00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. 

00:50
Circle Back right here on the Circus Live channel. Part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented, as always, by Underdog, this is the show where we cover the latest and greatest from the week that was on Gambling Twitter. As we learned from the Tuesday rendition of Circle Back, gambling Twitter these days goes pretty far beyond just gambling. We'll learn a little bit more about that as we get into the meat of today's episode. With the A-Team Up in the top right corner, next to me is Jeff Nadeau. Underneath me we have Flup no Lied, chris Dierkis. In the bottom right we have Joey Kanish Nadeau back on it on the show this week. How do you feel missing out on the? 

01:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
content from last week. Well, it's never good that I'm not here with the a team, but, as I think you all can see, we got a pretty good line. This has the potential to be a real good show, so happy to be back absolutely loaded script today uh, ready to go. 

01:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And uh, good, good to have. Uh, all the regulars back before. Pour one out for isaac uh, you know it filled in last week and then me and fluff having to go. Uh, two weeks ago, we and fluff having to go. Uh, you know the fill it in for last week. So, hey, ready to go today he missed his opportunity. 

01:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Last week we had a spot for him, but he he missed out. Who knows what could have happened. 

02:01 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I heard jason bailed too. He really, you know, we were like really, hey, jason, come on in, we want you. And he said no, no, no, he was, it was too hot for him. 

02:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So hey, let us know in the comments if you want jason to appear next time we ever have an absence on this show. But let's dive into things that you can see from the bottom of the screen if you're watching. We have quite a loaded episode, as nadu said. The first topic here getting limited. How do people actually get limited? Well, it all started with this conversation from the real Mr ACL who said $4.16 max limits. Honest question DK Sportsbook why even bother putting this up? It's a screenshot of DraftKings where it's Kenny Pickett QB to take the first snap for the Cleveland Browns regular season week one of the next season. And, yes, limited to $4.16 at plus 120 odds. 

02:50
And Gino underscore bet openly. Ginobetopenlycom says this is how they treat those that win, but the NJ betting guru had a different mindset on how they treat winners because he says not true, I'm up over $500,000 on them, $250,000 this year alone so far. It's not about people who win. It's about people who repeatedly find edges or quote-unquote trader errors, rather than just picking the games or parlays straight up and winning. And the reply to that is from Jeffrey Benson. Jeff Benson of Circa who says LOL, hashtag, circle back and we'll go to you first here. Flop, you're laughing in the background here. You like this one you really wanted to talk about this. Is DeAndre Bettinger right about how they limit people? 

03:40 - Flup (Co-host)
Yes and no. Technically yes, if you aren't getting errors and you're not getting CLV and you're just betting straights, you can survive a lot longer. That being said, he is not doing that and he admits later on that he's down overall. He refuses to post his overall results on DraftKings, which I find hilarious. Find hilarious. Somehow he says it in that one tweet that he's up, but then in a later tweet, he refused to show it because it doesn't count for some random reason. I didn't make any sense was? 

04:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
was it like a covid season, maybe with there's no fans? 

04:15 - Flup (Co-host)
that's, that's a deal uh method, just just throw one season out. For no, for no reason finish, you know what's this. 

04:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I I feel like I've been talking about this story all day, but you know, we really I'm going to say you got him on the first point there. I mean technically, you know what, like yes, if you're not finding you know edges or trade or airs, could you probably go on, you're not wrong. 

04:42
I'm not wrong. But I'd love to you know if I could get pay 100 to see this guy's actual you know up or down, you know net on his DraftKings account. That that'd be great. So, yeah, I it's. It's a little bit of a rough one. I will say the ACL guy I'm not going to let this jab go Total, total like a fraud scammer there has had me blocked for a decade. Uh, when I used to back in the wind, pazola was calling out the philly godfather. Uh, I was calling out you know this guy occasionally, uh, that he's been around a long time, that guy, yeah, so at least, a decade still making a living drumming it. 

05:19
But yeah, uh, let's just say I don't think um the nj betting gurus account. Uh, you know, maybe that that's maybe one of those VIP accounts that people occasionally look for. 

05:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, it's just one of those things where people don't recognize like what's actually a big tell on themselves scenario. And this is absolutely one of those scenarios. And if you're going to talk big, like you've got, you're up over five hundred thousand dollars on them, two hundred fifty this year alone. You better have some screenshots to back it up and don't go hide when you're unable to do so. 

05:50 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
This is right out of his playbook, though he's done this type of rhetoric for as long as I've known him. I mean I've known of him. He's one of the cringiest people in this community. Everything is a constant sell job about how he's the greatest. It always goes back to selling his service and I mean he's, of course, the greatest ufc better in the world like they. They always. There's like 5 000 of them. Can I should it's all right. 

06:18 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's always the ufc guys as we say that uh, you know what? 

06:21 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
if you got uf, ufc capper and bio, then run far away Sports handicapper, UFC champ is in the bio there. 

06:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
There you go. 

06:30 - Flup (Co-host)
Yeah, do your former champ, if you have capper and bio, what are the odds that you're winning better? It's got to be approaching 0%. It's pretty sad, but there was another. If we go back to the first screenshot of it, I think there's a big disconnect and it's sad that the ACL guy has been around for almost a decade and doesn't understand this. But the trading team at a lot of these sportsbooks do not always communicate with every other department. I've had DraftKings. My personal DraftKings account is limited and I've gotten plenty of offers that I couldn't even use because I'm limited, because they just don't communicate with each other. So other users can probably bet thousands on this prop, but he can't because he's in a limited account. So it's not like draft kings doesn't want to take any action on it, they just don't want to take action from him. Should they have a better system in place? Absolutely, could it be massively improved? 

07:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
definitely, but there's no malintent here so I will say, in terms of ufc betters, I do like narco cop. He's an all right guy, always had a decent. 

07:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Uh, you know, back of order them on the topic of getting limited, uh, like you said, flip clv is an indicator of likely a winning better. Therefore, they're more lucky to get limited. People do smash trader eras are definitely going to be profiled and close to being limited. But like what goes into actually getting limited? Like what is it? What would people do to avoid getting getting limited? Can you be a winning better and avoid getting limited at an ultra soft book like DraftKings? 

08:05 - Flup (Co-host)
No, you cannot. I've never had well on my personal accounts. I've never been able to last long at all. The longest accounts I've ever had was my Caesars, which lasted six months, but I wasn't even betting that big at that time and they've been limited. To last forever and make a sizable amount of money without getting limited is an impossibility. Can you make more than most other people before getting limited? Yes, and that's part of the skill and the art. I've talked about this to give a shout out to myself, I guess on the Circles Off channel I did talk about some techniques. You could watch that one. But I think the biggest thing you could do is remember how you are perceived, exhibit behaviors of gambling problems and you'll last a lot longer. So how you size bets, how you deposit, the frequency of what you deposit, those all matter and that could really help with making your accounts last a lot longer, but you'll never last forever. It's impossible. 

09:11 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
One other funny thing with betting guru. He's also one of these guys and there's a very special few that do it. They think it's like a flex and they think it's going to help them in terms of selling stuff. He always makes it clear that he vip hosts and all these different knows and stuff and he doesn't realize that it's like there's only certain people that have those for a reason it's just funny when people tell themselves like this and just don't understand enough about betting. 

09:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But these are people that actually sell picks and it's a wonder why people buy them. But hey, maybe we can educate some people to not buy picks from people like this, so hopefully doing a service here. Before we go to the next topic, though we're representing sponsor Underdog. We're talking about Underdog Fantasy because they're basically giving away wins this weekend. New users who sign up with promo code CIRCLES get up to $1,000 in bonus credits plus a gimme pick to kick things off. And these gimme picks they look like straight up freebies. For friday it's gonna be nicola jokic higher than half a point. That's it arguably the best player in the world just to score one point. You're not gonna be sweating that one. The platform simple pick a few player, stats, go higher or lower and you're in entries. Take less than a minute and you can win real cash off just a handful of picks. A bunch of our viewers and listeners have been firing on Underdog lately, and with these gimme picks lined up, now's the perfect time to join them. Hit the link in the description, use promo code CIRCLES and get your Saturday night off on the right foot with a freebie win. Next up we have the bettors life cycle and selling picks in general. 

10:40
This conversation came up in a few different ways over the course of the last few days, notably from our very own lose. All accounts start shilling, discord and or OJ Pyramid Scheme, subs can't win. Everything dries up back to poor. And then three. There was a lot more than three, but the three top replies to this tweet are from China. Frank Rambo and MWG said you forgot fight in Twitter boxing matches. Frank Rambo says you left out taking a boxing. And MWG said you forgot fight in Twitter boxing matches. Frank Rambo says you left out taking a boxing. And NWG says forgot about boxing grifters in Vegas. But Chyna also had more to say on the selling picks conversation and had this to say Chyna Maniac, who's a sharp bettor who has appeared on Circles Off previously as well, says just a reminder the reason why people started Discord is because they can't win at betting in 99.9% of cases. 

11:45
I saw some guy on Tommy G's YouTube channel last night who said he had a 400% ROI betting lifetime and he charges for a Discord. Today I found out we have a guy who charges for a Discord but can't afford to pay out a 25K prop bet, which I don't know. We might talk about that a little bit later. Winners bet, losers sell. You started this conversation off Knanish with the life side of a sports player. Why don't you elaborate a little bit more on what you meant here? 

12:10 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Well, I mean, you see this now all over Twitter for the better part of the last few years is you've got so many we'll call them top-down softwares. Now that people they start in odds, they say, oh my God, the glitz and the glam. They start in odds, they create an odds jam subscription. One of those two something that's there Start arbing First month you're like I'm going to be rich, I don't know why I'm working. 

12:36
What am I even going to the 9 to 5 for? I don't know why I need a job. This is the greatest thing ever. Make some people. You might make 10k, you know. You might be a little more aggressive. You have people with like 100k, but quickly you learn, or maybe not even learn. 

12:51
It just happens that all of a sudden the soft books start limiting you. Then you're restricted to a couple of books there. Then, all of a sudden, the only books that you can get a decent bet down on are maybe the sharper books, that where you can't really get a good position. And then it's like well, what am I gonna do now? I'll sell this, you know I I even information that I have which is really just, you know, stale lines on soft books to other people. Those people then don't realize in their discord that you're selling you know nothing. And then it's like where am I at? 

