veryintentional and I think that that issomething that is, you know, been a

[40:50] message from day one.>> So, some interesting takes there. If youhave anything to add in the commentsection down below, please do so. Youcan also do it in the Discord that wehave here at the Herbag Network. I'msure you know we have it, but let me

[41:02] tell you more about it before we go toour next topic. We know the Hammer istruly like a family. Familiar faces,inside jokes, and the one person thateveryone likes picking on. Well, here'syour chance to continue theconversation. Join our new Hammer

[41:15] Discord. A chance for us to discuss allthe games and news, share our favoritebets, and interact with your favoriteHammer creators. discord.gg/hammerto join now or visit a link in thedescription. The last main topic on the

[41:27] show comes once again from theprediction market space. We had DustDustin Guer Galer. Don't know how to sayit, but he tweeted Poly Market currentlysays Antonio Brown is the favorite to

[41:39] become the next coach of the New YorkGiants. It shows a Antonio Brown havinga 39.6% chance. Bill Bichc at 34.1. SoAntonio Brown listed as the favorite. I

[41:51] will add though volume obviously a bitlower here but still $35,310.Now we know the lack of there was ahigher amount of volume here. It's very

[42:01] very likely Antonio Brown would not bethe favorite but um Mike I there stillhas to be like a significant wager onthis for him to be listed as thefavorite here. No.

[42:11] >> So so that volume is all at 99 and 1%.So it's not real volume in the market.So these sometimes like it's even moreobscure than what people think when theyshow, oh this is a total volume listed.

[42:24] A lot of the volume is just toxic volumethat nobody is going to bet anywaysbecause they don't want to deal with it.Um so yeah, I Gawker knows that he isobviously taking this in bad faith. I

[42:35] that's a big shock to me.>> I'll just defend him and say he hereferenced in the replies that like hedoesn't actually believe he's thefavorite. It's just>> Yeah, I think he he kind of mocks the

[42:47] idea of predict predicting the future,which I don't necessarily disagree with,but you got to do it in good faith. Ithink he knows exactly what he's doing.This is one of those things. It getsreally weird when there's zero liquidity

[42:58] where it makes up probabilities. You cansay, "Hey, that's a problem." I believethat prediction markets think that therewill be enough liquidity eventually thatit won't be that big of an issue. So Ihe's just this is one of those thingsthat kind of pops up weird but as soon

[43:11] as you look into it you're like oh thatkind of makes sense.>> And pre-showstorm you're interested inthis topic. Uh what did you want to add?I think uh somebody at these exchanges

[43:22] did their research on the Dave Masoneffect, which is hang a ridiculousmarket, you know, take pennies inexposure like Mike said, because theseare the 99 cent onecent markets and

[43:34] bang, you have a viral tweet, you've,you know, drawn a bunch of attention tosomething where unless you look into thegranular details, it it's just like, oh,everybody's going to talk about this now

[43:44] and it's just going to go viral superquick. Seems likeseems like good free marketing to topost these you just post these marketspeople bet into them then you can

[43:55] showcase a screenshot like this. Um I'vevoiced how my displeasure with peopleusing betting odds to fuel headlines inthe past but over to you China this one.What do you think Antonio Brown next New

[44:06] York Giants said coach?>> Yeah I mean it's ju just like Storm saidthis is the Dave Mason playbook righthere. Put it out there. Get a headline.draw some interest and like, you know,normally you'd say, "Yeah, I'm just

[44:19] going to take the no." But like, no prois going to bet the no on this becausewhy are you going to tie up money forwhatever amount of weeks when you'rejust getting nothing back in return? So,yeah, that's pretty much it.

