00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back episode number 21 right here on the circles off youtube channel presented by underdog. Before we get into it looked at last week's episode. Still 50 of you out there are not subbed on this channel. Make sure you you do hit that subscribe below and if you can give us a pre-like this week, that goes a long way as well to helping in the YouTube algorithm. But a lot of you have been pining for more guests, more guest interviews got another one coming up on Thursday dropping on the channel as well but help me get the biggest name guests in the space. To do that, as many subs as possible are required. They look through the channel and ultimately it'll help me land those big-name guests. So please subscribe to the channel. 

01:33
Kirk Evans to my left, jeff Feinberg, jacob Gromenia producing today we got a jam-packed show. We're going to start with a video that dropped this week on the More Perfect Union account. The tweet says New DraftKings and and fan will have changed sports betting and made it much worse for you. The odds are worse than ever, the enticements to lose more money are aggressive and if you win too much they'll cut you off. Isaac rose berman appeared in this video. He sat in this seat left to the left of me in one of the earliest episodes that we did here of circle back as well, and he he was included in this, as was Dave Hill, who was kind of like the host of it. I think maybe you produced it as well. I don't know Dave Hill too well personally, but I hear a lot of good things about him Overall. 

02:14
Just a quick summary. It's a 25-minute video. We will post the link down in the description below, but for those who are listening and they haven't seen this yet, a quick, quick summary. The video delves into the evolution of sports betting in america, highlighting the shift from traditional sports books in las vegas to the current landscape dominated by online platforms like draft kings and fan duel. The video also discusses the aggressive marketing tactics aimed at young men, the dangers of same game parlays and how sports books profit disproportionately from these difficult to win bets. There's an examination of how winning bettors are often banned or heavily restricted which we've and how sportsbooks profit disproportionately from these difficult-to-win bets. There's an examination of how winning bettors are often banned or heavily restricted, which we've talked about on the show before. Additionally, the video draws parallels between the sports betting industry and other industries like alcohol and tobacco, suggesting that similar regulatory measures might be needed. And then it ends off talking about the move towards online casinos, which are iGaming, as a more profitable venture and you know the broader impacts of that on society as we head forwards. 

03:13
Personally, I watched it. I thought it was a pretty smooth, easy watch. It's like. This is how things historically have been done. This is how they're changing now. Not a lot of knowledge that someone like me is going to gain. I don't mean to sound like egotistical, but I know a lot about the space, but I think to get stuff like this out there, I thought it was pretty thought provoking and some people who are maybe in the more casual, better demographic there's probably a lot of things in here that they are not even really privy to in their day-to-day life. That might be a little bit more eye-opening for them. 

03:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm not sure that was exactly my take. I thought it was like a bit of a mixed bag. Like I thought there were a bunch of stuff in there that was good, especially highlighting the bad advertisement practices and how much these sports books rely on, like essentially the big losers. I thought Isaac actually did a really good job, but like I thought it was a bit vague as kind of what they thought solutions were. They didn't really say anything like I think the video ended with them kind of implying that like books, like circa, are the solution, which I don't really think is true. 

04:18
As much as I like and respect circa and I also and we got into it last week, we don't need to get into it again. But I think talking about like the banning yeah, like if you're talking about a factor of problems people being addicted to gambling and losing all their money is just like a hundred x, the factor of like sportsbook banning, and they kind of equated them, or maybe they didn't equate them, but it didn't seem like they really put them on a different scale, of which one's more important. I don't mind putting banning as a topic in this video because I think a lot of people don't know about it. Yeah, so I think that's good, but I thought it was kind of a mixed bag your whole thing on the banning goes to. 

04:59 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You have like a whole resource of beards that you can like rely on in a system and an infrastructure technically I cannot admit to that publicly no you have like, okay, we can get into that that you have like almost we almost built like the banning. 

05:13
It's like I'm in line to use the. I won't go to the big box because I feel like those are disingenuous when I like use big box stores as uh points. I realize that there are many ways it's a disingenuous argument, but it's like I'm at the bank and I just want to use the bank right, withdraw a few bucks and then I freeze. I'm not wearing, I don't have a gun out, I'm not wearing a ski mask, and then I freeze on the ground Like it's unacceptable. It's unacceptable Like you don't know who's a bank robber. I've won zero dollars. I'm not robbing your bank. 

05:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, but okay, I don't think, because you made that point in a lot of people's comments where that me and Rob are coming off from this position of we have out. Oh, you're too pro-book, you are too pro-book and even in Ontario there are a lot of books available to us that aren't available worldwide, nationwide, whatever. But that is not my opinion. My opinion is that the books and the businesses are there to make money. They're allowed to do whatever they want and they can. Yeah, exactly. 

06:19 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like I just said, my opinion is the Dodgers aren't breaking any rules. Yes, exactly. And Because, in my opinion, the Dodgers aren't breaking any rules, yes, exactly, they're not breaking any rules. 

06:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And if we want to, argue about it, then let's argue about the regulations and the laws, but the sports books are doing what they should do, okay that's a fair take, you're right, but my point is they advertise during, there is like a consumer contract. 

06:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
When you advertise during the sorts of things they advertise in, there's just like a an innate social contract. When you're advertising during NFL football, the mass, like these, I mean, they advertise during fucking everything. But I'm just saying a social contract exists when you are part of the commercial lineup that includes Chevy, mcdonald's, the like, there is just you are part of that, part of it and there's a social contract that they are being completely disingenuous about. In my opinion. 

07:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I agree with you that a lot of the advertisements are predatory and bad and that's like a very legitimate right are predatory and bad and that's like a very legitimate right. 

07:27 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
We are on like the ground. We're way past the ground floor of this being america's next fentanyl crisis. In my opinion, it's going to end horribly, as I said many times, with many people being dragged in front of congress who's probably equally useless when you see how they haven't even gotten a grip on social media. Yeah, that is like destroying our children before they're even gambling age. So they've let that go without any sort of like being able to figure it out. I have no confidence that there'll be any ability to do this, but it is just, um, I liked this, let's, I thought, which hit the hardest, which is clear and which is you know, but it's when you hear it and it's a reminder. There's one objective Banned or broke. 

08:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, yes, I agree with that. 

08:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Banned or broke, and that was my takeaway from this and that's what I think a lot of people who are unaware of some of the practices that was. You know, that was the slogan that I left ringing in my head. 

08:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

08:27 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And it's just so like not the state of the industry, because there's still ways the professionals can crush it. But it was just such a demoralizing video hearing clips from the conference calls and the shareholder meetings, I mean from the books. So I have some notes. 

08:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
One thing that really stood out to me. I don't actually know what the goal of this video was. Honestly, I think there's so many different things you could take away from it. 

08:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It is just like a state of the industry, just eye-opening to the public who aren't you Right. 

08:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So for me one of the big things here was marketing and misrepresentation. Right, the whole notion of putting stuff on screen on TVs everywhere, of like you could be this big winner type of scenario, but then limiting the people who are big winners Like that to me has always been a fundamental problem. It is false advertising. 

09:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
A hundred percent. 

09:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's like you can win this much money betting at this sports book but you really can't like. If you show any any like jeff, you've talked about this before right, you will literally get limited. For line shopping you find the best price in market. You might not even be a winning golf better, but you just say you know what, fuck, instead of getting 75 to 1 here, I'd rather get 125 to 1 here. That's a great price. You go bet it there. Your account is limited Like. That is fucking horseshit. 

09:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm not even doing your level of line shopping where you probably have like 13 books. I got like four books. I shouldn't say that I got a lot of books. I'm just an aware consumer. The same way you're an aware consumer when I got to buy a toy for my daughter. I'm going to look at like three sites and find who's got it cheaper. I'm ordering it to my house anyway on my phone, even if it's saving $4 to me to search three websites. Being proficient at the internet, it takes one minute and I make a decision. Takes one minute, yeah, and I make a decision. And then for that, just like in sports betting, it's like you're advertising back to back. You're advertising on the same games. We all know. You exist to disrespect me as a consumer because I'm taking the best line between the four books. Who come advertise on tv. Yeah, TV is fucking criminal. 

10:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I think I totally agree with the advertisement practices and I feel like I'm getting into a lot of what I'm going to write about for Kirk's Hammer this week, because this is the topic. I agree with the advertisement practices. I think it should be stopped to advertise like come win at our sports book. That should not be allowed. It's just the limiting practices that we disagree with. And then also, I don't disagree at all about like I don't know if I agree or disagree that's the next fentanyl, but obviously it's going to be a massive problem. 

11:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's a big problem. I'm using hyperbole there. I want to roll that in a little, because that's like a hyper extreme. 

11:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But if we're there, I don't think anyone is that surprised. Yeah, but my point was more that, like this video highlighted limiting bettors and trying to get like people addicted to gambling, and to me, just getting people addicted to gambling is a factor of a worse 1,000, worse, 10,000, worse than limiting Love, Isaac and he also, something that still resonates. 

11:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's not. It's like at the liquor store. I'll go every other weekend get a bottle, like having some buddies over. Yeah, that's like your friend betting his favorite team on Sunday. Yeah, that is like the sports books. It's just the guy. That's like living there. That's like spending every cent he has. 

12:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, well, to Isaac's point, which I thought was really they make all their money off of this. 

12:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like that's. It might be a small percentage, yeah, but their whole margin comes from like destroying lives, not nickel and diming me and the millions of people like me. 

12:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah. 

12:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Destroying lives of certain people, I think one of the biggest things is just the access to your phone. 

12:36
Absolutely, and your email address Because Isaac brought this up and I think it's a very valid point that he brought up in this mini-doc was that if know, if I go buy liquor or something like that and I go two or three days a week, I you know, that's it. I I'm making the conscious choice to go get and obviously alcohol, alcoholism exists and like that can be a problem, but they don't have act, they're not messaging and be like hey, isaac, you haven't bought your liquor yet today. Well, here's a 10 you know discount for for today and whatever. Like that just doesn't happen in the sports betting space. Like you, you'll get these as well. 

13:09
They I die of laughter when I get them. But I'm limited at so many books and I still get like crazy deposit offers via email and stuff like that. I'm like why am I gonna ever do that? It's just like this mass push to like this person hasn't been on the site for three days, for seven days. You know, let's get a more aggressive with the offers, and it's the amount of touch points are like are, are actually yeah, the fact that it's addictive and on your phone is is a massive problem yeah, the offers. 