13:25
So to me, like this is uh why I I would almost, you know, advise nobody in my life to go be a pro better. Uh, you know, starting here at in, you know, even though you know flops, uh going for, you know he's having his uh. You know mad rounders moment. He's going for the gold here. Uh, that all of a sudden like it's just so hard. Unless you're what I would call, uh, an extremely talented originator or mover that can get a lot of these, like you're, you're gonna have a finite number of accounts and once they run dry, you kind of, the gig is up. So I don't begr regard anybody, for you know, making a little side cash, doing what you can do, but that it's not a uh, it's not a long-term strategy for most people, even though most of those people probably don't realize it until it's happening to them it's just tough in the early stage. 

14:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think that's the first barrier. Like the well, the first barrier is actually becoming a winning better. But the second barrier of betting success is actually keeping those accounts open I'll relate this topic to to content. 

14:28 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Doing content for a living right or leaving a job to do content. Okay, a lot of people will go viral on a tiktok or a tweet or some video on youtube and they'll think, okay, maybe I can do this and maybe I can be the, the guy that makes money, you know, off content. And then you realize you got to do that consistently and you're at the mercy of algorithms at the end of the day, right, things catch up just like you would in sports betting. So, yeah, it's hard to do something consistently. If it was this easy, everybody would do it. That tweet by Joey Kanish I don't give you a lot of credit. One of your better tweets. 

15:04 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That you've had. I'm producing the content for the show and commenting the content. I got three of you on my back here. 

15:14 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
You also did forget one thing Some of them will quit their jobs as well, their regular jobs. 

15:23 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, there was a few certain people I had specifically in mind when I was tweeting that. 

15:29 - Flup (Co-host)
I thought this was hilarious. This is one of your better tweets. I definitely laughed at this one, but I think you did miss something here. I think everyone wants something different. I've kind of realized this over the years. Some people are totally fine grinding in out unlimited accounts and can make mid five figures, even low six figures, doing this full time and grinding unlimited accounts without having to scale and we see these tweets all the time, and that's a totally acceptable lifestyle. If that's what you want, go for it. 

16:03
The thing that I have an issue with that you obviously alluded to is those people then selling the edge and acting as if they found a cure for cancer, and this is like this is the greatest money-making method of all time, when it's really not. It's like all these top-down, like the odd shams of the world. It's selling you a service to be able to make between 1515 and $30 an hour. Grinding it out. Is that a good thing? Certainly, and it's much better than people betting on themselves, but it's not the secret sauce to generational wealth. You have to do a lot more than that, and I think some people don't want that, but some people are totally fine grinding it out. There's a few Twitter accounts. I know that grind it out like eight hours a day and that's no problem with that. 

16:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, it's. Everyone's got different strategies towards betting. Everyone's got different ways of going about it 100%, but I think the worst of the worst out there are the people who sell top-down picks. 

17:04 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, Let me ask you man. 

17:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Anyone can do that? 

17:09 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
What was that? I got one question Do you think there's any better? That sells picks legitimately. That is winning. Do you think there's anyone out there? 

17:21 - Flup (Co-host)
Yes, yes. So, nididu, I'm not. I kind of shifted away from the all touts are bad. The majority are, and you can have many winning touts that win themselves and sell picks. The problem is, if those picks win and they sell them, the odds that those the users that are buying get the same number is very low. I could run a Discord right now and sell. You should not buy my picks because by the time you get the number, the number has moved. It's no longer good for you anymore. So even though I'm winning, you wouldn't win buying my picks, and that's how most people are. I can't think of many people that can sell picks and their clients can win as well. That's the very difficult part. There's a few services out there that I can think of, but even then, if you're able to do that, then you struggle with the fact that you're going to get limited even faster. So is it even worth it to buy it at that point? 

18:15 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, I'm going to say this Both of you are invited next fall to Nadeau and you can see what I do and you can put it to the test here we go. 

18:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It'll be a will be. It's like uh, we're gonna be grp track, I'm gonna have my notebook for the day show it up on here every week uh, I, I work, uh, on the board. 

18:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You can work with pips nba who, who is a pick seller, and everything is pointed towards him being a winning. Better, who is a winning pick seller as well as his clients win. He's a winner as well and the numbers are like like look like 10. 20 minutes later maybe not, but you know, if you're on the ball with things you'll get. You'll get down at prices at widely available numbers. So I'll shout out him as an example of a person who sells picks is a winner and clients win as well. 

19:02 - Flup (Co-host)
Well, jacob, to push back on that, it's just like those Get him. 

19:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Flop. The boardroom doesn't have nothing on Hit the Books and he's trying to floss up his guy on there. Bury his ass. 

19:13 - Flup (Co-host)
Even if that's all true, you still don't know the limiting conversation Right? There's first the limiting, but also it's how they advertise it as well. If I'm a customer that has a full-time job, I might not be able to get the picks at the same rate that he's sending them out, so they're always going to come 30 minutes later and at this point, they're dust to me. Additionally, is it made clear that you have to play at this specific number? Made clear that you have to play at this specific number? So I've seen so many people where they post their picks on twitter and then someone has tailed them and bought in the picks at a number like 50 to 100 cents worth, and I'm like the original pick might have been winning and I think the uh, the issue with like the like, like I'm not the type to buy picks, but the people who would be the type to buy picks don't want to really have to think, so they wouldn't likely. 

20:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It is communicated. The price is important. That is definitely communicated. There are people who just refuse to be saved. Sometimes on the show there's a bet that Pips wants to play, let's say, but it's no longer available at the price he wants to play. So we don't even tell people what it is. We like people ask that what's, what would the pick have been? We don't even tell them because we know people will bet them. Even though we explicitly say you cannot bet this anymore because the price is gone, they will still bet it. So we don't even tell people. So some people can't be saved. I agree with you, like for any pick seller, like accounts is definitely a problem, but I don't think there's like any perfect way to sell picks. But there are better ways than others to go. Well, the top-down stuff is as folks. Top-down is ridiculous, of course. 

20:55 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Giving people like, hey, you can bet this at ESPN, bet or Fanatics or like Tropicana or something, something where, like you know, these books that are the slowest to move, that take bets from nobody hey, still good here, and it's like that. I mean, that's really what you're getting in a lot of these discords, hard rock. 

21:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Right. So again, nothing perfect, but better ways to go about it than others. Top-down tax selling is just ridiculous. But I do mostly agree with China. I wouldn't say 99.9% of cases that person can't win. I'd say 99.9% of times that person can't quite scale to the degree that they want. I think that's maybe the bigger problem. But let's move on to the next topic. I alluded to it a little bit here. A 25K prop bet. Was that in relation to this topic here? This comes from NBA Green Beans, brett Feinsod, and the original poster here is Thon Misser. At Thon Misser, who says let me know, this is the original post from December 21st. He says let me know if you want the Venmo or if you're more of a Zelly guy. Is that how you say it, zelly? 

22:09 - Flup (Co-host)
Zell, zell. You Americans don't even have e-transfers. 

22:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It's ridiculous. You guys have to use all these extra services to send people money when Canadians can just use e-transfer. You just send it through email and that's it. 

22:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Easy, no fees, but anyways, uh, this is how it starts. 

22:28 - Flup (Co-host)
Nobody has any money in canada, so it's not a big deal, it doesn't matter. Hey man, no time, anyway it's it's all good, we're having direction. 

22:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Americans won't have any money as well. Man, uh, brett feinstein says brother, there are over 400 nba games in a month. You should be able to get down enough NBA volume to mitigate bad variants every month. Part of being a goat is changing or adapting losing processes If you are losing over a large sample size. Thon Misser chimes in and says I mean, there just isn't over 400 games a month. Like, it's simply not true. Brett Feinstein, yes, there is, with the laughing, crying emojis. There's been 810 NBA games the past two months and remember this is in December, two months into the NBA season which started around October 21st. Thawne, fantastic. I'll bet you $25,000 that there hasn't been 800 NBA games played so far this season. Brett Feinstein Deal been 800 NBA games played so far this season. 

23:25
Brett Feinstein deal and then quotes that tweet from Thon to Victory Lap says you owe me 25K, brother. And then Thon replies imagine selling picks and not realizing two teams play in a basketball game. There have been 405 games played coming into tonight. After tonight it'll be 419. Let me know if you want the Venmo. So to put it to the test, I asked ChatGPT how many games there are in an average NBA season. I mean, there's obviously easier ways to do this, but I said to ChatGPT. I said how many NBA games take place per month on average during the regular season. This is something that Brett could have done to avoid this whole mess and it comes down to about 205 games per month league-wide, which is right around 410 over two months. But, as Thawne alludes to here, brett Feinsod used all of the teams game played and added it up, which obviously two teams play in each game. 

24:27
Thon said, for clarification here, I am not expecting and he brought this up this week this has resurfaced months later. This is we're May 1st now, but the resurface is April. For clarification here, I'm not expecting at NBA, green Beans to pay on this bet. Am I glad I dunked on him? For sure Is the boxing content the lamest thing on this app 1,000%. Do I want to ruin anyone's reputation over a stupid miscalculation? No, and Flub. You are one of the many people who jumped in and said I'm confused. Do you not expect 25K? Because you expect it and interest? And many other people said no, he owes you $25,000. But Brett, underneath of course, said this Appreciate you being mature and clarifying. Thawne, brett Feinstein, nba Greetings. By the way, pick seller in the NBA space, self-proclaimed pro-better, I think is the best way to put it here Flup. Yes, you want to elaborate, you think? 

25:25 - Flup (Co-host)
that he owes him 25 000. It's funny thought actually met dm'd me and asked like what I, what I thought, and I said I mean you're not, you clearly can't expect to collect. This is a miscommunication. All it looks like is brett is a massive idiot, which which it was funny and it was cool to dunk on him, but I mean both people were never going to pay if they are proven wrong in this instance. So the bet I don't consider that a serious bet. If you really want to make a bet with someone, you got to like go with it in DMs and confirm and everything like that. The way they did it, it was never serious. It was funny to dunk on him, but I don't think it's good to drag his reputation through the mud like that. Make him look like an idiot, totally cool, but make him look like a stiff. 