[44:31] >> Kernods have it as Bellich at 18%, youcan buy yes at 34 or buy no at 99.2. So,you know, 18% is a ridiculous projectionbased on that information. It needs to

[44:42] they probably need to rewe it somehowand deal with it that way, but it it'snot something that, you know, anyone assoon as you look at it, nobody would besurprised that these probabilities are alittle bit funky.>> I should have dug into it a bit more,

[44:54] but I uh I should have dug into anyheadlines from news outlets that AntonioBrown is the favorite to become nextGiants head coach. You know what?There's there's a lot of news outletsout there who don't understand sportsbetting enough to take this maybe maybe

[45:06] not something as like egregious as this,but they'll take stuff like thisseriously. So again, if you understandit, you'll know that it's it's not it'snot entirely true. But we'll move intothe chopping block, which is the segment

[45:18] of the show where we have stuff that wedidn't think required full scalesegments. We still wanted to covernonetheless. Before we get there, ifyou're enjoying the show so far, gettingvalue out of it, then take a second tohit the like button and considersubscribing to the channel for more

[45:30] content just like this. The first thingthat we have on on the chopping blockfor today comes first of all from GregErin Aaronburgg who said, "Am I off baseor are people gradually getting moreinsane on the internet?" When I first

[45:43] got on Twitter, there were some crazypeople, but it was a mix of groupssimilar to what you see in a high schoolcafeteria. Now, it's mostly insanepeople who don't exist off the internet.Uh Matt Zilbert replied and said,"I

[45:56] think it's primarily people with zeroreal life/nothing going for them are theones that have gone off the deep end.Literal anonymous people that arefailures that will attack us successful

[46:07] people without any cause at all there astheir form of entertainment. This istheir Super Bowl."Uh I'll hold back and I'll let Mike gohere. Mike, when I interviewed you at uh

[46:19] Bet Bash, you said the funniest thingyou ever seen in sports betting was MattZilbert. Plain and simple. Uhthe

[46:28] Is this He has to know what he's doingwith with a tweet like this. Surely youtrying to talks about Jordan'sundisputed goat. You can't even putLeBron in the same category. That's howI feel reading Matt Zilbert tweets.

[46:42] There's really no one who compares tothis guy and everything he does for thecommunity. I the only person that cancompare to Zilbert on Twitter is Zilbertthe overunder better. So everythingabout him I'm a fan of and I just got to

[46:54] say bravo here.>> What do you think China?>> Yeah, I mean I I completely agree. Imean um people are getting absolutely

[47:06] bananas across all social media. I mean,it's just the more crazy you can get,the more clicks you can get, the biggeryour following gets, and thenpotentially you break through. Everybody

[47:17] has a a path to get famous, and peopleare just getting crazy, crazier, andcrazier.>> I think on the initial tweet from Greg,uh, people getting graded more in theinternet. I think gradually over time,

[47:29] we're now getting fed more and morecontent that we haven't specificallysubscribed to. So nowadays, there'sthere's more for you pages than ever.there's more algorithm based content

[47:39] ever where like even 10 years ago socialmedia was purely the accounts that I'mfollowing. What are they retweeting?That's all I'm going to get. Now you'reserved up a lot more additional content.Maybe you're seeing a lot more tastesthat are contrary to yours more often

[47:52] because you're not following thesepeople. Um over to you Storm on thisone. Any thoughts at all?>> What this is like the pot beating thekettle over the head and calling it

[48:04] black. Um, just amazing stuff fromZilbert as always as far as the initialtweet. Um,monetizing Twitter was a massive mistake

[48:15] because it goes back to a lot of theother topics we cover on this show,right? Because it is going over posts onsocial media. People will do anything togo viral or get engagement at thispoint. So, I no, it's not surprising to

[48:28] me. And I don't think Greg is off baseat all. I I will I will have to side abit with Mike in the sense that likenobody does it like Zil because like thethe the level of people he is able to

[48:39] rile up and and granted, you know, he'she he's never met a shot he doesn'tlike. He he's going to take a lot ofshots. He's going to go, you know, 1%from the field, but my god, when he gets

[48:51] that one, it it's a fullcourt [ __ ]heave. And>> sounds like that's his strategy off theTwitter streets as well. Yeah, you know,maybe betting wise it's that as well.>> I hate to gas him up, but you for those

[49:03] who don't know, we have a list of topicswe go over before we do the shows everyweek. And I would say Zilbert Lens onthere more often than not. He's uh he'sjust the goat at tweeting.