13:34 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like I show you, rob, like I'll bring you out this summer, we'll go golfing. I'll bring over a couple buddies, they'll they'll have a contest with each other who could show you the craziest vip email? Yeah, the craziest vip offer. Yeah, what do you think rob would think of this? I'd be like a rob would like never get that because he's been kicked off by now. Well, or rob would see that email and like want to pay for your um, primed, hyper-primed accounts. But it is just predatory. 

14:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's an understatement for what is happening right now. What do you think about the discourse around same-game parlays? Okay, so I was very wrong about same-game parlays because when they first came into when FanDuel, draftkings, all these sites first started offering them, the hold was like insanely high on this relative to another bet type. Right, and I don't want to quote numbers. But we're looking at like three times plus the hold on SGPs versus a straight bet and my theory was, over time, you're going to lose so many of these Like betting is not really that fun when you're losing. To lose so many of these Like betting is not really that fun when you're losing this consistently relative to straight bets. That was completely wrong. People love SGPs. They bet them more than ever. The idea of winning like a lottery ticket is huge for these people altogether. But I sat at home this week and I was really thinking about this more because there's a lot of discourse around. 

15:04
Sgps are harmful for bettors and I think about my old bet habits when I was younger, when I was a degenerate gambler for lack of a better term losing all the time, I was mostly betting straights. Well, I started by betting some parlays and stuff like that, but eventually, when I was losing, people were like, oh, you're betting too much, like too many parlays and this and that bet straights. Okay, so I'm betting straights, I'm still losing because I don't have an edge and I'm playing a lot of volume. And then it gets to Sunday and I know that you know my figure on my PPH, my paper head account, you know ends at Sunday and if I'm up I collect the next week. If I'm down, I got to pay an envelope the next week. 

15:43
So every Sunday when I was down, guess what was happening? I'm trying to win it back. So usually let's say I'm like a 17 year old kid I'm down 500 bucks. What am I going to do on a Sunday? I'm going to bet to win 500 bucks, usually on another straight bet, because it's like, okay, I just have, like this, one bet that can come through and before you know it you're down a thousand. Whereas with the SGPs the bet sizes are so small, generally speaking, that, yes, they're like an addictive product. But how many people are chasing like huge losses by placing thousand dollar SGPs and stuff like that? I have to feel like that's a big like to me. This is a very mass market product. That, yeah, while there are some elements of elements maybe it's just like the gateway drug maybe that could be a good argument defending it, but like the way you describe it. 

16:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like the way people talk about you know, marijuana and much like gambling. I hate, as someone that is a, a recreational smoker and a gambler. Both have been regulated in in this province in like a very similar time frame. I think they both fucking suck regulated. 

16:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But I disagree with you. Okay, One, because you can fire in so many SGPs, but two, okay. So you bet $500 to cover that, your balance for the week. Right, that $500 bet, the actual assuming no edge either way the actual EV is negative 25 bucks. Sure, roughly, yeah, if I was going to yeah. 

17:13
On a $50 SGP. You can easily have, you know, negative 35, negative 40 EV. You can just lose money so much faster with them and it's not like like there are endless SGPs you could have. Okay, you know, you bet an SGP on the seven o'clock NBA game. You lose that. Okay, but now I'm going to fire one in for the eight 30 slate, then the 10 o'clock Sunday Okay, every game I won an SGP. Okay, we lost in the one o'clock slate. Now let's fire it back for the 4 o'clock is late. So, yes, you might not lose a lot of money incredibly quickly, but you're going to pretty much every dollar you're betting is going to lose. And then you're also. You can just keep firing, keep firing, keep firing. But like I don't know, I'm not saying I don't like SGPs as a product. I think they're good as a product, but I think they're still predatory. 

18:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I didn't need to win it all back on the PPH, just enough, so I know he's not going to bug me for that Maybe he'll roll it over into the next week. 

18:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We don't have to meet up at the McDonald's parking lot. 

18:15 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
We're of. You know we have enough respect for each other. We're not meaning for that. 

18:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, I don't know it's. It's tough for me because I I think, like you know, I I have obviously at points in life, lost a lot of money in very short spans where it's crippling. And I wonder if you just even if I lost more money but I extended it over a longer period of time, it would have done much, much less damage to my life as a whole? Um, and that's not. Listen, there's obviously always a percentage of people that they just have a problem like I'm sure there's people betting thousands of dollars on sgps if you're a vip, I'm sure it happens, and that's part of the video as well which is just like preying on these types of people. I totally get that. 

18:56
But from a bet type, like first and foremost, I'm a big believer in product and and like SGPs are fun as shit, so fun Like they really enhance the entertainment experience. It's made the products themselves better. Like these. I think back to when I used to bet on like five dimes and I had to navigate some of these offshore products where, like the prop list was like loaded infinitely and you're just scrolling and sometimes you control F and they misspelled like someone's last name and you're like where the fuck is this guy Like those were relative to what we have now. It's night and day, so okay. 

19:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
For all of the problems that they're causing. I can thank them for an easier user interface Credit. I'll give them credit, you're not wrong, rob. Like the interface, some of the technology on some of these sites, those apps they're fantastic Listen. 

19:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't want to. I'm not dismissing like the rest of it. 

19:55
I don't want it to come across like I don't want the comments of like I'm in bed with the books like Kirk last week. I'm not, I just like to think about it from all perspectives. Last week, you know that I I'm not. I just like to think about it from all perspectives because for every player that's being harmed by this, you know there's a lot of people that are actually enjoying the experience and that are gambling comfortably. Can it potentially do a ton of damage down the road? Absolutely, I've been there before. I get it, but like there's probably other solutions that are in place, that that could be put into place that aren't just like get rid of sgps there's other solutions that could be put in place to limit the damage that could be done in the long run. 

20:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You uh, you raised the red flag with me with uh, what you said about sgps there, rob, because you said like when you, at the end of the week, you'd make a 500 bet to try and win your money back. If you do that, you would notice right away you made a mistake and you would hopefully learn from that a lot quicker than an SGP every week where you're prolonging that which is unnoticeable over time and it's more justifiable to lose a little bit, a little bit over time, rather than having that big one. That like obviously it's bad on both sides. But if you're not even noticing you're making these bad bets and you're losing money, I think that could be even worse, that you're just slowly losing bets over time, these SGBs you're not even noticing because it's just so gradual. I think that adds to kind of how bad. 

21:14 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They're all bad, but the way Rob is saying is I'm down a great. Like when you could get down so much, doubling up your smart bet, that you now are sleeping uncomfortably or you don't feel great, as opposed to losing so little incrementally that your state of mind is better. 

21:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Can we just agree on the fact that let's say no products had SGPs anymore? That would make the betting products worse. Can we agree on that? Yeah, for sure. 

21:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Their interfaces would be worse. What do Like? Their interfaces would be worse. What do you mean? The products would be worse. You don't have the option for SGPs. Now that we have, SGPs. 

21:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If you were to remove SGPs from every, it would be a worse betting. 

21:53 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It would be so horrible if they remove that panel from the TV shows. Sgp from the front page, that's a different story altogether. 

22:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm not talking about that, that's different. All right, like that. That. That's like okay, charles Barkley is going to give me an SGP. Like you know, I don't stand for that. But the product itself is different. So to me it's like figure out a solution that isn't just like, well, the hold is too high, high on this, let's stop offering it. I mean, maybe it could be. The simple solution could be um from a regulatory level. You know, you can offer a max hold of x, y, z in these markets yeah, I don't know, I I just maybe I'm cynical. 

22:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't think there is a solution. This, this industry, is there are winners and then there's like 10, 15 betters and those two kind of cover each other. And then there's like $10, $15 bettors and those two kind of cover each other and then they make the money from the addicts. That's just what it is. If you look at the even, just look at, like the income statements, or I remember there was a report that came out recently of of where the sports books make money, like that's just what it is, and maybe I'm just like. 

22:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
so maybe that's the salute, but like what's the solution? But what's? 

23:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
the solution. There is no solution. 

23:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, the solution is harder responsible gaming efforts into VIP programs More oversight into VIP programs. 

23:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The solution is like the nut low the marketing has to stop in the same way and hopefully they just catch on quicker than with the alcohol and tobacco. 

23:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah. 

23:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Because in our life that just stopped, it just stopped, it just stopped and you know it exists. You know it exists. You're 18 years old, you're 15 years old. You know the cigarettes exist. You know that the liquor stores sell. You see it at the gas stations and at the Targets, what have you? But it's just not thrown in front of your face Like when you're there at the store. Thrown in front of your face Like when you're there at the store. You know it's there, but it's just not thrown in front of your face. 

23:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I think we all agree on that. 

23:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But that's just like the nut low, nut low, I agree, and they got to start there and he's not wrong. Like it's an ecosystem, for sure, guys got to win. Like people have to lose their shirt for people to be able to pay for their family to go to disneyland because they want some bets but I've worked on the other side of the counter before right and I've seen this and, like kirk brings up a very valid point. 

24:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But you know there are. There's a difference between an addict maybe addict isn't the right word, but someone who, who, like, cannot gamble at the levels that they can where it's crippling and someone who knows what they're doing and they don't care. Like you know, I've worked for for offshores before where they would have like X NHL players in the VIP program and these people accrued, like you know, 20 million plus in career earnings and stuff like that, and they're very much aware and you could go to them and be like, sir, you know, you've lost seventy five thousand dollars in the last three months and they're like I don't give a shit, I love to play online slots and I'm gonna keep doing it. To me there's not like that's different than the guy who's like you know, maybe wasn't someone who, but they were betting like five hundred dollars a day on casino and you went to them and said, well, we can give you this bonus. And then that jacked it up why can't I agree? 

25:07 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
maybe they should be as aggressive on that end as they are with fucking having, you know, mugging me in line at the. 

25:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Exactly that's the way it should, but that's a regulatory failure. So when? 

25:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
you're yes, but the reg, but the regulators are fucking useless yes anyone has ever dealt with a regulator in the gambling space. They don't do fucking anything. 

25:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And then sometimes a guy who is like a buddy of mine. Like you said, they're not ex-NHL players, they don't have that kind of money, but they know they're losing. You know they're happy they're doing it somewhat responsibly, like in quotations, but responsibly. They're getting biweekly checks. They can afford it. How do you put it If they got banned because they were going a little too hard for the same quick ban that I get for making four straight accidental sharp bets that I don't even know? My favorite team that I bet on Wednesday is now a sharp bet. Yeah, I know it's tough. The end of this video focused on iGaming and I don't even know my favorite team that I bet on. 

26:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Wednesday is now a sharp bet. Yeah, yeah. 

26:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yep, I know it's tough. 

26:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
The end of this video focused on iGaming. To me, that's going to be like that's already. You know, a friend of mine sent me a message that one of his teenage daughters sent to him in previous week about how one of her friends won a huge amount of money playing a slot machine online and that she only put in like 200 bucks or something like that, and it was a big amount. And his daughter was like I want, I want to do the same. Can you sign up and like we're going to get into those types of areas? Right for sure, and you know I gaming is another level and I've experienced this myself as well, like being on the sportsbook side. Okay, your sports player is worth x amount of dollars. Your casino player is always worth more way. Multi-product is worth the most, but casino is way more so at some point, you know you supplement all these taxes that you're paying, um, and the fact that, listen, it's really hard to turn a profit because draft kings, fan duel, have like a monopoly on the industry, basically, and you start driving people to casino. That's a real problem because I have literally worked with companies offshore that would publish their return to player. So, for those that don't know. 

27:20
Every casino game has a built-in house edge, right, blackjack, blackjack has its house edge, roulette, whatever Slot machines can be very different depending on the site, whether they're progressive or whatever, literally published the return to player on these machines. It did not change player behavior altogether. So, like somebody might've played the worst possible slots they could play online, from a return to player perspective, the highest hold for the sports book, and they don't give a shit because they add they like the mini game in that slot. They're like I don't care, you know you're gonna hold nine, nine cents of every dollar that I put in. I'd rather do that and play this mini game than you hold one cent on this one where it's just a much smaller. So like you're getting into, like adding the financial element with the experience that comes with gambling, and to me you talk about the fentanyl stuff. 

28:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Igaming is fentanyl. I might have been hyperbole with whatever. Before I can own that, I will die on the hill. It is the worst, it is the scariest, it is dangerous. I am blessed, rob, in more ways than one, but for someone with an addictive personality, oh the Lord. The Lord passing over me and, like me, no interest. I never even had to learn a tough eye gaming lesson from go. I didn't give a shit. I knew this was, like rat, the worst thing on earth On earth. I'm so blessed that for all the things I am addicted to, that didn't even touch me. 

28:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, I mean, I see it from friends. So I talked about how I used to chase when I was younger, which was just like whatever the Sunday night football game or late night Sunday NBA. Younger which was just like whatever the sunday night football game or you know, late night sunday nba. Um, you know what I see my friends chase nowadays? It's like, okay, they put in a 500 deposit into a sports book. They lost 450. They're gonna take the 50 into the casino and play like slots, or they're gonna play roulette or something like that, and then they're gonna lose that. But they've. They've now had a pretty decent experience. You get adrenaline from playing online casino. And then it's like, well, you know what? 

29:26
I'm sure the interface is outstanding and that to me, I think, was a. I don't know if they're going to be doing more of these or whatever, but that really caught me as, like that's the next phase of the sportsbook. Stuff is bad. Casino is just like on another level completely, absolutely, completely. 

29:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
If you want to get in your car here, rob like we got to drive what like an hour to go play some cards, maybe uh, now we could play at woodbine, so it's for me. 

29:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's 10 minutes from my house, although like look at the hold in that casino as well, yeah, those poker tables are nuts but, yeah, that back in the day. Just do that in person. You know I'd drive to port perry my dad would be like what are these 407 bills like? For those that don't know, it's like the pay highway. 

30:08
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31:40
All right, um, we've covered that. We've covered pick selling a lot, but I do want to bring it up one more time because I haven't actually contributed my opinion at all on any of this stuff. Um, spanky tweeted anyone selling picks is unable to win betting on their own and must rely on extracting guaranteed subscriber fees from you. The better Winning bettors extract money from bookmakers by betting for a living. Losing bettors extract money from fellow bettors by selling for a living. Now, I was wondering where this came from. It was like right after Fezzik tweeted um, something about this being like this whole notion being bs, and this has been Spanky's take for a while now. He joins the spaces every night, he comes on, he says this, he repeats it. But uh, jacob, if we could get the Fezzik tweet here really quickly. Um, steve Fezzik said fuck what the naysayers say, I am getting slash buying and listed a bunch of people that he would buy picks from. All of these guys will help you win money. The only question is whether it would be worth paying for the info. Some of these guys are free slash. Some give out free content. Fuck anyone who would say their opinion is not worth a dime. 

32:55
And then we got the reactions from people in the space, and there were a ton of them. Connor Allen was talking about Spanky, blanket generalizations. Yawn, yawn, yawn. Josh reads respect Spanky, but this narrative is getting exhausting. You can provide a service, you absolutely can, and you should charge for it. Matt Williams, I think you're a bit too close-minded here. Did it ever occur to you that a winning better would be foolish not to do both? There's absolutely no downside to doing both. One make bets, make money to help others make money, make money, more money for little effort. Um it's. I am a little bit tired of this discourse, but it's going to exist forever in this space, so people need to know that like this is always going to be a topic of conversation and I think it's a bit different when it's spanky making the tweets, but I have a lot of opinions on this. 

33:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
One, reading that spanky tweet brings a smile to my face. I think it's so funny. Two, it seems pretty obvious to me that this is really negatively like this general discourse of the last few months. Obviously it's always existed, but it feels like it's ramped up uh is really negatively affecting, like Fezzik Rath, specifically because they're crashing out insane on Twitter like Fezzik's been. Like he's gone to another level of crash out. 

34:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean he's got to take people to. He's saying that all the people who lost his packages this past year. He's gonna take them all out, all out, to a dinner in Vegas. 

34:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I was going to respond to a tweet. Imagine to his tweet about taking out for dinner. Imagine paying for physics pick packages, losing and then having to go for dinner with them. It's a punishment. 

34:30 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Some people just want, like you hunt, you're a professional, you just want her in your room. You don't want to be seen having dinner with her. I agree, you're a professional, you just want her in your room. You don't want to be seen having dinner with like it's just. It's one of those things. I'm not. Yeah, I know what you're saying. You're just paying for the service doesn't mean we want to be friends. Yeah. Yeah, you get a hooker in vegas. 

34:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You're not going to bring her down to saginaw's for a deli sandwich in public afterwards. 

34:52 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You know what I'm saying, like it's but, uh, you made a comment like fez Raz. I almost wanted to set a line like who, who like Spanky's probably enjoying that there's a handful of people who are like contemplating am I being subtweeted right now? Yes, for sure, and he's probably getting off on like there's going to be like six of them who think I'm talking directly to them yeah, I mean for me, I I have never, ever been a proponent of like all pick sellers are scams. 

35:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh, don't buy picks. I've never really said that. The problem is that you know people come like I come on here and I say I buy these projections or I buy picks and whatever or you say this person's a winning better, but I don't know if buying their picks are winners. Here's the real problem. So I don't think, spanky, actually I'm speaking on his behalf. I don't know if he believes this or not. 

35:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I was going to say I know he doesn't believe it. 

35:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I just think this is the safer message to put out to the public. Like I don't like I, I don't like, I don't like when it you know it's all encompassing, it falls into this bucket or not. But this is the safer message, because here's the problem every, all of the people who actually know when it's worthwhile to buy picks or not. They're pretty much all sharp and like they can make a good, sound process. Like I can go and evaluate any handicapper and I'll say I have a 99 hit rate on whether or not they're winning or losing better, just by very, very quickly looking at them. Most people do not have that ability to do so, so it is, in my opinion, just better to lead people away from buying picks for that reason. 

36:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, one, I totally agree. I don't think Spanky believes this. One, I think he thinks it's funny, which it is, it's really funny. But two, the problem is if Spanky says 99% of pick sellers lose but 1% win, everyone thinks they're the 1%. It's true, so they go. Oh okay, yeah, this is true, but I'm the 1%. Listen to the spaces. 

37:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's literally every spaces, every night. 

37:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You're the shitty one, I'm the winner, I'm great, you're terrible. So I backspank you for tweeting this, and if you're a pickseller and your panties are in a knot, shut up If you're a pick seller and you are winning. 

37:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like people are gonna leave. Aren't gonna leave you, yes, but here's the problem, jeff. 

37:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm saying like a pick seller shouldn't. Who wins shouldn't be offended because their clients are in the mud and know they win. I don't. I've never bought a pick, so I don. But I'm saying if I bought someone's picks and they delivered for me, for the shit that I renew on my phone from subscriptions for me or my wife or my kids, you don't think I'd let that subscription just fucking renew? 

37:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Here's the problem but here's the problem with what you're saying right now is that let's say you bought picks from a service service and they won for you for one week. Right, they could very easily still be coin flipping and losing, and and the average person. You're right, it's like the people who come into these spaces are like I bought this guy's picks. 

38:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He's up the last two weeks and whatever I wasn't really referring to subscribing for a week. 

38:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm just saying if, I'm like the long Okay, but maybe he is. 

38:19 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But if I'm winning I'm going to have to. I wouldn't leave a server, unless I was. You proved to me that he is coin flipping, which I know you could, but I'm talking from a layman's perspective. 

38:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
For all the things we let auto-renew in our lives, if someone is actually giving you winning bets, it's going on the pile of that's auto renewing yes, well, but I also think just a big point of this is like if I was a pick seller and in my heart of hearts I was a hundred percent sure that I was a winner and my subscribers were winning winners, I wouldn't crash out over spanky's tweet. I would say, oh, that's funny. Whatever. Yeah, it's true of most people. Yeah, but the fact that every pick seller loses their mind at this at that tweet shows, you know, there's a bit of doubt in their head. 

39:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I, I think, listen, I just think he's taking the safe approach. Yeah, and I think generally I have a little bit of. I'm a little bit pissed off at spanky, because I had a circles off already in the bank that he did the exact same episode of be better, betters, which was going through the spraggertout chart and like this is why you shouldn't buy picks, and in that you know what you can still release. 

39:25 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Maybe we will, why wouldn't you? 

39:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
not it, it's so scary similar so what the? 

39:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
episode that he did I know because you think people will say you just copied it yeah, you know what, at some point I'm gonna put it out. 

39:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It will go out to the masses at some point, because I think it's worth seeing. The title of that episode was going to be don't buy picks. That was going to be the title of the episode. In the episode I was going to talk about how the fact like, of course, there are going to be people who win there are long-term winners that sell picks. I was one of those people. 

39:52
This is not like, but and I don't regret pick selling at all, because it actually led to the biggest opportunity I ever had in life, because some of the biggest movers were buying my packages and being like, no, no, no, like, we want you to work with us instead, and then I just completely stopped. So, like, I have that experience, but for the average person, you could put together a checklist of like, this is what to look for, this is what it's. They're just better off probably avoiding it altogether, and that's what it comes. They're just better off probably avoiding it altogether, and, and that's what it comes down. It's not that I buy picks. 

40:22
I'll make that very clear. I've made it very clear about established the run projections before I get. I say that on the show, but you know many dms I'm gonna get this week. Which projections do you buy when you bet the stuff, this and that, like you know, I know when something has utility, but most people don't. And this is not to be like. I know how this sounds, but you have to be real with yourself as a better and if you, if you can't put yourself in a position to decipher what's you good and bad, okay yes, you buy pics. 

40:51 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yes, and you've explained why you buy pics. Yes, but my take on why you buy pics is you're the same guy who runs a shipping. You buying pics is like a guy who runs a shipping company buying boxes and tape. Yeah, it's a business expense for you. It's not the same, true, true, like you use it to, like, uphold your business or part of your business. I don't know how, what pro bettors have to do for taxes, but I'm saying you could almost it is a business expense. You buying picks is different than a dude buying the service to literally tail pretty much blindly. 

41:29
Well, yeah, I don't think you're a fair example. You're buying it to see what people you do respect are on, to see where things may be moving in this like. So I feel like you're buying picks is a different definition. As a defense for it's okay to buy picks isn't really fair I think there's. 

41:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There's so many levels to this and I probably will put that episode out because I think there's some value in it, regardless of spanky did it already. But with the pick selling is most pick sellers loose, most of them I don't know the percentage, but most pick sellers loose. Then you have another subset of pick sellers who win themselves, are winning bettors, but they cannot pass that value on to the client Absolutely. And I think that's what Fezzik completely doesn't understand. I think this has gone over his every single time I see him tweet about pick selling and the argument that he had with johnny on circles off over a year ago now. 

42:27
I think it comes back to the ability to pass the value on to the client and there's too many scenarios where people bet, they release picks at like I'll use fezic as an example because it's top of mind but like the south point, like he can't even bet at the south point and he's releasing picks there and like no one's gonna get that so and like it's like what do you want me to do? How about don't fucking release picks from the south point? How about pick widely available numbers, release at those numbers like, but even then, once you scale to a larger amount. Not everybody's getting those numbers. It just doesn't happen. If a valuable pick service puts out a pick at minus seven and everyone goes to bet it right away, well, guess what? Like a very small percentage of the clients are now getting that seven numbers moving and everyone else is getting a seven and a half. Like that's the problem with these pick sales. It's not that a lot of these guys don't win. Some of them really do win. They're winning bettors but they cannot pass the value off to the client is the real problem. 

43:31 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I feel, like I say this to you all the time. My question to you sometimes is often like if you have a friend who's got like a real job, say he's like meets with clients, yeah, all day long yeah how? 

43:43
but he's got like the the net worth to like pay for the most expensive service. How can he ever cash in on it? Well, the most like you have to be perpetual. You don't just have to pay for a service, you have to pay for a service and have a perpetually online lifestyle to make it accurate. 

44:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, and if you're buying stuff that's not moving, like you don't have to be there. It's probably not good stuff, Like it usually is not. There's edge cases to everything. But if you're like a dentist, right, and you're performing like a fucking dental surgery, and you come back to your phone and there was a pic released from a service and it's three hours later now and you can go bet the exact same number, the pic didn't have value in the first place. That's the real problem. 

44:30 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like drawing dead everywhere. 

44:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah that's there's. So there, like, there are things and I, you know, back in the day, I used to DM Sprager, the guy who invented the tout chart that people use now and you see, on Twitter all the time, I used to DM him about this all the time because I thought I was the edge case and in fairness, I think I was. I really do. But I would say I don't agree with this section for this reason and this example and this example, and to his credit, he would respond to me and be like, yeah, of course, like we can extend this chart to make it even, but this encompasses like 99.9 percent of things and these edge cases they're so far, you know, few and far. Between that, there's no point in doing it and you know, ultimately I go back to that and it still holds up and it makes a lot of sense. 

45:16
That's not. It's not that it's not that like phasic message, you know he posted a lot of guys. It's not that it's not that like Fezzik, you know he posted a lot of guys there like, of course I would tail these guys' plays. Of course you would. I would tail a lot of those guys' plays too. But if I'm now subscribing to the service. I wouldn't subscribe to the service for the majority of those guys for many different reasons. So, um, we'll leave it at that, because this was going to come up about a million more times over the course of the year. Uh as the uh as Spanky continues to agitate. 

45:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
What is on the screen right now? That's Matt. 

45:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Zalbert eating a banana. Matt Zalbert um has been a character on gambling Twitter for a long time. So for people who don't know, zalbert does not have much of a following. He has like 2,600 followers. He's seemingly been around forever replying to people on twitter about his documented record. How they suck. Where's your documented record? All sorts of stuff. Over the years, um, we had him on forward progress for the superbowl prop show. It's the first time anyone had seen him. It was like proof of life live hit. He was there. He showed up. Uh, he he did say deadspin's bringing back some betting. Look out for that. They've brought him back, um, as the nhl over under expert. He got off to a bad start. I think he lost his first three picks. No, he got off to a bad start with the banana video. 

46:33
The banana video that was the bad start, people see, like me and kanish knew about the banana and marinara. We did that that on an episode of Circles Off previously. 

46:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I remember that we tried it right, but nobody else did so. 

46:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
people were watching. It's like what the fuck is wrong with this guy? He's dipping a banana in sauce, pretending like the camera's there. 

46:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It was like oh hey there, snuck up on him yeah. 

47:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's like megan markel. I mean, people are joking. 

47:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
There's a snapshot at new profile pic um of him eating the banana. His his actual profile pic is a different photo of him eating a banana if you look a little closer yeah, I mean, look at that stencil facial hair. 

47:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
What? 

47:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
the yeah, he's had a beard, as I learned on the spaces on sunday night. Since uh 2014. I believe he said he's had the beard for it, but Deadspin was pretty ruthless when he lost. 

47:24
We gave our new betting guy a much-needed day off after he went 0-3 since making his return. That is so good, that is pretty good. I want to talk about just the aura of Zalbert. Want to talk about just like the aura of zilbert zalbert. You know he bought points, uh, bought up, bought up, I'm sorry, point bought up a half goal in a hockey game to under six minus 140. This is one of the first plays he gave out. Final was seven. Four got buried for that as well. 

47:53
Um, zalbert used to be, he used to like, sincerely agitate me well for a long time and I think he has of life helped. It helped a little bit also. I just got to the point where I'm like none of these conversations ever lead anywhere. It's just the same repetitive conversation. What used to really get me was when his documented record that he I don't know where this is documented, it's self-documented or whatever he just removed the COVID baseball season completely had a horrible season and he said I'm taking this out of the record because it wasn't like real. It wasn't a real season, it was like there was no fans, there was this and that. So he just completely, and I used to argue with him on Twitter nonstop about this, then I'm like it's not going anywhere. Like you you're arguing with someone whose source of the truth is themselves. Like you're never going to get anywhere. It's how a lot of political arguments are nowadays, as well After arguing was like seeing it in real life. 

48:59
You seeing it in real life. You now know I never have to argue with him again. Yeah, like I'm like I think back and I'm like you know, clive bixby is a very good friend of mine. He hosts uh sunday night football with me on forward progress, right, where we kind of just like look at the openers for next week. We talk about them. Clive is constantly responding to him on twitter. I'm just like I message clive. I'm like just what are you man? You're wasting so much of your life. Playmaker Dave, right, he's constantly All these people are responding to him. It's just like it's never going to lead anywhere. He doesn't sell picks, does? 

49:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
he, he does not sell picks. 

49:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He did say he sold for three years for Vegas Insider, 2013 to 2016,. I think is what he said, because he was on Twitter space as I listened to the whole thing. But he doesn't sell picks now, he just writes articles. 

49:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
To me, the fascinating thing about Zilbert is like 99.9% of people on Twitter. You can kind of like see what their motivation is, why they're doing it. If they're a pick seller, they're trying to get clout. They're trying to get people to follow him, whatever he is just an enigma. Like what even is he? 

50:01 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
so when we would have done the first circles off, my take on him would have been like there are people that you've seen me getting like big spats with online, but I would happily like have a beer with that right. Um, he's pretty useless. I think you and chipper would like each other if you listen. 

50:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Most people I agree with more than, by the way, I will say and this is completely and it's not off topic, but so many people have come around on you, yeah, the first few episodes. I get so many messages now. Even the comments on this show now are like I really couldn't stand jeff before, but now like he's an essential part. Matt trenhale messaged me on the side. 

50:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Anyways, continue your point okay, well, maybe it is just like having the proper lens. Yeah, look at someone through, and people have developed that with me, I hope, uh, and what I'm about to say is, I guess, complimentary to me in that respect, but now I wouldn't want to be within 100 yards of him before. Now he fascinates me. I would have a beer with him. He is in the same part. I put him with GRP, not so much in their capping strategy, but how I view them. I'm now here for the humor, hearing him on the spaces, like how little he actually bets to be going at people, yelling at them for documentation. Yeah, I don't really understand, but yeah, he is an enigma. I am fascinated by this character, see like I think for a long time. 

51:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What I was really trying to figure out was is this an act? Is he trolling everyone or is this real? And I've come to the realization that I think he's extremely honest and this is real. He believes everything he says, right, he really does Like you ask him on a spaces who's the better? Better Like you or rufus? And he's like well, rufus probably got me in golf. I don't bet golf, he's gonna golf. 

52:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't do golf but like baseball and football. 

52:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I probably got like you know he believes this stuff and it's it's kind of fascinating. 

52:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He's like but even said to you that he's altruistic in the sense that he doesn't even like bet for money, bets for clout like he makes incremental. He doesn't bet for clout, jeff no, he bets. 

52:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He bets, you know, like he wants to win for clout, but not even he wants to win for the people like and, and why he doesn't bet more, which I fully believe. I'm telling you. I believe him when he says this he doesn't bet more, which I fully believe. I'm telling you. I believe him when he says this he doesn't bet more because if he won too much money, he would lose his drive. He handicaps a lot every day. He takes it really seriously. 

52:51
I sincerely believe that he believes that, yes, but okay, how many people's job is it to write gambling articles and they just throw it through AI and then they edit it afterwards? No, but I mean like he's Seriously. 

53:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's not like he's making a paycheck somewhere else. Who's got like this knack for over-under? It's not like a doctor, oh no, no, he's got a knack for over-under. 

53:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's a writer. His job is being a writer. He, he's a writer. 

53:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
His job is being a writer, he also definitely doesn't have a knack in my opinion. No, I'm not saying. 

53:21 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm just playing up. 

53:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, no, I see what you're saying. 

53:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm playing up to the situation. I'm fascinated by him. I actually thought he was a little mistreated on those spaces. It was fucking disgusting honestly. 

53:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I cannot even believe I'm saying this right, finish your point. Finish your point. 

53:42 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
But okay, like someone like trent, like and, and people like trent, like if you have been sending tweets for years and like 80 of the tweets you've sent out over the last four years. This guy is making a comment on yes, you, you unequivocally get a step into the dunk tank with him in the chair. 

54:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, agreed this guy has been tweeting at you. 

54:07 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He hasn't grown his following in five fucking years. He's been yelling at the sky at you for five years. You are now in his spaces like if you're trent or someone who has that sort of experience from zalbert yeah, 100, like you can now go up and smash the dunk tank button as hard as you want. But there were people in the spaces who've never even zalbert's never sent them a tweet. Yeah, and they're like bullying, simple jack, yeah, yeah, and elf is like standing for it and giggling all the way through it. No, no, that didn't sit right with me I totally agree with you. 

54:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
First and foremost, obviously, interviewed elf last week here on circles. You can watch that interview back if you do want to watch it back. Uh, I thought that was so. It's funny because I do understand from elf's point of view. There's no winning for him in his position as a host. Right, but he's on. 

55:05
He's brought on so many people before which he absolutely glazed the entire time. He muted everyone else when they wanted to get a point in. He does this consistently. Yet he was just piling on with the whole zilbert thing. He was giggling in the background, laughing it up, you know, couldn't let matt get in a word, which I don't know why. His microphone was so quiet either throughout that entire thing. But but so there's that. To me, like let's call it out for what is? I speak my mind all the time. Matt zelbert is delusional is what it comes down to. All right, he thinks of himself in a light, what she is not, plain and simple, and he believes all this stuff right on the scale of, like, all the people that could be doing harm, so harmless it is like it's like a fly, it's like a little ant walking around the room like they're. 

55:52
Like, well, you're doing harm because you publish your records at the bottom of your articles and somebody might see you and and find you like no one's reading this stuff. Like, let's be real, let's be real with ourselves. Like they're not, they're not getting clicks, no one's reading pics, articles anymore. Like, in the grand scheme of things, to have people that don't know who he is, period, just come on and take like personal attacks. I don't stand for that stuff. I don don't like it Personally. Your hair is fucking shit. I don't like that, right, personally, there's really cold. 

56:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I would just say you can joke about stuff, but I do to Vig what Vig did to Zalbert. Yeah, because there's no genuine dislike. I don't not like man of the Vig. We had a bit of a thing last week that like went off air but into some correspondence, but that's core. Like I got no actual like issue with the guy and I'll be honest, the second people were like DMing me, giving me like tips to get to the bottom of who the fuck he is. I was like I'm in this like way too deep. I don't even give a fuck about this guy, truth be told. But if you're trent or people like him and there were others, that's albert has been every tweet they've sent. Yeah, trent is promoting themselves for years. Yes, comes with this, this fucking gnat, this fly in their ear. You get, get in there. But it was just too many people who have never even interacted with this guy picking on Simple Jack. I didn't like it. 

57:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But also like and I think Elf would honestly proudly admit this himself the reason Elf glazes guests is because they have a big following and he wants people to watch his show Like he. Just he wouldn't glaze Albert because he doesn't really bring really bring viewers. It's like I'm listening to all these people come up and it's no relationship to protect like who the fuck is beef to be? 

57:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
like roasting someone else like maybe albert has like you know, matt, like you've been in my comments and I get it like I'm I, by the way, I'm not suggesting that no one can say anything about Zalbert but like fucking Taylor Mathis, like, whether she knowingly did or not, had a fucking crypto rug pull. You know, all Matt said to her is post lines on the pics that you're posting. 

58:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And he got blocked. And that's it Imagine blocking someone for doing what Zalbert does. That's what I'm saying Like, there's no like I like. 

58:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, I can understand the agitation. I've been there before. I have a Muta, to be fair. 

58:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Muting is fair, but blocking like there's nothing offensive about show me your like it's not a harassment, it's almost a great act. It's almost Like I get it. I've said things that have crossed the line. I don't have a leg to stand on, yes, right, but to block him for being like where are your lines? What's your documented record? 

58:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, man Nuding is legit, though I always say former friend of the program, not former friend Still current friend of mine, but he's not with the Hammer anymore was Eric Eager, who went from pro football focus Sumer Sports. He was with us on forward progress and then he went to be the vp of analytics for the carolina panthers. He tweeted something after like a panthers win where they went to like two and seven. It was like oh, like big win, keep pounding, or something like that. Zauber was like where is your documented record? I? 

59:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
never hated Zalbert more than in that moment. I swear to in that moment, like I consider Eric like a friend, an internet friend, yes, one of the great. Like he's so good and funny online too, in my opinion, that him you know being can't like do that working for the team now. So that's a bit of a loss, but I hate it. Zalbert did that. I'm like the nerve of this guy to tweet that to an employed person in the. 

59:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
NFL and he did track on BetStamp for several years. 

59:51 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That being said, if Zalbert did that now, like after seeing him on Forward Progress, after seeing the videos, after hearing him on again, it's just like he is crazy. But you've got to look at it the same way. You look at it as George, like entertainment purposes only I think. 

01:00:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So I think I definitely view it like if we had this conversation like four or five years ago, I would be so triggered having this conversation. I've now moved on, do you not think that? 

01:00:20 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
zalbert, george. 35 years ago was zalbert very possible like way more confident. 

01:00:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They seem to have a lot of person. Yeah, that's the thing, see, like to me, I listen to matt talk and I legitimately believe that he wants to do right for the industry. Like I think that's very and and people could disagree with me on this I think in his heart he wants to do right for the industry. Like I think that's very and and people could disagree with me on this I think in his heart he wants to do right for the industry. He just doesn't realize, like where he actually stands. Like I'm sorry, but like winning bettors are not buying a half point on half of their place. It's just not happening. You know, like going back and saying you want to do right for the industry, like here are here are my documented records from like 13 years Like just stop, nobody cares at this point. Like no one. Like literally start a BetStamp account now and start tracking from this point forwards and do it for several years and we can revisit it in a couple years. Like plain and simple, the total stick is not working anymore. 

01:01:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The greatest over-under player alive is betting like $100 on over-unders. 

01:01:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, I believe he said high three figures, I believe. 

01:01:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm just saying I feel like there was enough in this. I've never heard of anyone over-under, but they challenged him. They literally brought three figures. I've never heard of someone who's had to do a number three figures but they brought up. 

01:01:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They raised $1,750 for him to post a bet slip of the last pick that he gave out in his Deadspin article and he refused to do it. I mean, like these are not good. 

01:01:47 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Maybe high two-figure? Yes, would you not say that last night like pretty much answered like the super majority of questions? Yeah, that like you don't need to? Yes. Majority of questions. You don't need to yes. Sometimes real pro bettors get like Playmaker Dave Clive. 

01:02:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't mean them as similar, clive is not a pro, he's like a semi-pro. 

01:02:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They get so mad with, like George or Zauber, yeah, like anything. Like anything, some of the the comp. 

01:02:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So, like some of these people like matt reminds me of how a lot of our football handicappers get triggered by joe, a nfl like he's. He is always his own source of truth. Right, like will levis is better than all these guys. Will levis has a terrible game and he he's like well, did you watch the game? They're like, yeah, we watched. Like the two pick sixes he threw. He's like, well, what about? Like you can't argue with that, Sam. 

01:02:47 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Howell would have done the same thing in Washington this year. Yes, 100%. 

01:02:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
According to Joe, a Right like I just don't pay attention anymore. It's like the shtick is that he's always right and his viewpoint is always right. Don't argue with that. It's the same with Matt. Like just I get why people get triggered. My personal experience with the Sunday night spaces I went into that. I'm like I have no idea, honestly no idea how this is going to go Within 10 minutes. I felt pretty bad for him honestly. By the end of it there's a couple people who maybe defend Dan Lifshatz came in and said what are we even doing here? Matt Zaubert is not hurting anyone. We have all these people who are coming on roasting him. 

01:03:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I thought that was how I felt he had his back, he had his back. 

01:03:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And he got mad at Elf for pretty much Like we're going to let Taylor Mathis come in and bully Zalbert. 

01:03:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where this is going to go, but I legitimately left from listening to that with like almost sympathizing for it and I get it. 

01:03:55 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There were people in there that had legitimate like internet rules, say, infinity shots. If trent wanted to take infinity shots at zalbert, he was entitled to it. Yes, for every tweet he sent for years. Having to look at that like I wish my boy, pat mayo, would create a show for me kirk, like a one one-time special, where the three or four guys that yell at me on every tweet I sent we get like five. Bring them each on for like five minutes. 

01:04:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Maybe it'll be a circle back. 

01:04:30 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
My producer hat was going off. I long retired in that Elf segment. Yes, you should have just arranged the dudes for which zalbert annoys the shit out of, yeah, and then let them go in and not allow anyone else. But like too much, if even someone's like, do you live in like? 

01:04:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
section eight, public housing yeah, I think it's ridiculous, man. I mean, it was it got from someone who's like never interacted with the guy on twitter in life, exactly I've heard that you owe four thousand dollars to bookies in, like your, your state, and he's just like no, that's the one fake book. 