26:08 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Not cool. Two things we got to stop with these bets online. Do they ever work out correctly? I mean, there's always something going on with them. Number two this is the really interesting arc of the continued people involved in Elf Spaces. One week you're on top of the world, right, continued people involved in elf spaces. One week you're on top of the world, right. I mean, he beat up manna library, really, wasn't it close? Brett was good, he was kind of in a good spot. Now it's back to. You know, he's back in the doghouse again. He's got to explain why he didn't do this and didn't do that and he's giving people more ammo. Uh, that don't like him, and there are a lot of people that don't like brett, I mean. 

26:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I love a good green bean burial, I'll tell you that. So, uh, I I enjoyed it. But the amount I think the thing here was the amount right, like if they said like 500, then it's like it feels more real. Like like if we got 500, like deal, deal. Okay, here you're an idiot, pay me the money. And then I think, even just to like if I I don't know if green bee would do this, but like if it, if it's me, then like I'm just giving the guy the 500 bucks because, like I was in it, I was wrong here. 

27:09 - Flup (Co-host)
I do want to. He did give him $1,000 just for. Oh really, yes, greenby did give him $1,000. 

27:16 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
And the kid bet it on 27 to 1 on the Clippers. 

27:20 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, then to me I think I gotta give it. You're like I'm clear, greenbees, clear in there you got done. You paid a little money. I think the amount was just kind of one of those like it's a joking type of amount unless you're doing something. So, yeah, I think, uh, that's, it's a fair resolution. 

27:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I was gonna follow up and ask do you think if it had gone the other way would ref vinesaw be asking for that 25k? But you guys all seem to think he wouldn't. 

27:46 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yes, no, he wouldn't. 

27:47 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He'd be yes. 

27:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Oh, you think he would Flub, you don't? Think so, but Ndunke you think he would be asking for it. 

27:52 - Flup (Co-host)
No, he would. He would be asking for it, but I don't think he would be expecting to collect the and like he was wrong and he already was like right, try to clown him, right, right, whereas like that's why I think thawne here it looks a lot better because thawne just like let it go for a couple months and then brought it back up when it became relevant again and it was, it was well timed and he did. 

28:16 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I think he did deserve a thousand dollars there can we go back to that tweet thing that you just had up? We got a comment on one thing Part of being a GOAT is changing or adapting, losing, like that's a funny. Is he saying that he's a GOAT or yes, yes? 

28:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Right before looking like an ass. 

28:35 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
That's very funny actually. It's just perfect, what's? 

28:38 - Flup (Co-host)
so good is. He acts like he's this genius NBA guy and doesn't even know how many games he's played. Yes, that's a by the way. 

28:44 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
One genius NBA guy. I didn't even know how many games. Yeah, that's a, by the way. One other thing Thon Misser is a. 

28:49 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's a very oh yeah, legit name, like absolutely, like I was going to bring that up too Like absolute banger. Yeah, jacob doesn't even know he's our NBA guy. 

29:02 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
He doesn't even know it's play on thon maker thon maker? 

29:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
yeah, he was. Yeah, I remember thon maker is canadian. You're acting like I don't know. Yeah, yeah, what about the maker? 

29:10 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
thon maker was the great, like everyone thought he was going to be the most amazing, I will say me too. 

29:15 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I was like whoa, this guy's unbelievable. He's gonna be on and he's like the laziest nba player of all time. People like six teams kept giving him a chance because of his talent. 

29:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He like did nothing ever well, let's go to you guys, the viewers, the listeners. Let's go to the comments, and we have a couple of comments here to discuss on today's show here, the first one comes from brad bd0911 says I also dislike the arbitrage argument. So it was uh, in reference to fluff, you said on the previous episode you worried about when a bet gets voided for a misclick or bad price. 

29:51
You mentioned that you worry about arbitrage bettors and how that could affect them, and this is what brad had to respond with. I also dislike the arbitrage argument. Arbitraging is not a tactic used by many recreational slash novice bettors. Therefore, many of the examples being illustrated really are moot, since they only apply to those with experience, parentheses who fully know what they are doing and are trying to have their cake and eat it too. So Flop. Obviously we'll let you go first, because this is disagreeing with your point here. What do you have to say to that Great point, brad? 

30:22 - Flup (Co-host)
No bad point, because we just saw an example. This past week there was another case of the Novig void. We'll get there. We'll get there. The guy is clearly a recreational bettor in arbitrage and we talked about it earlier with Joey's tweet. How many odds jam shills? Come out there and promote the arbitrage and you can be a new, new, better and learn about arbitrage and be arbing within a week. You have no idea what's going on. These are recreational and novice bettors that have no idea what's going on and they aren't trying to take advantage of like palps or void or like errors and anything like that. They're just doing what their hero on Twitter has told them and they're you're, you know, like the Alex Monahan. They love Alex Monahan and they're just doing what he says and they don't mean any. They're not trying to take advantage there. So this is completely ludicrous. Joey is completely wrong. He tried to agree with it. He has no idea what he's talking about, brad and I. 

31:18 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Obviously people agree with Joey K Shocker. 

31:23 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
By the way, I didn't get to comment on this. I was not asleep the other week. 

31:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Fuckers, there's some video evidence here it was Mike Viv. 

31:36 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, that moron. 

31:38 - Flup (Co-host)
That was hilarious. 

31:39 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I was looking down dummy. 

31:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But, anything that comes out of that fucking guy's mouth is always stupid if anyone doesn't know, a couple weeks ago and you do there was a video of him. It appeared as though he was sleeping. I did say on the show it was more so, like you're probably on looks looking at your phone, but yes, that is you have your chance now, today. 

31:59 - Flup (Co-host)
It's more funny if you think it's sleeping. So I'm gonna, we're gonna with that one, even if it's wrong. 

32:06 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
All right. 

32:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Let's go to the next comment. I actually didn't realize this at the time, but Brad is both the comments here, because Brad had another good one here on the Another great comment by Brad. 

32:15
Well, we'll see. The ProfitX debacle gives me pause because it takes personal responsibility away from ensuring your data is correct and you have set a right price. The infantilization of society and the increase of guardrails takes away personal responsibility from almost every facet. If you bet no home run at minus 6,000 and want it voided, it is not so different from wanting an injured player over voided. You made a bad bet. Sometimes you have to live with the bad choices in life. 

32:45 - Flup (Co-host)
It sounds like brad is agreeing with me here joey, like didn't. 

32:49 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm like. 

32:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, I'm lost in this argument now, like I don't know what side brad's on, I don't even remember what side I'm on, like we're going around in circles eight times so this is just comparing like, if you, if somebody sets a wrong price on a market and and wants itided, it's the same as somebody making a bet on, like, let's say, anthony Davis over whatever points he gets into the first five minutes and everyone's yelling for that to get voided. Is that the same as setting the wrong price on a Colorado Avalanche's market when you bet the? Or when you set a price for one game instead of an entire series? What do you think, flo? 

33:28 - Flup (Co-host)
So it's really nuanced here, but I can think of an example where I'm given bad data by a data provider and I set a price that is wildly off, which I think is what happened with the avalanche example. The market maker was given a bad data set. They thought it was the game price or the previous before the series started price and they priced it wrong off of information that they had no control over. It wasn't like they had all the information and then made a terrible decision. They had bad information that wasn't their fault. So that's very different than if I were to misclick on a no home run at minus 6,000. I would agree with his point more that if someone misclicks or miscalculates the price based on correct information, they have to take some personal responsibility. But it's really really hard to decide which is personal responsibility and which is just bad data from a data provider. 

34:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Jeff, you didn't have a chance to weigh in on this last week, but when somebody puts out the wrong price on something like ProfitX, where they set the price incorrectly and a better takes advantage of that, do you think that that bet should be voided because they clearly made an error when setting the price on the exchange? 

34:43 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
No, I don't. 

34:45 - Flup (Co-host)
It's their systems. It's their responsibility. 

34:48 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's what Brad is kind of pointing out here. 

34:50 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, I agree with him. I think he's 100% right. It's no different than you know if. But then again, here's where I'll say it If the bank gives me $5,000 too much, it's not my money, right. 

35:07 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Bank wants the money back. Right, are you giving the money back? 

35:10 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Bank wants our money back, of course I'm going to get prosecuted 100%. I'm going to give the money back. I mean, that's just how it works. So I guess, in terms of that, I guess you look at it like that. But again it's a slippery slope. I would say in this, these terms no, but flop. You disagree with that? 

35:31 - Flup (Co-host)
in principle, I, I, I agree, but it becomes problematic. Like my point was say, I'm trying to make a bet on something and I'm and I'm using um odds provided by ESPN or odds provided by the exchange and the odds are incorrect. So then I make a bad price. How is that my fault? I was using their information. The exchange should, in my opinion, void the bet, because what am I supposed to do in this instance? 

36:01 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, this is the interesting thing, because there's all these instances that we can make on things as far as we do in life where, like, if the bank gives you too much money, they're going to prosecute you if you don't give the money back. If doordash sends me two orders and I like both of them, I'm not gonna like call dorsh, be like, hey, uh, you know you gave me too many orders, like I'm just gonna eat it, you know. So I don, I don't know it's the example I would have used. 

36:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Like you know, if I'm at like a restaurant, they just don't put something on my bill that I had ordered. I wouldn't. I'm not going to hey, you missed this. I owe you more money. 

36:34 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I'm not going to say it's an ethical thing. 

36:37 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I think we would eat both. The new one just to eat, and then, you know, saves it for the his meal prep but let me ask you this here's an ethical question for all of you. 

36:48 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
You have two people right. One of them is a drug dealer. You know he's a drug dealer. The other is a little old lady. They both dropped two thousand dollars out of their, their wallet. Yeah, and you, but you walk away. Are you gonna both of the time say to them, hey, you drop that, or like with the one guy? 

37:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
yeah, it was like the restaurant example. You know if I'm at like a 4k. 

37:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He's walking to his house. 

37:09 - Flup (Co-host)
That's actually a really good question to do, because I would be more inclined to take the money from the drug dealer and less and more kind of give it back to. 