[49:14] >> What I want to know is is the guy thatmade the initial tweet, is he documentedor not?>> We'll have to investigate.>> Yeah, I want to find out what hisdocumented record is. We we need thetweet probably the initial tweet

[49:27] probably should have had his documentedrecord at the bottom just so people likeus are are aware of it. We have to know>> absolutely. Uh but I would say on Stormsusually it ends up on the list and it

[49:39] very often does not make it onto theshow as well. In fact, there was anotherone that didn't make it onto the showonto the show today and got a resoundingdenial from from the crew. But anyways,that one did manage to slip through on

[49:51] this one and perhaps rightfully so. Thenext one comes from Tom Carroll at yourboy TC Fresh who posted a quote fromMike Vrael, New England Patriots headcoach. He was asked, "The people in LasVegas have you guys as underdogs? This

[50:04] is their game coming up against theBuffalo Bills." He Vel said, "Who arethe people, Ben?" And he said, "I guessthe oddsmakers." There you go. That'swhat they are. They're calledoddsmakers, not people. There's a lot of

[50:16] people in Las Vegas, only a few of themthat they trust to set the line. I don'treally know exactlywhat he's what the point he's trying tomake here. He's saying there's only afew people that people would trust to

[50:29] make the line. First of all, it's like ahuge pet peeve of mine to say that likeVegas has you as this when there is likeso much gambling operation that goesbeyond just Las Vegas. But anyways, not

[50:40] important to this conversation here. Heacknowledges that there are people inthe position for a reason to set thelines here and and we as sportsbetterers know that these lines areshaped primarily by sports bers

[50:51] themselves not exactly the odds makersbut still ummaybe this point gets a little bitexhausted but what's your reaction toseeing something like this China? Yeah,

[51:03] I mean it's uh that first of all, theguy that asked him this question is theultimate troll reporter, so he wastrying to troll him into something here.But>> of course,

[51:13] >> the bottom line is Vrabel did say thatpriors don't matter, which is completelywrong. Um he's very aware of thespreads. He was talking about survivor

[51:23] pools getting blown up, etc. And uhanother fact about about Rabel andgambling is after a lot of Patriotswins, he goes down to the Win Casino uh

[51:34] plays poker and he smashes back someJack and Coke. So yeah, he's um wellaware of what's going on within thegambling sphere.>> Well, you say that, but I I didn'tactually read this last sentence. He

[51:44] says, uh, you see every week that oddsand records really don't mean anythingwhere I you would definitely make theyou would def you could say was almoststatistical fact that the closing line

[51:56] in the NFL is so extraordinarilyefficient that in fact matters a lot.Uh, what do you say on what do you sayon this one, Mike?>> Yes, it matters in the fact that it'sgood for predicting, but to those guys

[52:07] in the locker room, it doesn't matter. Ithink that he's kind of doing what heshould as a coach and they all thesethings are controllable to them. Youknow, coaches are going to act likeeverything's controllable even if it's

[52:19] not because it's in their best interestto act like everything is controllable.That way you focus you do do well on thethings you can control. So this I justthink is something where it's hisincentives are misaligned with what ours

[52:31] are. Ours are to find the trueprobability of it and his are to havethat probability go towards New Englandand not towards the other teams. So, Idon't have a problem with him. Honestly,if he wanted to bash Vegas up and down

[52:42] and say lines suck and his team actuallyshould be favored or anything like that,I think that that's all fair game forhim.>> Anything to add on this one, sir, beforewe go to the last topic?

[52:54] >> Just like a funny call back to the daysof reporters before we had all theselegal sites saying uh that the people inLas Vegas and they would quote bvada.lv,which was actually Latvia, but theywould always say the guys in Las Vegas.