01:05:05 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He was funny saying he's getting broken from people playing the opposite of albert. 

01:05:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, frank rambo yeah, he came in for 10 seconds and that was hilarious. I hate. I don't like the frank rambo shtick on twitter jason williams or whatever I do not like that at all but that I I almost pissed my pants. 

01:05:23
He came in. We gotta fight. We gotta clip that at some point. We gotta clip that. Anyways, we're gonna return to zabo right at the end of the show. Um and matt, if you ever want to go out on a wednesday night, have, uh, nine to ten miller highlifes with me, I'm down. I'm down for that as well. Before we get into our next segment here, I just want to read through some of the comments from last week as a reminder. Comments drive this show. We check the comments every single week. We check the hashtag circle back on Twitter every single week and we like you to participate as much as possible. It gives us a good flow. It obviously helps us grow this channel as well. So drop a comment below on anything. It is really helpful. From last week Tom Sertic says the guy with the nipples is an underrated comment from Kirk. That is only how I'm going to refer to CBless as now on. 

01:06:13
The only way I could remember him. Yes, coldest Wallet says. May I offer a suggestion? I think this show should lean into coverage of spaces by doing two shows a week. This way, the news you cover stays within the current cycle spaces is the current cycle. 

01:06:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That's just the reality of it. I feel like you want to create a show where we talk about the ongoings and drama of gambling twitter. Since we started the show, these spaces have happened. They are like a focal point of gambling twitter right now yes, I want I. 

01:06:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I could foresee this becoming to a week at some point, but we might have to have, like I don't want to say, the a and b crew. That's not what I like. 

01:06:54 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't want to compare, one being better than the other, so mad if I'm not on the show and, like that, crew got a topic I wanted, so bad, but that happens, I would be like. They're not allowed that, Robbie, better save me that topic. 

01:07:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, that happens with. Well, think about how Mayo Media Network works. Right, I do the show with Pat and Cam, you do the show with Cust. They're very different, but there's overlap, right, he with Cust. And they're very different, but there's overlap, right, he always brings up something. I think that could work. I honestly think it could work. 

01:07:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm pretty out on the spaces, so if there's a show that just covers the spaces, get Jason to cover it. He'll do a good job. 

01:07:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You say you're out, but you're like man of the Vic. 

01:07:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You're going to get told right back, but. I've heard you speaking a couple times. 

01:07:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
When was the last time? Maybe it hasn't been in the last little while. Maybe you're right. Show note from one of your Gen X listeners. The term Grand Poobah refers back to the legendary Fred Flintstone himself, the original elected Grand Poobah of the local Water Buffalo Lodge. 

01:07:52 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Because I said Spanky in the spaces is like the Grand Poobah. Yeah, that's it. 

01:08:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We couldn't get the reference in real time. It really is a great cop. Um, all right couple here love your show was surprised to learn kirk was such a sportsbook ass kisser. Kirk comes off like such a shill for the books here. What an absolute schmuck. 

01:08:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
yeah, well, keep those comments coming, because I'm gonna come off as that again this episode, as we talked about limiting and I'm writing a Kirk's newsletter on why you shouldn't be able to complain about limiting. So I imagine more of these comments are coming. 

01:08:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
What's that newsletter called Kirk's Hammer? Where can they find that newsletter? 

01:08:31 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
In the link in the description. There we go. 

01:08:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Kirk's Hammer link in the description below Mike Vivian, put me up against Billy Walters and Haralabob below. Uh, mike vivian, uh, put me up against billy walters and harala bob. Also give me the swag. We are doing a swag contest uh as a reminder we're giving away some swag. 

01:08:43
Three things you got to do. You got to be subbed here on circles off. Drop a comment down below and follow us on any social media platform tiktok, instagram or twitter. Circles off hq as well. Um, you kind of said that you're like a better, better than, uh, billy Walters and Haralabob. 

01:09:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I honestly still think I'm probably better than current form. Billy Walters I don't know what he's betting, I just was. I honestly tweeted that, mostly because Haralabob owns a soccer team in Europe. Yeah, and Billy Walters is what? 70? 

01:09:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah. 

01:09:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know if they're betting, but then I. 

01:09:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I gave you some additional details. 

01:09:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Someone dm'd me about her alabama's betting and yes, I am worse, better than her alabama currently and always in the past, albert may not be, though no, it might not be there's a long pause. 

01:09:35 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He has to like think about it. Am I better than that guy? 

01:09:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
we've moved on from zauber but like he does, he doesn't understand the like, volume, volume right, like if you're, if you're both betting at plus 100 and one guy's hitting at like, let's even say 52, but he's doing that on thousands of bets, that's much better than doing like hitting 55 on 10 bets a month. Like anyways, that's the volume conversation that came from mike vivian, by the love, mike vivian I'm a big fan. 

01:10:05
Now I'm gonna do this for mike vivian. I don't know why I'm doing this, but I know that in the past he's recorded videos of him at his house saying he's been on circle back. He obviously looks really forward to that, uh. So this is just gonna be like I don't really mean what I'm saying here, but just so, mike, you can show this to your wife at home. I'll do a little countdown. You don't want to start it here. Three, two, one. Mike Vivian got to tell you that guy absolute stand up guy, class act. Anyone would be lucky to have him as a husband. Anyone Truly love Mike Vivian as a person. 

01:10:39 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Agreed. And a great tweeter. That guy rips that guy's exit velo of some of those tweets, so good. 

01:10:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Just such a great person, mike Vivian. Great person, one of our show sponsors here, edge Boost. Nothing is worse than getting blocked from making a bet at the worst possible moment. It sucks. We've all been there before. You're ready to fire a bet, suddenly your deposit won't go through, your card gets flagged, your PayPal's frozen, your bank decides that's not happening today. It's frustrating. It happens way too often. That's why so many bettors, both pros and everyday bettors, are switching over to Edge Boost. It's the first ever dedicated bank account built specifically for sports betting, for DFS, for casino and for sweeps. No more deposit issues, no more bank interference, smooth transactions. Every time I know what you're thinking Is this legit? Everyone's always like ah, is this legit? Elf tell, is this legit? This is legit. 

01:11:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I've churned probably over a million through this card so far Actually easily over a million, and I've had absolutely no issues. 

01:11:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's a great product and I also yeah, I love it. So it's legit. 

01:11:50
There you go. Edge Boost Visa Debit Card is available across the US. Let's you move up to 250K per day, which lets you move up to 250K per day, which would be great for a lot of you pros. You earn cash back on every single deposit. If you're betting seriously, it's a no-brainer. It's honestly a great product. Check it out. Don't get blocked again. Click the link in the description below. Start earning today with Edge Boost. All right, yeah, I mean listen, that was very organic. I mean I like that. We had someone on the show that actually uses it A lot of my friends are using it. 

01:12:20
I'm literally up $2,944 this month from Esrius. I use it every day. It's yeah, it's a good product. So yeah, $3,000 this month alone, February alone yeah. 

01:12:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I mean, listen, there you go, pays my rent. Yeah, there you go. 

01:12:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, mr Peanutbutter tweeted. Feels like sportsbooks haven't fully figured out how to monetize the NCAA tourney yet. There should be some type of circus survivor style tourney with unique scoring, espn trying to convert people who already in their bracket contest seems like an obvious match. A little bit of a grammatical error there. I thought I was really interested in this one. We obviously have March Madness coming up in a a few weeks and I'm thinking of myself as someone who's been betting for like 20 plus years. 

01:13:07
Used to love college basketball more than I do now, but the bracket has gotten so stale for me. I used to love it when we were younger, maybe in the office we used to put all the brackets up at the on the wall watch games together. People would highlight the winners and stuff like that. But bracket just has like zero luster to me as a better anymore. And I asked friends of mine as well because I wonder sometimes, like I'm on the sharp side of things I only care about like winning money how do they feel? And they're kind of like, yeah, in the same boat. You know, after the first couple days if I'm like three points off the leader, it's like it almost feels like everything is done for me, type of thing. So I actually kind of like the idea of having like a big alternate type of contest for march madness yeah, I I think this is a great tweet. 

01:13:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I honestly thought that it should just be survivor. Maybe you don't pick every game, maybe you you have to pick like 75% of the games every day. Last person in wins, just like Survivor. That was kind of my idea. But I agree it is kind of surprising that the sports books don't really have any good offerings for it. 

01:14:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I think the key as to why nothing has taken off per Peanutbutter's point those two words unique scoring. There's no unique scoring. It would just have like you. There's no unique scoring. The charm of survivor is the simplicity of survivor. Yeah, so kirk might be onto something and it's so stupid. It works and that it's literally just survivor. Yeah, and if you want to burn those teams in round one, you can burn them, and maybe you have to use more than one. Yes, like multiple picks in a day, or maybe like a at least early, like a handful of picks in a day. 

01:14:49
I'm not exactly sure, but it is. It's the simplicity in the. Success is in the simplicity, totally agree with you. And unique scoring making Joe Blows have to figure out. Noda-da-da-da. No, not going to. 

01:15:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Not going to. 

01:15:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It has to be simple. It has to be simple. Yeah, like I do remember. Like for college football bowls I participate in like confidence pools, where it's like all the spreads come out and they're locked in and it's just like okay rank, you know, your bowl spread picks from 30 to 1. 

01:15:21
And they do well, I'm sure there's like how many people? A couple grand, uh, even less than that. But like it's it's a decent buy-in. Like it's it's an amount to make it worth my time to even pick games and it's something to root for, right, regardless. I like those style of things. I think circus survivor obviously took off this year for nfl. Um, it again meets the criteria of I don't want to say betting a small amount of money to win a lot, because the entry is a thousand dollars but you could pool together with friends or whatever it get. Like 14 million dollar payout for circus survivor, nfl last year. Like that's something that's gonna excite you, right, and yeah, warren buffett's gonna pay you on a perfect bracket. Like it's not gonna happen. 

01:15:56
You're not gonna pick a perfect bracket. I I like the idea of someone taking over this type of contest. The challenges with vegas are you have to go sign up in person. Yeah, for for football season you have a long off season in between for march, madness, like you're gonna have to go some point. In the winter it's a little bit more challenging stuff like that. But um man, I think I think if someone offers it in a good way, it it has the potential to explode, totally agree. 