37:21 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Most people would, but I would say it's just go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, I would just say with both. It's going to live in your conscious both times. Maybe he's a drug dealer who, you know, that's his last batch he's cooked up. He ain't doing it after this. He just had, you know, triplets. He's out, he's going to get a real job. It would still bother me that. You know it's kind of scant, you know. 

37:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't know. So, related to my example, if it's like a mom and pop shop local that I'm trying to support, I'll let. Maybe I'll let them know. But if I'm going to like a conglomerate of a restaurant, you know, like Olive Garden, I'm definitely not going to. 

37:56 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
So during the during the George Floyd riots, you were OK with looting because it's Nike, they have enough money, money, I think that's a little bit different if it's a mom and pop corner store, that's, I mean. Is it any different? 

38:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think it is different. Uh, I think in one example they forget to put something on my bill. Another example I'm breaking and entering into a place of business. 

38:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But it's the same thought. Are you okay with both? 

38:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I wouldn't say looting is good at any level. 

38:35 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Okay, that's what I agree, I agree. 

38:38 - Flup (Co-host)
I want to relate this back to sports betting, which is the main topic of this. 

38:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, I mean, we'll see in just a second here. 

38:46 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah. He wants to make that $4,000 he just took from the old lady. Go ahead, Flo. What are you going to bet on with it? 

38:55 - Flup (Co-host)
In the example that Nadeau gave, is if I have two different users on the exchange one's a market maker and one is a recreational better I would be more inclined to avoid the recreational betters than I would the market makers, even if it's the same situation, because I feel like the recreational better is more innocent and deserves a bigger break here, whereas you could make the argument that the market maker should be more aware of mistakes, like if they miscollect or something like that an example of a misclick. 

39:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'd be more willing to avoid a recreational better, and maybe that's not the right attitude, but a lot of these cases have to go case by case and you can't have blanket rules let's just take a second here to thank all the amazing viewers and listeners on the circles off platform, especially for shows like circle back, and even more especially for our, a team for these friday episodes. You, the people, are what help drive this content. But you can help drive this content even further, first of all on youtube by hitting that like button and subscribing to the channel, helping us on the road to 20 000 subs. If you're listening in audio form and take a second to rate and review five stars as you help grow the channel, as you help grow the hammer, we can do more content more often and maybe land some even bigger guests. So make sure you're supporting our content. But now let's get back to the current episode. Well, I think it's time to move on here. It's tough to move on to this topic, but it is time to move on to this topic here. 

40:24
Matt Zilbert once again is the feature on today's show and, as I said in the intro of today's show, gambling Twitter has spun beyond just gambling in the recent weeks, and maybe no more than this example here. So Matt Zilbert, the whole saga, I mean for years Matt Zilbert has been a bit of a unliked figure in the gambling Twitter space because of his constant persistence to reply to people who are professional bettors asking for the record. Sometimes they were even replied to the VP of analytics for an NFL team and asked what his documented record is for this season. But has made a bad rep for himself in doing this, in continuously calling people out. And upon calling people out consistently for their documented record, matt Zilbert himself got into hot water because there is an article that clearly shows edits were made after midnight after a game had concluded, and it is very, very, very likely that in that instance, almost 100% certain that the article was edited to change where we thought that was the worst thing he did over the last few months. 

41:32 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I know. 

41:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm getting there, but this is how I'm trying to like develop the story here. So change an article to change where a bet was placed to turn a losing bet into a voided bet and this caused mayhem, and it caused for people who didn't like zilbert, who wanted to call him out for this edit article when he is always calling other people out for documentary. It caused them to dig a little bit deeper into exactly who Matt Zilbert is beyond gambling Twitter. Well, publicly available information surfaced that Matt Zilbert actually has been arraigned and pled not guilty for a stalking charge. And on top of this stalking charge, this trial has been continuously postponed. As Frankbo points here at jason williams i7 time to leak the dms, our little guy zilbert has a pending stalking charge and his public defender keeps postponing the trial. Who would have ever imagined this, based on his online stalking behavior at ylf hashtag? 

42:39 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
more to so, why was the start here? You got to say the boss language. What's up with that? I? 

42:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
just I don't really. I don't even understand what that is either, to be honest. 

42:55 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
So this is stalking in the fourth degree. Okay, it's a misdemeanor. Okay, it's not a felony. That doesn't mean that it's not a felony. Um, that doesn't mean that it's not bad and we shouldn't take it seriously. The problem is, this is just an allegation. Okay, and I am, I think, the most, one of the most important things that I try to live by is, in some of the things that I do, everything is an alleged thing until someone is convicted in open court. 

43:18
You can't just assume now in in this case, people will use this against Matt. Even if he beats the rap on this, he'll still have to hear it because, well, maybe he did it and he was just found not guilty. We also have to remember this could be a girlfriend of his that maybe said I don't want to see you. They had a fight. I don't want to see you. She calls the cops and said's stalking her, you know. So I think we really have to wait. This is twitter, though, and people aren't going to do that. Um, that said, I think the one comment that I that I do kind of relate to, and what rambo said, is he does have some weird behavior on twitter, with this kind of thing constant, you know, bothering people on the same shit. So I think've got to wait to see what happens here. 

44:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
If you're talking about what Zilbo charged for his game, stalking would have been chalk. I would have had stalking minus 200. So I will say my only point is I hope Rob is happy he brought Paul Zostapazola, brought Zilbo. He was gone, his career was over, he was in the shadows, brought him back to fruition Super Bowl prop show. He's back at Deadspin and look what happened now. So this is like one of those movies where the thing you create all of a sudden turns on you. 

44:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Oppenheimer I said it from the start he's going to have his Oppenheimer moment. This is it. I said this was going to happen. 

44:45 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Did I not? Also for anyone, just before we hear from Flop, matt Zilber's not going to go to jail over this. 

44:58 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's likely that he'll Okay. I just saw, with stalking in the fourth degree, a misdemeanor. Why has he been? 

45:04 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
going on for a year and a half. 

45:05 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Why didn't you take a plea and get like? 

45:08 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Here's why he's not going to take a plea because in his heart and this is why I would never take a plea if I didn't do something If I didn't do something, you're not going to make me plea guilty to something I didn't do. I think Matt Zilbert probably, at least in his heart of hearts, please, he did nothing wrong here. He can prove beyond a reasonable doubt he did nothing wrong here and they're just trying to keep the ducks in a row. In the end it's a misdemeanor, but this is something that people on the internet will use forever. And if he's exonerated of it, look, I'm never going to plead to something I didn't do. 

45:41
Um, a lot of the time people plead because they know the government has them by the balls. So they say, well, I don't want to get life for this, so I'll take the 10 years, um, and it's like a get out of jail free card in a way. So, yeah, remember too. This could be as simple like he went to a bar right, got a girl's number they were both drunk. He hit her up the next day. She didn't respond and he just kept hitting her up and she felt worried about it, you know. So we just got to wait and see with this yeah, so, and you do. 

46:10 - Flup (Co-host)
I agree a lot with the first half. You said, uh, this is pending, and I think it's pretty disgusting from frank rainbow to tweet about this because nothing has happened. We cannot, we live in america, we're not in, you know, communist Canada, like like Jacob over there. We have the saves. We, we are innocent until proven guilty. You have to assume Matt didn't do it until, if he ever does get convicted and the problem I had with this later half, what you said to do is this exactly what rambo was going for. He's hoping people think, oh, zilbert has these tendencies online. He probably did it. You cannot assume that. You have to. You have to assume he's innocent. Maybe zilbert is very different in person than he is online. We have no idea. Does anyone know him in person? So you have to assume he's innocent. Thank God, no Right. You have to assume he's innocent and using this to spread a hate message is disgusting behavior in my opinion. 

47:16 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
And this is an issue with the internet and this is a real problem across the board. Celebrities deal with this shit all the time. I don't like that celebrity, so he's definitely guilty. He did that shit. Yeah, all right, you got to give people the benefit of the doubt, but yeah, I hope it's not. I don't want to see any woman go through shit like this. But we'll have to wait and see. But, as Phelps said, like and New York doesn't, like I know in Pennsylvania, like you could look up what I did, like if this was me, new York's really like they keep everything cryptic. They just put out what the charge is and that's it. So we'll see. But he told me, according to him, he didn't do it and he's fighting for his innocence, so you got to give him that you guys are absolutely correct, I, I, I the. 

48:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
The goal of this, of making this public, is absolutely like. It is a bad look, regardless whether he did it or not, and and I, I'm in agreement with you that you know, uh, in a court of law it's innocent until proven guilty. But it's been spread because he's rubbed people the wrong way and it's a bad look. Now, should it have gone this far? I don't necessarily think so. 

48:27 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I need to tell you I've never done the shit he's done. If I had this charge, it'd be put out there too. 

48:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah. 

48:34 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I mean, it's all about just your overall feeling on someone. There might be one person who just doesn't like me. 

48:46 - Flup (Co-host)
It doesn't make it right, though if that's, that's yeah, this is disgusting. Look for frank rambo like I lose a lot of respect for it for him. 

48:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, uh it, this is bad. Uh it got worse. It got worse. Uh, more mad zilbert news surfaced also from from like Frank Rambo, who pulled up an article and charges against Zilbert which he was found innocent of. I'll preface by saying this was case type personal injury towards a motor vehicle, new York Supreme Court's. The defendant here is listed as Matthew C Zilbert and the article reads I don't really want to read the entire article and I blocked out the name of the victim out of it is publicly available, but I just didn't really want to broadcast the name of the victim. I didn't feel like it needed to do that. But yes, it is confirmed that Matt Zilbert was driving a vehicle which struck a pedestrian and killed that pedestrian. Now in the court he was found innocent. 

49:42
But frank rambo put this up. Uh, this is a breeding what frank rambo said here. This is true. Zilbert blank a woman with his car. His daddy had to get him a lawyer to avoid vehicular blank charges. Uh, elf knows this is true and he tried to cover it up, but now it's out in the open. We know matt zilbert uh likes to drink. One can only wonder. Uh well, I'll get to that in a second here big assumption there um nothing is fact. This is uh, but this is the information that we have. 