[53:07] That made me think of that.>> Uh, last one on the show today comesfrom primarily last men standing atlastenpod about survivors and originallyand then we also had a tweet from Joey

[53:19] Kesh feature because Joey Kesh wasparading that he won his 20 personsurvivor pool in his office with aperfect perfect survivor contest entrygoing into week 14. He had two strikes

[53:30] for his pool but used zero. But he saidhe didn't enter Circus Survivor becausecucks like Flopup were doing 300entries. Obviously exaggerating. Sobasically, Flop cost me $15 million

[53:42] because Flop is one of the people stilluh still alive in the current state ofthe Circus Survivor contest. So anyways,that was a little bit of a backstory.Here's the content that I wanted to getinto. In the last two hours, it's fromLast Men Pod. Owners of the following

[53:55] entries have openly announced theircircus survivor entries. 10 people leftfighting for 18.7 million. And we hadthe reveal of certain people giving outtheir picks earlier than they need to

[54:06] do. And obviously because I'm an idiot,the first thing I saw I thought was whywould they be giving away thisinformation ahead of time? But obviouslyafter a few seconds of thinking,

[54:17] this could be maybe a lot of mind gamestaking place. Storm, what do you thinkabout it? Do you think this is reallyinteresting game theory? Because that'swhat I'm thinking.

[54:26] >> Yeah, I I asked Blup. I was curious whoput their picks. Well, we'll say theirpicks, but you don't really know. Youhave to pick take people at face value.

[54:38] It's super interesting at this point.They're playing for a lot of money. Idon't care who you are. I don't care ifyou're as rich as flop. It's still a lotof money that they're playing for. So,the the game theory aspect of this is

[54:49] super interesting at this point. Um, youknow, for the people that like theirinitial I had the same initial take asyou. I was like, why would they do this?And then I I I actually asked somebodywho's also super prominent in survivor

[55:02] pools and he explained, you know, you'reyou're basically trying to discourageother people from taking the same thingas you at this point. You want to be onan island if you're trying to basicallywin and not chop, which should be the

[55:13] goal for most people at this point. Soit is super interesting. I it it seemsat this point so far to be working outfor Flop and nobody runs as good as thatguy, but I don't want to gas him up too

[55:26] much. So, we'll give the uh credit tohis partners here and we'll just callhim the money guy in this situation.>> And we'll go over to you, Mike, on thisone. Uh you said you don't really knowwhat's going on with Survivor, but can

[55:38] you appreciate the game theory aspect ofthis?>> So, what I really want to focus on isnot the game theory aspect of this isJoey Kesh coming out just the coward heis. Oh, I got talked out of this. He

[55:50] cost me so much money. Maybe he shouldget a lesson from Frabel and learn tokind of man up, take responsibility forhis own actions, to have the stones toenter the contest if you think you'regoing to win. You come out 14, you know

[56:02] that that record means it means nothing.It counts for zero dollars or whateveroffice pool money he won instead of thecircus survivor. So maybe the gametheory of really manning up and having

[56:14] uh conviction with your picks, I thinkJoey Kesh loses. So that's what I thinkis most important from this. So whenFlip had to leave the show, we lost ourour one resident one-time contest winnerwho gave the show some credibility. But

[56:26] maybe we have our one-time contestwinner back because Joey Kesh now theone-time contest winner with his officepool. Uh China, last word from you onthis one for the show. Uh you haveanything to add here?

[56:38] >> Not much to add. Um but you know, I justwant to congratulate Kenesh and justtell him um don't spend all that moneyin one place. Just make sure you spreadit all around and get good use out ofit. So

[56:49] >> maybe maybe he's buying a round ofdrinks for everyone at the office at theoffice pool tonight or at the retirementparty that he is attending tonight. Butthat would be nothing like Joey Kenishto be spreading the wealth. So Isincerely doubt that. But that is it for

[57:02] today's show. Thank you so mucheverybody for tuning in. If you didenjoy, as a reminder, hit that likebutton. Makes a huge difference to usfor the YouTube algorithm. If you'relistening to audio form, take a secondto rate and review five stars. You cansubscribe or follow for more content

[57:15] just like this. And as always, we willsee you again next time.