01:16:23 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
When? Sorry to change the subject, but when does Circa Stevens like? When do they announce the prize pool? Usually for the upcoming year. 

01:16:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They guarantee a certain amount. 

01:16:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Sorry, they guarantee. 

01:16:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Probably decently soon Soon, I would hope no, it's definitely after March Madness. 

01:16:39
So, Fetbash used to happen, um, or it did one year during the march madness finals, but at that time you couldn't yet sign up for the contests for the upcoming year. So spanky said well, that doesn't make sense. A lot of these people want to come out to sign up for contests. Let's push it back, um, and do it in august. So that's why it's there now. So I'm gonna guess it happens in like april or may. That makes sense. Where it's the guaranteed amount? Right? It's like six million for circa millions, whatever it is for survivor and um I have, like those spaces, spanky's, grown on me so much yeah so much you did say you would confide in him. 

01:17:17
If you ever needed a hitman as well, you would reach no, that's not what I said. 

01:17:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You're mixing the words. That's not what happened I. 

01:17:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You said, if you ever needed to have someone taken off the planet, I guess, in theory, because I would need his help and he would. 

01:17:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Technically, I would be confiding in him yes, even though, no, I don't, wouldn't be you've already said too much I just want to say anything that happens in the spaces. People get riled up and it's still a grand poobah thing. It's like what do you think Spanky? I know, and people just say he is like the grand master. 

01:17:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He really is, and usually he's just, and most of these people don't even know who he is which is hilarious. Even with the, I worked up a little bit. 

01:17:57 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay, but it's still like. 

01:17:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There's two things that got him worked up. When Jeff Nadu called him a rat, that was insane. 

01:18:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay, yes. 

01:18:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And Sean Perry just dumped him. But he's usually like very calm yeah yeah, well, spaces. 

01:18:12
I don't want to say for sure that the night that it's happening. I can't promote it because I don't know the exact night, but Amanda Vance is joining the Elf Spaces this week. She's tweeted you can stop DMing me, elf, I'm in this week. I have a lot to say. Get your beer ready. And Elf confirmed this by tweeting out the fact that she'll be on this week as well. She finally answered one of my DMs. The segment with Amanda Vance will happen next week. What questions do you want me to ask her? Obviously, there's never good questions that people reply on these, so I'm not going to post any of them. Most of them are jokes. Will this be something that could get you back into the Twitter spaces? 

01:18:51 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, this is literally why I'm out of the Twitter spaces. We've had this 10 times. 

01:18:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I'm going to be listening to this one. It'll be very hard for me not to speak on this one as well. 

01:19:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm going to sound like a simp here, but the most fascinating part of Amanda to me is that she is legit beautiful. Could have been a low-tier model. Most female cappers have a look about them Hard to describe it, but when you see it, rob, you know. Amanda doesn't have it at all, just top tier beauty. Who is now like sending out eight picks a day? What are you reading there? Oh, that was a tweet jack mack sent to bonnie blue and you just changed the other I. 

01:19:38
I just changed it. That's pretty good. You should read it to her on the spaces. Listen, I'm fascinated by this one. 

01:19:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will say if we did a charting of prettiest female touts, I think she would win first place, I think she'd be pretty high up on the list for sure. 

01:20:03 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Like I could see why Taylor does it for guys. She brings things to the table that are documented like high priority things for dudes. 

01:20:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Are you not comfortable with this conversation? 

01:20:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I think it's fascinating, but I think, like it's, it's, there's like a definitive gap here yeah, I think so. I don't, I don't know every female um tout or I don't know, like you said, with these spaces finding it about new people every single week that I didn't know existed. It is and it isn't? 

01:20:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I actually wish I didn't know about a lot of these okay, you're right. 

01:20:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Awesome is the wrong word, but yeah, you just, there's like the, we're like discovering new planets you know what's happening, how deep it goes, you know and I'll tell you this because I'm involved in these spaces with these people. 

01:20:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Now I'm getting served their content in my for you. 

01:20:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, for sure fuck is this? 

01:20:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
and then, like I click in the name, I'm like, oh, this is a guy that was on the spaces for half an hour when I was also in there, and of course I'm getting his content. So it's kind of hurting me a bit. 

01:21:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
She's promising to pop off. I don't know who she's mad at, or she just has some great story? 

01:21:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm not sure, or is she going to be like? I won seven figures gambling last year. Here's my documentary record and I'm a spin influencer fan. 

01:21:20 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I think he makes good content. I thought the misogyny claims were like unfair and that's just the low end. 

01:21:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
She never claimed he was a misogynist, though Amanda Vance never to her like she was the one who said are you trying to flirt with me, maybe? 

01:21:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think I thought I don't know exactly what it was. The misogyny came from Ariel Epstein, I believe. 

01:21:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is why I'm out on this basis, but these are always a disappointment. 

01:21:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
How are you? 

01:21:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
going to get to Amanda. You have to penetrate no pun intended Elf, and Elf is going. This will be the glaze of the century. You want to see the Secret Service, the armed security around a guest? Yeah, Watch what goes on. Just the amount of people that were open to yell anything they wanted at any time. At Zalbert. Everyone will be muted at all times for Miss Vance. 

01:22:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No one else might talk. I hate to turn this into like a gender thing, but the taylor mathis spaces, the ariel epstein one, they were both extremely disappointing for me. Like you talk about, the zalbert space was like everyone in there was like hyenas and there was like a wounded animal. It was zalbert and they're just like boom, boom, like one after another. There's no pauses, people speaking over it. Watch how quiet it will be. Connish will come in and be like amanda big fan. I want to ask you you know kirk will come in and be like amanda's. Totally fine it it will not be entered, like there's some stuff that I'm privy to, like spinfluencer. Um, he called her out on like fake testimonials on the site, right, he did a reverse Google image search and found that these testimonials were fake. 

01:23:05
Those are no longer on the site before. Very easy talking point. Will it get brought up? I don't know. I think this is going to be a simp fest. I really do. 

01:23:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Amanda, you're beautiful. Tell me your story. Where did you go to school? Do you remember the Taco Bell in the mall? 

01:23:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
they don't look like they're that different ages as well, like I think. I think Elf here will be. He'll have the mute button ready. He's just gonna want to chat with Amanda well stay tuned. 

01:23:37 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It'd be cute. It'd be cute if they became a couple. I agree that would be great for gambling Twitter. I agree your lips are moving in a way I've never seen them go before I was trying to think the Red Bull, yeah, I guess. 

01:23:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Honestly, I was thinking that that seems like a very logical next step for Alf Good for him, it really does. Protecting all the influencers and touts over the last several months and then finding his queen is that his goal is that the end goal? 

01:24:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
it would not shock me yeah I don't know. 

01:24:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh, I'm gonna listen to it. 

01:24:12 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm not gonna lie to you in the way, I don't know, just say like, in the way dave uh, playmaker d, who had like 100 things to get off on Zalbert was so calm through the whole thing, yeah, that is what we needed a Playmaker Dave to have done, like that was the complete opposite of how Nadeau handled. 

01:24:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Taylor, Taylor, yeah, complete opposite. Agreed. Saw this DM going around Twitter this week. Eric Lindquist, who I think is with Odd Shopper, tweeted out some people should not bet sports, With an accompanying screenshot of someone reaching out to him via DM saying I feel like a total fucking idiot for tailing you to take the Clippers against the Lakers man. He then accepted the request. He says they were plus 105 last night. They got back to minus 200 when it seems like Luka and LeBron weren't going to play. Then Powell got ruled out randomly and both Luka plus LeBron played. Could have middled it for profit almost the entire day if you hated the read so much. Also swept the board Thursday, but thanks for reaching out about one single play on Friday. 

01:25:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm trying to look what this closed, but did we determine if Eric Lindquist sells picks or what is Odd Shopper? 

01:25:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
There's so many companies in the space now, isn't it like Odd Checker a bit? I could be wrong. 

01:25:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, that seems to make sense. I think so. 

01:25:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
To me, if Eric Lindquist gives out picks for free, then DMing him after a bet loses is kind of annoying. But if he sells picks, then you're fair game yeah, the internet contract says if you sell. 

01:25:56 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
What is it? It's not Okay. It doesn't mean it's right or classy or respectful. I would just say, as a paying customer, it's like more open than just a guy yelling at you for a free twitter pic. 

01:26:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, that's my only take on. I think like for me I I have some, I have fundamental problems with certain things in the sports betting space which I think are not tolerable under any perspective. One is tweeting at like an athlete for your bet, or whatever I agree. 

01:26:25
That, to me, is cringe. I really hate the DMs. When people just get it. It's like you bet you. Ultimately I say this all the time when you place a bet, you're clicking the button, you're clicking submit bet. It doesn't matter that you got it from somebody online. Once you click submit bet, it's on you. You have made the conscious decision to place that bet. 

01:26:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If it loses, it's on you. 

01:26:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's now. I don't agree. If I paid, okay, I backstory um. He does sell picks okay um 1995. For one week, 49.95 for a full month. Okay, and this game closed, minus $1.15 for the Lakers. 

01:27:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
For the Lakers. Yeah, let's say hypothetically. The tout service that calls themselves the pinnacle, the best of the industry, sold for thousands of dollars and their main product was college basketball, and then for two years they were negative units. If I bought those picks hypothetically, if that was someone in the industry, I would be pissed and I would think you would have the right to DM them. 

01:27:37 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Just hypothetically, yeah, just hypothetically Like overall or about like a specific result. 

01:27:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
both I thought we might get the whole show without you bringing them into into the I don't know who you're talking about well, it was a hypothetical, I'm just speaking hypothetically if that existed. 

01:27:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But, changing subjects, I do find it an interesting question of like. Obviously injury news is really important in the nba. Yes, if you make a bet and it goes to minus 200, you got plus 105, but then it goes against you and close against you it is. It is kind of like a an interesting debate. I would say plus 105, there is absolutely a good bet if it seemed to minus 200 and the injury news didn't go against you. Even though I was absolutely massive on the Lakers in this game and I thought the injury news, the market was wrong on that injury news. And also saying Powell got ruled out randomly was an insane thing to say. Just saying like he had missed five games prior to that with knee soreness Got it. 

01:28:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So the reason that this piqued my interest as a whole was I hate the people who DM other people about losing picks. I've made my case on that. I also hated the response yeah, bad response. It reminds me of like the pick is the pick at the end of it. The pick is. 