50:12 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Let's see this. This just shows you that, whether or not matt zilbert is innocent or not of the other charge we just talked about, this won't be enough for these people, because we just made it clear Matt Zilbert was found to have no wrong, like it was an accident. He probably lives with that shit every day. Man Like this is why the internet can get really fucked up, because he was clearly in a court of law found innocent. He lives with it every day and you get this guy talking about this and that why this should have happened. Nothing will ever be enough for Frank Rambo. He doesn't like Matt Zilbert. Nothing will be enough. It's just how. He's made that very clear. 

50:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'll finish the story here. So Elf said it's a ridiculous statement that I tried to cover up the Zilbert car crash in 2018. And Zilbert is appearing. We record this show Thursday evening. Zilbert will be on the Elf show tonight, so by the time this comes out Friday morning, that will already have happened. But this is the information we have right now. Zilbert did say that he does live with this, but this is a Zilbert tweet from 2020. This is from 2020. A screenshot brought up from I Run so Bad One. Yep stayed there, took breathalyzer Obviously nothing, since I was only on my way to friend's house for Dodgers Red Sox World Series game. In parentheses he says Bueller was pitching, ironically, had the over and lost and then and went home after the whole scene devastated. It's still tough to process day. I think that the fact you lost a bet is something that is we're okay to, just maybe don't bring that up still. 

51:45
I think there's more important things that you're losing your bet, but yeah uh, again, this feels like we're going a little far here. What do you think? 

51:53 - Flup (Co-host)
this is exactly what ned who said. Zilbert still has difficulty processing this from from till to this day. This is disgusting behavior from from rank rambo, and and I run so bad or whatever on twitter. These have. These people have no shame. I mean has. Are they perfect? Have they done nothing wrong in their personal lives? How would they feel about that getting brought up? And, additionally, he was found not guilty in the court. Yeah, court of law, like you have to assume he didn't do it. Do we not trust the justice system? 

52:24 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But this is again. This makes it clear that whatever happens in this new case, it will not be enough for him. Look, I would also tell Matt this, and a lot of people have this problem on Twitter. I noticed. Why is he going on an Elf show to talk about this? I mean, what does he? 

52:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
have to do. That was going to be one of my follow-ups. 

52:46 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, I try to do this with the whole Sean Perry thing. You shouldn't do this, this is a bad idea, you shouldn't do it. And then, look, I like Elf. But then it's like, well, when something happens, happens, you're like, why am I being thrown into this? And it's like, because you're you're gonna use this, you're gonna, you're gonna get matt and you're gonna clown on him. 

53:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
People will laugh at it and he'll say something stupid, I'm sure, and it'll fuck everything up for him yeah, I would say the word like the, the zilbert, trolling this kind of this took it to like, uh, an unhealthy level here of like you know, if you even the first thing like, it's public information, you know the charge is going out there that to insinuate that like even in his first tweet, that like he likes to drink, like when that was obviously proven not to be the case and the article article said so. This got a little ugly for me, where I can find humor in a lot of things, this little uncomfortable. 

53:50 - Flup (Co-host)
Just keep it to gambling. Like Jacob said earlier on, he had that idiotic thing where he changed losing bet to a push. Attack him on that. He's done lots of stupid things gambling-related that are all public on Twitter. You can attack him for anything like that, but especially when it's pending and when he was proven guilty or sorry, not guilty innocent. What are we doing here? What is he supposed to do in this situation? He was proven innocent and you're attacking him for it. 

54:21 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Can we bring that back up? The, the original the, the tweet with the not. 

54:27
Uh, now go back the one with the, the, the obituary or whatever on it okay, so yeah um, yeah, it also looks that in on the left he was also sued, probably in civil court for wrongful death, because that's what that looks like there. Um, the, the executor of the estate, sued him, it looks like. So not only did he have to, you know, I'm sure this is something that he has had to live with on multiple levels. Um, this could happen to anybody man, you know you're driving, you know I. I know someone very close to me that this happened to they. They actually had a child, sadly, and they lived with it their whole life. The kid just ran out for a ball or something and it's, I don't know. 

55:08
Like Flop said, I've dealt with shit like this, not necessarily what he's dealing with, but people will use anything against me. What does it have to do with Twitter? I don't have any idea, but Frank Rambo has some issue with Zilbert. He will go to the ends of the earth and has no problem with bringing up anything. I'd like to know who Frank Rambo is like, see what he's done in his life. You know it's easy to throw stones in glass houses, especially when you don't like someone, but I think some of the shit you got to just keep off here. 

55:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But it doesn't seem like frank's gonna. So zilbert has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and has continued to like double, triple, quadruple down on on on that, like he, he unpromptedly calls people out. Uh, I don't think it should have been taken to this degree at all and the insinuations that are being made are are taking it too far. But I but I also would say from for for zilbert here look like this is a guy that again shows up in people's mentions, unprompted, all the time and to a very continuous degree for a lot of people with like, with this information being public as well. Uh, like I'm not, I'm not trying to blame him here, but he's he's exposed himself for people not liking him. He's exposed himself for people digging in on him. 

56:23 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
It should not have been taken to this degree, though, but let me ask you, jacob, if Matt's found innocent, will Frank Rambo tweet that out? No, no. 

56:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's what I'm saying. It's taken to a too severe degree here with the way it's being insinuated with the language on the screenshots. I think Nadeau had a great point. 

56:42 - Flup (Co-host)
It doesn't matter. Like you're saying, jacob, is irrelevant because you need to find one person that doesn't like Zilbert. Does anyone have a public appearance that has truly 100% of people that like him? No, even the most liked people have haters, and it takes one person to do something stupid. So you can't blame Zilbert for being incessant and being annoying because it doesn't matter. It just takes one person to not like you for whatever fucked up reason and attack. So to blame Zilbert is also disgusting and gross. In my opinion. It's not Zilbert's fault, it's Frank Rambo's fault. He should be the one that takes full responsibility and full blame. He should delete these tweets and apologize, because this is disgusting. 

57:25 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But is this where we are, that we're grasping for things that didn't? That happened. We then found out that he was innocent in, and we're still going to use them against him. Like what? At what point do we say maybe I'm just going to skip this one, you know, I'll keep clowning on him for his bets, or something Exactly? 

57:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't even know, like I don't know, where it goes from here. 

57:48
I don't know. I guess we'll see after his appearance on the Elf Spaces. But yeah, I have no idea where this goes from here. But let's switch to a more lighthearted topic here. If we can, we'll go to the well just to give us the discourse. And gambling, because gambling twitter has gone from more than just gambling. It actually has now discussed bill belichick and his 24 year old girlfriend. It also has discussed one gorilla versus 100 men robert mays points out here discourse about the influence of unc head coach bill belichick's 24 year old girlfriend, intertwined with talk about logistics of 100 men fighting one gorilla just isn't the sort of day you could have imagined on the internet 20 years ago. 

58:31
A world of endless possibilities. And on the topic of bill belichick, first of all, uh, lots of drama around his girlfriend, jordan hudson at the moment because, first all, she played a quote-unquote instrumental role in UNC football's fallout with hard knocks. There was going to be a hard knocks on the UNC team this season, but she apparently wanted way too much involvement so they had to shut down the entire thing from happening. And in a recent interview Bill Belichick was doing, by the way, the shirt, the, the shirt why does belichick always dress like a homeless? 

59:08
uh, their interview was interrupted when the interviewer asked, uh, bill belichick, how him and his girlfriend met. Like a pretty common question to ask to a couple, especially a pretty new couple taking interest in them. Just, you know, light-hearted question, and it was shut down immediately by jordan who said we are, we're not talking about that, uh, as you can see off to the side, uh, nadu, you had some very you, you are excited to talk about this, what well, let's start with this before we get into it. 

59:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is the type of woman they do needs in his life Strong woman as they can get her fit together. Put them in check. 

59:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I could see they do. What would be the type of woman After a? 

59:54 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
little baby, you know, coming along here and that being kind of his future. 

59:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
What would be the type of woman? This is a very diabolical lob here, but what would be the type of woman that would not want anyone to know how she met her boyfriend? 

01:00:11 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, listen, if you can get past the sticker shock, the very shocking age gap between these two, what's the years? I don't understand the hype. I don't get that Like. I don't understand why people with. I don't get that like. I don't understand why people care so much they do. 

01:00:23 - Flup (Co-host)
Are you saying that a 50 year age gap is not normal? 

01:00:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I mean no, no, I'm saying if you can get past that. It's very weird, surely? 

01:00:31
she's apparently 24, but this is no different than any other relationship. A lot of men date women that tell them what to do or wear the pants in their relationship. The only big thing is is Bill Belichick, maybe just some people don't want to talk about it. They don't want to know what. What does it matter to anybody? We met a certain way and we're happy with it. That's all that matters. Also, I'm so beyond this whole thought that when you are a man that looks like Bill Belichick, when you're a man that looks like Jeff Nadeau, when you're a man that looks like Joey Kanish, you've got to do things to attract women, to have beautiful women around you, you have to do certain things Could mean paying for certain things when you go places. That's just how it works. I'm happy. 

01:01:14 - Flup (Co-host)
I didn't get called out there. 

01:01:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I just don't understand why people I thought I was going to- catch a stray. 

01:01:20 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But no, if you have a beautiful, hot woman like her around you, there's something you're doing above just the way you look. Let's just be honest. And, by the way, real quick, the whole 70-year-old with 20-year-olds that's been happening forever. Go to Florida and look around. It happens all the time. Why is this such a big thing? It's weird, yeah, I get it, but other than that, it's pretty normal. 

01:01:45 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I was, you would have had 48 hours ago. I would have been like they do. I'm with you. Agree, what's come out in the last day or so between the CBS interview behavior and now she's got, like you know, a $10 million real estate portfolio that she didn't have a few months ago. It's getting to the level, joey. 

01:02:07 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Joey, I'm agreeing with you. The truth of the matter is she is a come-upper, just like a lot of the young girls, to go out with older men. There are women that I know personally that literally don't have a job. They sit at home all day and men pay for their lifestyle. They have no shame in it. This is just how they do things. They have a brand-new Mercedes. This is how they do things. Anna Nicole Smith was doing this 25 years ago. This is as old as time. She's a come-upper. That's what she does. She finds unattractive, rich men and gets her lifestyle paid for this. There's websites dedicated to this. Seeking Arrangement is dedicated to this whole thing. 

01:02:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Sounds like I'll push back. Sorry, if I could go, I'll push back a little bit, just because, like it's not Obviously, I think it's a. I wouldn't agree with a 50 year age gap in the relationship, but like, okay, you know what. 

01:03:00 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
No to why that's what they want. 

01:03:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Sure, go ahead. Go off Bill. But like it's the level of control she is trying to exude in every facet of his life that I think people are more sticking on, rather than we can't we kind of understand what's going on. She didn't have any real estate portfolio. Now she has like an eight million or ten million dollar one. That that's whatever like that always happens. But like the level of control she is trying to take over on bill doug's life, to the fact that they had to cancel running a hard knocks series for unc because she insisted so much involved they're, like you know, we we can't even do this show because of how much of a problem she is going to be in making it happen. Okay, fluff, go ahead. 

01:03:45 - Flup (Co-host)
Well, first, of all I just want to say it sounds like Joey's a little jealous that he can't. He's a real estate savvy enough to to generate a new. 

01:03:55 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean, I didn't know, treated you better. If you give me $10 million in real estate, you can do whatever you want. How do we not know that she just didn't produce from $100,000 to $9 million? Right, it could be like the new HGTV show. 

01:04:11 - Flup (Co-host)
Exactly. I think it's funny because we're all inferring here and we didn't like it with the Zilbert when we were inferring. But I think this is very different, because they're a public figure and they can choose not to be a public figure. You can, you can take yourself out of the spotlight. He didn't have to take another head coaching job. This is what comes with the part of the territory, and I think nidoo made a great point, or was it jacob? They said the controlling aspect was yeah you think? Nadeau made that good point. 

01:04:44 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I didn't make that point. 

01:04:45 - Flup (Co-host)
Yeah, the controlling aspect is really weird, especially for someone like Bill Belichick, who controlled the Patriots very closely for decades. So that's a little weird to me. I don't know why Bill is doing this. Maybe he just doesn't care because he's 73 and is. 

01:05:01 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Give me a picture. Jacob put that picture of her back up with him. That's why he's doing it, not that happy. 

01:05:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He said it in the interview he said, he said he's happy. He said he's happy, I'm married. 

01:05:15 - Flup (Co-host)
I'm married to a beautiful woman, so I. This does not even do anything for me, wouldn't you be happy? 

01:05:20 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
going out to that every day, jacob, I mean come on, let's be honest. 

01:05:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He's in his 70s. He's going to die in, literally. 

01:05:27 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I have a very attractive fiance who I'm very happy with he's going to die within 10 years probably. He's just trying to enjoy the rest of his life. 

01:05:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He says he's happy. 

01:05:35 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
That's how that matters, isn't it? 

01:05:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, you're, isn't it? You're right, we can still talk about it and make fun of him, but he's happy, he gets to do what he wants. I am curious as to how they met Me too. People have speculated it's an escort situation. 

01:05:52 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Can I give my thought on how I think they met? 

01:05:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's why I tried to intro this topic. 

01:05:58 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I believe Shirley, she was a high class escort. He was introduced to her probably through somebody else, and then they had the whole thing, like when a guy goes to a strip club he gets his stripper's number and thinks he's gonna date. Her bill actually did, I think, I think. I think she wooed him or he wooed her and it was. It was like the what's that Pretty Woman? I think that's the film. 

01:06:23 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Similar story. 

01:06:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, something else that was in the original tweet that I brought up here was the gorilla conversation, and this is still relevant, even today, and we did talk about this extensively, extensively, on the Tuesday episode. I took heat because I would die. 

01:06:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That had any sense. Is right here. 

01:06:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I lay. I said I'd lay juice on the a hundred humans. I got ridiculed. Uh, can this you agree with me? 

01:06:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That was all. A line of minus 10,000 is the worst line I've ever seen on any sporting events. Sporting event in quotations in my life, Hypothetically or not. 

01:07:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, Novik put it at $999 trillion minus $999 trillion, so not quite that bad. 

01:07:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
First of all, like people think, like this isn't, it's not like Godzilla, it's not like the movies A gorilla, it's like they're docile animals. There's no recorded case of a gorilla killing a human ever in history. I mean this is thinking that the gorilla is like, oh, that's like my aim. They're even saying like, oh, he's going to take his limb and be beating up. That's how a gorilla would fight. Wait, have you ever watched Animal Planet or any of those the gorilla acts? I mean, jacob, you are right, a hundred humans should be favored in that. I think even some wildlife experts came out and even in the last few and said, yeah, the humans would win. Now, if we're talking a couple of animals hippo, polar bear I think we're getting a little bit closer to a real fight here. Polar bear I think we're getting a little bit closer to a real fight here. The gorilla is a ridiculous example that's been just blown up by pop culture because people think gorillas are these city killers and stuff. 

01:08:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'll quickly correct. You recorded cases of a wild gorilla killing human, but there have been three, uh sorry. There have been documented gorilla killing humans in uh, not three, sorry, in uh, captivity, uh, but never a wild example. 

01:08:25 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
According to a very quick and brief by the way, not a gorilla, but travis the chimp. Can I interest you in that joey? You should look into that story. Uh, pretty interesting. I don't want to know now I. I don't know if I want to know either it's just like a chimp that was very house trained. 

01:08:45 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I remember this now that attacked a woman. It was like an old woman. 

01:08:50 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
He ingested Vicodin and went crazy. 

01:08:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
What if there was a hundred of them? Maybe it goes differently. 

01:08:58 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But I agree with this, I agree, you guys, right I agree, okay, flop. 

01:09:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
What do you think? 

01:09:02 - Flup (Co-host)
I think you're completely right, jacob. The hundred humans should be favorite here, maybe if it was like 30 or 25 the 18. 

01:09:10 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is why it's the 18 guys, maybe but like yeah, and I'm not saying that zero humans die, probably dozens would die every argument like well, when you see the first couple people get, have people been going to war for the entirety of human history? What happens? You see people die. Yes, if we're going and facing 100 gorillas and the choice, people are gonna die like you're going into it with that survival and just being like I'm gonna play dead. You can't play dead. That's not the point. You either go in like you're going to die or you beat the gorilla. 

01:09:42 - Flup (Co-host)
The worst was Rob tried to show AI agreeing with him, but the problem is you can change the tone of the AI prompt to get different answers, so like he's just cherry picking one that agrees with him, complete disengagement. 

01:09:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He's just cherry-picking one that agreed with him Complete disingenuous, and he quote-tweeted a video of a simulation which did not at all account for the fatigue which is the most important part. 

01:10:03 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Exactly, it's the fatigue and the perseverance of the simulation no, that's not what Very, very disingenuous Rob yes. 

01:10:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Every conversation I've had about this is like Donate the. 

01:10:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Gilbert, defense Fund. Every conversation this is like defense fund. Every conversation people say like, oh my god, uh, the first 30 people are toast, they're getting ripped apart. Yeah, there's still 70 left and the gorilla's already fucking exhausted. He hasn't even gone through half of them. Even if it is all the first 50. Half the people are left and the gorilla's fucking exhausted. My friend is like whenever he starts doing this is like whenever he starts doing this, like like this, he starts spinning and wiping everybody out his path. He'll be tired in five seconds. Like, even better, just get out of the way and he'll be, he'll be exhausted. We have more people left. 

01:10:47 - Flup (Co-host)
There's, there's, there's nothing that will convince me off of laying juice in the humans. Joey's a great point. Um, when, have, when has a gorilla taken? Like body parts and like use it as a weapon? 

01:11:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
it could, it could, but you're right, what would happen? It's strong enough to do that. But you're also right. I didn't think would it actually do that, probably not. So uh, yeah, you let us know the comments, all right what's the I? 

01:11:14 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I know we gotta move on. The strategy, though I think to win is just as many people as you can piles on the gorilla, and then you're like almost like suffocating it, right, like exactly. You get like 10 or because I mean gorilla even at its best like five, six hundred pounds. You get 10 people, 15 people to grab it, and then start piling on five five seconds. 

01:11:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Even like, way beyond, like a standard, like like an average would be like 370, 380 for a silverback, which is what we talked about. 

01:11:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, that to me. I don't even think it's a like, it's not even a debate and rob giving the worst line of all time, uh with that. So I mean I think if you go like, like I said, hippo or polar bear, then it's getting a little dicey as to like how we're actually going to like how are we going to kill a hippo? I don't even know, I can't even come up with a strategy. 

01:12:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, exactly Like pale blue polar bears are like some of those vicious animals, like unprompted yeah, yeah, right, like they're actually attacking humans. It's like what is this saying? Brown laid down black, fight back white. 

01:12:15 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Goodnight to the colors of Bears, yeah, yeah, all right, let's move on. 

01:12:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
We talked about misclicks, mispricing lines. We have another example of that happening here and this is a very, very long story. So allow me to give the full story of this one here. So it all started with the misclicks that were happening on the Miami Heat-Cleveland Cavaliers game four. Florida Arbor at the Florida Arbor said Cavs at plus 300 with laughing emojis because obviously a misprice. Here that Miami should have been the plus 300 team because they were the big underdogs. But Cavs were put at plus 300. Here the big buck hunter said as a Novig user, would you feel better about the platform if we voided this or let it stand? And we kind of talked about that earlier on in the show. So I don't need to dive quite back into that completely here. But the story goes a little bit further because Elf brought up an example of his friend and timestamper for the elf spaces at, bj covers, who accidentally bet his entire bankroll today on Miami at plus three 20. So correct price, but bet way too much money on this and wanted to bet on the Cleveland Cavaliers instead at minus three 20. It would have been more comfortable playing that. 

01:13:33
Now it is to my understanding that BJ Covers has a history with problem gaming and many people have talked about it and it was discussed in this. But it is my understanding that BJ Covers self-proclaimed has problem gaming issues. But it was a screenshot from Elf of a conversation they had over iMessage where BJ Covers said I tried doing Cavs and took fucking heat. Elf says, lmao, laughing my ass off, finds the humor in it and shows a screenshot of the wrong bet and then mentions that's like your whole bankroll, right. And BJ Covers says yes, I still got extra money in the bank, but my betting bankroll yes, I swear. 

01:14:12
I clicked calves minus 320 for a make order for like 2.2K. What's the plan? Let it ride? Minus 320 for a make order for like 2.2K. What's the plan? Let it ride or hedge for a loss? Bj Covers says I don't know what to do at this point. And then Elf says I'm going to tweet it out, but I'd hedge for a loss is my advice. 

01:14:28
Took Miami plus 320 and they were plus 365 at that point, so it took a really bad price on Miami. Elf did ask on Twitter what BJ Covers should do in this situation. Well, got picked up, sorry. Bj Covers also tweeted that, by the way. Tried placing a make order in Cavs minus 320. Took heat plus 320. I'm so pissed right now. What the fuck should I do, boys? Well, the game did not go to the way he wanted it is. I think it's funny that not only like was like. It's a little funny that it also wasn't a game and the Cleveland Cavaliers won 138 to 83. It was like 72, 28 in the second quarter, complete blowout from start to finish. Kirk Evans did not like people finding humor in this. 

01:15:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Did not like all the shitting on this. 

01:15:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Money bag yo at get to the window was finding light in the humor in the situation that I just was as well. Kirk Evans said and he's on the B team on Tuesday says yes, shitting on this guy for clout is a good way to go about this and also, in this thread, talked about the problem gaming issues that have been expressed for BJ Covers. Money Bag Yo says LOL, kirk, this man has had many, many people try to help him, including myself. He's helpless and I will never feel bad for someone who won't help themselves. I'm sure your circle back segment will be better though. Well, it's going to be our circle back segment. Actually, moneybag, unfortunately for you. But here's what I have to say on this. Maybe we shouldn't be dunking on a person with problem gaming. However, elf himself was laughing about it directly to the person and also on Twitter, used a laughing emoji, said Elmayo directly to be a cover. So even Elf, who said it is his friend, was laughing at his own friend in this scenario Okay, which makes me feel a little bit more comfortable about laughing myself and they literally exposed this for clout. Both Elf and BJ Covers tweeted this because they wanted fucking clout for this scenario. 

01:16:30
All of this could have easily been handled in private. Just arb out of it or hedge out of it for a loss. If it is that big, if it is that much exposure that you can't handle, just are bad of it and I hedge out of it for a loss. If it is that big, if it is that much exposure you can't handle, just hedge out of it for a loss. In private. This all would have been put to bed. Nobody would have ever known about it. But the fact that they raised this for clout elf himself was laughing about it makes me think that this is completely fine to discuss and um it just it's not the ironic is the right word. But the fact this happened and then the cavaliers completely stomped the heat like it was a hundred humans versus one gorilla does add a bit of humor to the situation. What do you think, flop? 

01:17:09 - Flup (Co-host)
yeah, I completely agree. I think a lot of things to break down here. The first is should this be voided? I think depends. Depends on, really, the user of who made it. Like bj covers should not get um voided like that's. That's ridiculous. The people that that got the uh cleveland plus 320 maybe, but it's it's and then so that's. 

01:17:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's one aspect. It wasn't a mistake line, it was a Right. So like yeah, misclick, we'll say Go ahead. 

01:17:43 - Flup (Co-host)
Exactly so. It was clearly like they meant to place the. They didn't mean to give. They clearly didn't mean to bet heat minus 320. They meant to bet the CAS minus 320. So I think it's fine to void, but totally fine if they don't. It's really up to their discretion at this point. But then also, kirk, talking about how dunking on Moneybagg Yo, I think that was a bit out of line because, like you said, jacob, clearly BJ and Elf wanted the clout, so it opens the door up for everyone. So I don't get where Kirk's coming from at that point. 

01:18:23
And as far as what BJ should do, well, the first thing he should do is uninstall Novig and every other gambling app and quit gambling and probably stop doing the Twitter thing. He should be getting off. He has a serious problem. But to Moneybag's point, many people have tried to help him and he's unwilling to get help. He wants to keep gambling. I've tried to say numerous things. I try to leave the spaces whenever he's on because I don't want to encourage it At this point, like if people are trying to help you and you don't want to be helped. Nothing we can do and only dunking on him at this point, like if people are trying to help you and you don't want to be helped. Nothing, nothing we can do, and only dunking on him at this point is probably fair game. 

01:19:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean it's. I was, that's where I was going to take it to with the BJ covers. That it feels a little, I don't know, gross that that kind of use. It's almost being used on the elf show as like a you show is like a, uh, you know, for the time stamping and for a little bit of a plot here, um, and then the guy's misclicking his entire bankroll, like he's got his entire bankroll at one book and he's putting it on like on the wrong side of things, uh, so again, it's a little bit cringe, uh, in that aspect of it. 

01:19:32
Um, but I, I don't know this is it's a weird, I don't we right? I know this is like the second we were going back on like should exchanges void, should they not? I don't know, it was also like the. When you see people like there was the florida arbor, there was another guy, they're like this is the greatest day of my life, like I found. So you know, miss that then. And then they've already like bet it out at another book on the other side and it's so it puts the exchange in a weird place, the user in a weird place. From like an unbiased you know unbiased quotations, you're like outside observer. There's a part of me that's like fuck that guy. Like you know, I'm saying like just boy, it is boy, it screw the guy. Um so, but again, in terms of like a business thing, what's the best way to do it? I think you can argue all day in terms of the bj covers. 

01:20:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I'm surprised you guys actually believe this. 

01:20:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Like you know, this is all that's you know what across my mind as well yeah, I'm gonna bring it up if it's, if it's even real, like you're, like knish said, like all your bankrolls in one book and you, we're gonna bet it all on one game. Like you need to be gone on the right side. 

01:20:43 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Like you're gonna put your entire bankroll in one game this is again and I do think elf is pretty smart with like foreshadowing what he's gonna do next or something. This gave him a whole show, right and in the business that he's in. Also, if you read bj's tweets, it's basically him tweeting like elf. Every time elf tweets it's an engagement farm tweet. What do we think boys? What do you think we should do next boys? What should I do boys? Like like elf, probably. 

01:21:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Really, it's like it's the exact same cadence, exact same style. 

01:21:17 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, that's why I had to wonder. This has to be bullshit. But I agree, I'm out on BJ. I'm tired of the whole. I'm not gambling anymore but I'm going to sit in gambling chats for hours on end. Any person with a true problem they recognize they have the, have the problem and they go get help with the problem and they don't, like I, always go back to the same correct. You know connection. Like you know, a crackhead doesn't get clean and then go hang out with crackheads and sell crack. 

01:21:47 - Flup (Co-host)
Like it's just, it's ridiculous it's like bj covers if you were an alcoholic spending every night at the bar at a bar, but ordering lemonade not. What are? 

01:21:58 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
we doing here, yeah, 100 yeah, look it problem. 

01:22:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Gaming is serious. I'll take it seriously. Like maybe just wants to continue to be involved, like whatever. Like fails to address the problem here, but like, if it was that big of a deal, number one, don't post it. 

01:22:15 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Number two clearly the obvious answer was just to hedge out of it and take a small loss but, jacob, let me ask you if, like, let's say, you stopped working for the hammer betting network, you stopped doing content, you went and got a job as a you know I don't know a police officer or something, I don't know, okay, would you? Would you spend time at every show and like and be like they're like a zookeeper? 

01:22:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
yeah, it's weird like would I continue to watch? 

01:22:41 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
like the content yeah, like I'm not saying you wouldn't watch the content, but like you wouldn't be there every, like you wouldn't be in like live chats every show and like I don't know. 

01:22:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It just feels like when you leave something you just leave, right, I mean well I if it was, if the hammer was like an addiction, I would probably like you know, that's right. I mean well, I if it was. If the hammer was like an addiction, I would probably like you know that's what I'm saying. 

01:23:00 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
It seems like dj has an addiction yeah, clearly, clearly he does. 

01:23:05 - Flup (Co-host)
This is why, like I've told elf before, like you shouldn't, he shouldn't be using him to his time step. That only promotes him to have more problems like stop using him, laughing at him, exactly. It's like what's like? What are we doing here? He can't. I think the reason he stays is because he can't quit, because, like you said, nadeau, he's addicted. That's why he can't quit it. 

01:23:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
And I think part of it is like there is a desire for clout. So, leaving this, you no longer have access to that clout. So it's yeah, the problems pile up there. 

01:23:37 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Folks, it's your boy, joey K from Hit the Books, the number one college football show in America, in all of North America my man, brad Powers, riding with the co-host, joey Kanish we want to see you this fall back with college football picks, plays. Get on that YouTube channel like subscribe, get the notis up. We'll be back this spring, this summer, this fall for all the college football content you can want. Joey K sent you there, baby, and come check us out on Hit the Books. 

01:24:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Let's move on, guys. Let's get to the chopping block, the little pieces here that didn't quite cut a full segment, but we have four things that have many segments here, starting off with Tyrese Halliburton's father. This one's not loading, but anyways, the gist of it is the Milwaukee Bucks, in very choking fashion, ended up losing game five to the Indiana Pacers. They were up 118-111 with 40 seconds left, ended up losing 119-118. Again, historical sort of choke. Near the end of the game and right after the game finished, the Pacers players jumped on the court in excitement about the win. And also jumping on the court in excitement of the win was Tyrese Halliburton's father, who walked on the floor turned around with a. 

01:24:57
Tyrese Halliburton's father, who walked on the floor, turned around with a Tyrese Halliburton banner, looks directly in my opinion based on these photos at Giannis and was seemingly gloating right in front of Giannis' face. Giannis obviously found this to be disrespectful and let him know it was disrespectful. But Tyrese Halliburton's dad said when I turned it might have seemed like I was looking at him, but I really wasn't. I was looking through him. He said, uh. Giannis said don't fucking disrespect me. Um, um, I don't know if you guys saw the videos. Maybe you did, but if not from the photos. You guys saw the videos? Maybe you did, but if not from the photos, kanish, you were kind of laughing there. 

01:25:40 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Do you think he's antagonizing you on this here? I did not see him say that quote. That's the lamest excuse. He's obviously taunting him trying to look hard. 

01:25:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He turned around to look through him. 

01:25:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, like I mean get the fuck off the court. Like I respect Tyrese for saying that, like that in the postgame, after my dad shouldn't have did that and all that stuff, but I mean that's clown behavior. The only thing I wish is that Giannis would have grabbed the towel from him and chokeslammed him or something on the court. 

01:26:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Giannis you can't get. Giannis is too good. Giannis doesn't have that snapping sort of thing. 

01:26:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, but to me you're a fan. Some of these family members that think they're like John Moran's dad and all that, they think they're on the team and they're just like that. Get it, Dick. I don't know, I saw it today. They're not going to let him stick courtside anymore. So, yeah, don't be like you're not. 

01:26:27 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
it's not about you when you're trying to make it like it's such a historical moment to come back. Winning a playoff series is always an achievement, and to do it in that fashion is so incredible, for like a player's biggest moment of his life and you're trying to be the main character for the player's father to take that moment away, not just from Tyrese Halbert, who now can't celebrate the win, has to deal with this bullshit, but from like this is the story, more so than the rest of the team. 

01:26:52 - Flup (Co-host)
This, yeah, inexcusable behavior yeah, if you, if he's went over to celebrate with his son, no issue. Yeah, well, he is taunting the opposing team, acting like he's part of the team. Yeah, okay, calm down. 

01:27:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, you deserve the repercussions that that come with that. Um, we'll move to the next topic here. Uh, topic on the savannah bananas, who sold out all 81,000 tickets for their game tonight in Clemson's football stadium. It's the team's largest audience ever and the second football stadium they've sold out this year. So for me, for anyone who doesn't know, because I didn't know until last year, this even existed. But the Savannah Bananas are kind of like the Harlem Globetrotters, if you will, of baseball. They put on events or they play a game, but it's very showboaty and it's supposed to be entertainment. But I say supposed, like I, I look at like the videos. It's like I don't know about you guys. Would you guys ever pay to go see something like? Would you like? 

01:27:51 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
no, see something like this. No, but I can understand why it's popular, you know, for kids and things like that. Um, you know, like I remember when I was, I remember when I was a kid, um, I was obsessed. I fell in love with basketball through the and one mixtape tour. You guys remember that. Oh yeah, yeah, not real basketball, but it was fucking awesome like it was like hip-hop and like it was dope it was awesome? 

01:28:17
yeah, no, it was yeah, but then they started like saying like those guys probably could get to the nba if they wanted, and it's like well, no, they can't that uh actually like a few did right, even jake jacob does I. 

01:28:30
I should be on the boardroom here now, but I remember the second time today I got him on a nba reference but I remember people said like you know, you know that's not robust when it's like, yeah, but it's fucking awesome, like it's good for kids and stuff. That's impressive, that they I mean what 80 000 people? I mean that's amazing. 

01:28:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Marketing and promotion, that's wild I will say I'd rather have dinner with moretto and jason for uh or be stuck in like a room with them for four hours, then go see a Savannah bananas game. But we just don't. I mean, if that's what you want to do, you want to take your kids and I don't care. 

01:29:05 - Flup (Co-host)
The problem is how many sports betters have like kids. Not not many from what I can see. I think you hit the nail on the head. 

01:29:12 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Most are actually virgins. 

01:29:14 - Flup (Co-host)
Actually you hit, most are actually virgins. Actually you hit the nail on the head here. This is, this is a family kind of thing. So people like us not, we don't have families yet. 

01:29:22 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Not really interested it is so cringed like I maybe I'm old guy now, but I like I've seen some of this, like you know stuff on like highlights okay okay, hold on a second again. 

01:29:35 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
This is the same thought I have on wrestling. If you're a grown man at wrestling matches you're a fucking goof. Why are you watching wrestling? You're a grown man, it's fake, it ain't real. 

01:29:49 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I think wrestling's a different tier of entertainment. I will say some of the women's wrestling is I mean depending on what you're into can be rather entertaining. 

01:29:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Don't get in trouble again. 

01:30:03 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean, I'm not into any of that. You know I'm a very platonic, but could be. 

01:30:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right. Next topic here, two more to go. We have a screenshot. As always when there's a bad line posted, posted. People like to clown on the sports book. Uh, j biggs at j biggs dfs says fandel can't be serious. This one plus 5 000 with a bunch of laughing emojis. And it's a bet, travis hunter to win offensive rookie of the year and defensive rookie of the year plus 5 000. Uh, we'll start with you, flup on this. Obviously it's a bad price. We know that. How do you feel about sportsbooks? 

01:30:42 - Flup (Co-host)
doing this. This is more promotional, so that people can talk about it. If you don't like the line, just don't bet it. You're not forced to bet it, it's fun. They wanted to put something out and they didn't want to have to think about a price, so they just put a shitty price out there. So obviously I would take, I would lay 100 to 1. Like this doesn't happen, I would lay 100 to 1 on the no. So obviously Fando is fine with taking this number. But now it creates a bunch of free content. People can talk about it. That's why it's out there. It makes a lot of sense from Fando's point of view. Just don't bet it if you don't like it, but it's fun to talk about and think about. 

01:31:18 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This was the exact thing they did with the Cavs to go undefeated when they were like 20-0 or something. It was like 100-1 or something, and it's one of those things that probably should be like 100,000-1 or something of that nature. Again, my only gripe with it would be like, maybe make like I don't get, and obviously it's working right, because what do they want? They want content from it. What are we talking about in the show right now? We're talking about the fucking bet. So that's what that? But like, make a price that, like you know, I don't know, it's maybe a little fun to throw, like if it's 200 to one or 250 to one, but like 50 to one is so yeah. 

01:31:59
Like Fluff. What number do you need just off your head to bet? 

01:32:05 - Flup (Co-host)
the yes on that 500. That's when I start thinking about it. 

01:32:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
500 to one, yeah, right, like 500 is even like where you're thinking I'm going to make a small wager Like 1,000 to one or something. It's like maybe you have some like small value or something or more yeah for for stuff like this. 

01:32:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Uh, crook evans would like to say this is how they make their money. People will bet it and they they need to make money for people who win to be able to profit off of these sports books. I don't quite agree to like to that full extent, but I, I there are people who are gonna bet this. But I would say, yeah, don't bet it. But also I agree with you, knish, where it's, like you know, could you give it like maybe a little bit better odds. College bro dunks, like you know, five bucks on. Yeah, have a bit more of a sweat. You're still getting a plus TV position as FanDuel. So, yeah, I agree on that. 

01:33:02
Last one. Everyone was I think everyone in the cast was thinking about talking about this one. Yeah, it is Amanda Vance who came out and finally addressed the alcohol and drinking and all the allegations that have been put forth against her. I'll read out the tweet. It says time to address this. Finally, amanda Vance. By the way, pick seller Amanda wins this website, who we have concluded is very, very, very, very, very likely a losing bettor who sells picks. Anyways, time to address this. 

01:33:32
Finally, I love to have a beer or a glass of wine, but I't have a problem. It's been taken advantage of by other platforms for use of content, so I just want to clear the air, and this is this comes from. Many like photos and videos were consistently having alcohol. There were segments of elf spaces which she could not appear on because she was too intoxicated to appear. This is where all this stems from. As a sports fan, there's nothing better than drinking and watching games. Fun fact about me is I've met several of these people from twitter in person and they've been. Uh, they've tried getting me to take a shot, but I don't actually even drink liquor. I make sports content. A beer in hand is on brand, but I'm super okay and if you believe it's anything more, you took the bait bait. I'm a casual drinker, nothing more. Kanish, you're laughing a little bit here. What did you make of this post? 

01:34:20 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Maybe I took the bait, because I've seen her at a few events where nobody else is drinking. There's a boxing event, no one else is having a drink and she's double-fitting her like at a table. Yeah, there was like one photo. 

01:34:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
There was one photo. They were at a boardroom. They were in Vegas. 

01:34:35 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It was a boardroom table. It seemed like pretty early in the morning she had a. 

01:34:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Miller light in front of her. It was a bad look, yeah. 

01:34:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean, listen, maybe I've made a couple jokes about her drinking on Twitter. Maybe a bit, potentially, do I think she's got a serious problem or any of that? Probably not. I do think it's a little bit more than maybe a casual. A little bit more than a casual. But yeah, I don't know if I'm totally buying it. 

01:35:07 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, generally, when you have a problem, you don't think you have a problem and you need people to sit you down and say, hey, you have a problem, you need to do something. 

01:35:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
There are people who don't have problems, who say they don't have problems. Though Just because you say you don't have them doesn't mean you necessarily do. 

01:35:23 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
And again, I think she is in terms of, like, she doesn't drink liquor, which I guess it makes it a little bit better. That said, we have a lot of proof that, as you guys just talked about, she does drink a lot. Look, as you guys just talked about, she does drink a lot, you know. And look, I also don't like that. I think she has been exploited, probably, but I think she was involved in being exposed. She got something out of that too. In the end, her, her persona went up by being connected to that. So, so everybody made out do I think she was actually drunk, where she couldn't do that interview. No, I think she just said, hey, pretend I'm drunk, so I don't have to do this, and that's what they did. Um, do I think she has a problem? How old is she? What she's? 

01:36:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
in her 20s. Look if she's 35 and still doing this. 

01:36:08 - Flup (Co-host)
Maybe she has a problem. Anything to add from you? Flip nope that I mean. I don't really drink so I don't get the appeal of it. So she wants to go for it as long as it's not a problem, I guess I. 

01:36:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't think anybody legitimately was bringing it up as if they actually thought it was a drinking problem. I wouldn't say it was lighthearted. It was like the intent was to put it down, make fun of her. But I don't think at least I don't think any of us genuinely thought there was a drinking problem, genuinely thought there was a drinking problem. But after all, this time she did address it. So we'll just have to see if anything does change in the future. But that is it for today on Circle Back with the A-Team. If you did enjoy this episode, make sure you do smash that like button. Like I said earlier, it goes a humongous way towards joining the channel. Also, subscribe to help us on our road to 20,000 subscribers. If you're listening in audio form, rate and review 5 stars and make sure you're following along on social media at CirclesOffHQ for even more content. And we'll be back next week on the Tuesday show here on Circles Off. We'll see you next time.