01:29:02
It's like if I give out a pick on a wednesday best bet show at like minus three and then it steams to minus four and a half, but on sunday there's like some sort of thing that happens, whether it's the market opposing me or whatever, and it turns out to go down to minus two and a half. Like I'm sorry, but like that end up. I I know you're saying like it was a good bet because of the immediate line movement, but at the end of the day you can't. You it might have been and and probably at the time that I said, like take the minus three, it goes to four and a half. It was a good bet at that time. But you can't be saying to people like well, it went to this, this price, so it was good, like that's, there's no recourse for that to me they were plus 105. 

01:29:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
last night they got bet to minus 100 when it seems like Luger and LeBron weren't going to play Done. That's a fine reply. The rest is bad. 

01:29:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, it could have middled it for profit. If we're going to get into that conversation of like every single time I lose a bet, but it got really good. Clv, I'm like well you could admit. We're cooked as an industry, as a whole, I agree. 

01:29:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
We cannot be getting to that point, I agree. 

01:29:57 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
We cannot be getting it. 

01:29:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We like to end off usually with a more generic sports betting topic. Do you have a stronger opinion on this? 

01:30:04 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
No, I was just thought Kirk might bring up like halftime CLV. 

01:30:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I was really looking for a way to insert that myself. 

01:30:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I couldn't find a… I blunt force trauma, yeah. 

01:30:18 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That would have been a great reply. 

01:30:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If that guy had said well, the Clippers were up at half, totally fair, then he might as well have won the bet. 

01:30:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
They were not up at half, could have hit cash out at half buddy? 

01:30:28 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, absolutely. 

01:30:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Would have been a great point. My Sports Update tweeted Breaking the NFL says its plan is to put its electronic system to measure first downs into motion this upcoming regular season in 2025. The chain crew would remain on the sideline as backup, but this is finally happening. Years of people pining for a chip in the ball. It's finally gonna happen and, from my perspective, as a better. 

01:30:52
I hate random variants, right. People complain about var in soccer all the time. They're like oh, but like it, it slows down the pace of the game. You know, the refs got to go to the sideline monitor. Whatever I, I am all for getting calls right, especially when I'm betting on things, because I think when you can remove, like a lot of the random bullshit that happens, as a better, you take out that variance, it's good. 

01:31:15
However, I will say this I love the chains in the sense that it's like an additional talking point all the time for games that we're going to lose, and we're going to lose it to the worst talking point ever, because right now, it's just idiots on. I don't want to call them idiots, it's just random guys on the sideline who come out. It's like this very archaic measure, measure of like putting the thing down and measuring exactly. You know we've had referees put like cue cards in between before to see if it's actually first down or not. That that's going to be gone, which I think is very fun, and it's going to be replaced with this. The the new breed of bettors who are going to believe that the electronic ball measurement system is fixed. It's rigged. That was not a first down, it's absolutely rigged. 

01:32:09 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Let me just rewind this for a moment. You, the professional bettor, subconsciously love the drama of two 70-year-old men from different sides of the field, both 25 yards off the ball, walking in at different markers, the drama of which one of them will get to the ball first, which one of them will put the ball down, which one of them has the gall to tell me they kept up with Justin Jefferson on that play and know where his knee was down bingo the drama. 

01:32:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I love the NFL so much people don't understand how much I love. I don't love football. I love the NFL so much that I want to talk NFL all day and all night during NFL season. And if it comes down to look at this stupid idiot ref on the sideline who spotted this a yard off the ball or bringing backup plays, there is actually I can't even believe this is coming full circle right now George GRP when he lost his Flacco Flacco Comeback Player of the Year, he needed someone else, baker Baker. 

01:33:22
There was a game in which the Chicago Bears played the Cleveland Browns down the stretch of that game and there was an absolutely horrendous spot. Justin Fields picked up a first down in that game. It was spotted incorrectly. I don't remember the exact next play I think it was a punt or something like that but it led to flacko being able to go down the field. The browns won the game instead of losing the game. It completely altered the george's life as it exists flacko winning that game. If there was electronic thing it would have been in there. But that drama I love it. 

01:33:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You're so good for it normally I would say you're 100 wrong, but here I'll only say 95, because when like reviews and stuff were coming in, yes, I was very pro reviews and now, looking back, I actually think it's been kind of horrible for sports. So there are these externalities that are hard to evaluate, but this just seems like a slam dunk. The game will be faster, the calls will be better I like good calls and you don't have to have the chains of people running out, which takes a lot of time. 

01:34:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You'll have drama, I'd like to add. I don't think you will lose the drama. 

01:34:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think if it's a close play, we know we've got to look on the Jumbotron there's going to be a mute. 

01:34:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
They're going to play this background noise music in the stadium or for baseball. In tennis they clap rhythmically, as it's about to come out. 

01:34:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I've been in tennis matches. It's amazing. 

01:34:52 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The sweat of that. 

01:34:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But it's a great sweat because you see the ball come in and you can't even tell. You're like, oh, that come in and you can't even tell. You're like oh, but that's exactly what they should do. 

01:35:00 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
And in baseball this year they're doing something where there's a couple of games which will be weird and I'm sure we'll talk about it as we get closer to it. But I'm certain in the stadium they're going to build up the moment of the reveal. 

01:35:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I like that. I do Just random hypothetical, not a right angle sports hypothetical here. If your favorite sport could be every game officiated perfectly, would you want that as a fan? 

01:35:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, yes, yes. 

01:35:30 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay. 

01:35:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Without any more time added. 

01:35:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm always so scared because I'm just like a mental midget sports fan. I'm always so scared. They're going to make some great new rule, which I do love, but the first implementation of it in a huge spot is going to screw my team in the first moment. 

01:35:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I could see that being the trial. 

01:35:55 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The first year the baseball went from a best of five to a best of seven in the ALCS, before there was even wild cards. The Blue Jays had a three to one series lead in the 85. Alcs. It was the first year they went to seven games and they lost in seven. Now my voice is crap, by the way. I would take imperfection. I think it adds to the yeah umpires, add to base you don't want Angel Hernandez bad, but you want it's the whole robot arms. 

01:36:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I go back and forth with the robot arms too, because it's like, yeah, I do want them, right, but I like the element of human error. 

01:36:40 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't know what it is about, but human error is tough when we can see it so perfectly. 

01:36:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Human error is okay when. 

01:36:45 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Twitter didn't exist and 4K replays didn't exist. Now that they do, human error lives for five days and that is not good, can I? 

01:36:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
present a hypothetical for you, rob, an actual hypothetical For me. I'm very ingrained in soccer and VAR is new, and that's the big controversy right now. Because all this controversy about calls getting like things getting called incorrectly. So 2010 World Cup, england have a ball over the line would have made it 2-2 against Germany. 

01:37:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yep remember that. 

01:37:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Clearly over the line goal line technology is implemented which has had very, very limited errors, but it's a very snappy, quick decision. The ref's watch vibrates. It's either a goal or it isn't a goal. But VAR has presented subjectiveness where there is no subjectiveness to goal line technology. So you know things like offsides. People like to complain how long VAR takes, but then in the FA Cup earlier this season, may 9th, scored a 93rd-minuterd minute winner against lester. Very clearly it was offside there was no var. 

01:37:42
There's no var. Yeah, people complain, yep, that the ref should have made the call correctly. Well, we have the technology that most people hate. That would get the call correctly. But I think var is in place not for like just, you know, random league games, but it always has to be for when it's a big moment. So the hypothetical I'm going to present to you let's say, because in the NHL you can now challenge offsides, let's say the Leafs are in Game 7 overtime in the Stanley Cup Final and they lose the game because they cannot challenge an offside call. And now you have to live the rest of your life knowing the Leafs one chance to win a Stanley Cup in your lifetime. They got screwed over by bad officiating when there could have been technology to rectify that okay, there's a very easy answer. 

01:38:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Obviously, in that instance I want the technology in place to rectify. But so it has always existed but it can happen equally for every team. The screw job could happen equally for any team but. I could just as well work in my team's favor. 

01:38:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I can live comfortably knowing that my team lost and the call was correct. But I could not live comfortably knowing my team lost because of an incorrect call. 

01:38:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There is nothing worse than the hockey offside review. Fuck that. 

01:38:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Even if it's NHL. 

01:38:45 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There is nothing worse. 

01:38:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't even watch a lot of hockey. Just in terms of objectively grading reviews for leagues, they are the nut low. Yes, it's not even close. Also to the NFL. I think they love it. I think they love the ref discourse. This league could afford to fix anything, these owners. They have decided collectively. We are all under the assumption we're all equally opportunistic in getting screwed. That the actual ref discourse of our league, I believe, might seem counterintuitive. 

01:39:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
They actually thoroughly enjoy it's part of the league so you would take away all reviews at the risk of something like that happening. It could happen it depends on the sport and the review you'd take away hockey offsides, even though something like that could happen fuck hockey offsides. 

01:39:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They're also such minute plays that really do not like. 

01:39:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
obviously they impact the game. The rule is the rule You're offside or you're not. But, like you know, I can live with my team being like another team being offside by like a pinky nail. 

01:39:56 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Was it this year or last year? There was the crazy play two years ago in a Bills-Chiefs regular season game and Kelsey, someone lined up offside. 

01:40:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yes, there was like a lateral, it was Tony. 

01:40:06 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It was this year, kadarius Tony. 

01:40:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Kadarius Tony, kadarius Tony. 

01:40:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, no, this happens pretty regularly, but it was Kadarius, tony offensive offside, that got called. 

01:40:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, it was like this amazing game-winning play, yeah, play, yeah, yeah. 

01:40:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
And I was like no, he's offside, and then they, the chiefs, complained afterwards they're like they took away such a fucking great play they should have just like now there's no impact on the play, since it was so cool, we're just gonna let this. 

01:40:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I'll change my mind on this topic about a dozen times over the next 10 years. 

01:40:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's just gonna be the way it is. Uh, chopping block for this week. These are topics that didn't make it into the show as a full discussion. You hashtag them circle back on Twitter. Do want to get to a few of them here really quickly. Quick thoughts I watch Bob does sports a lot, by the way. I saw Robbie Berger, who is. Bob tweeted that Fat Perez had someone recline the seat on the airplane in front of them. Bobby asked her about it. She's told me to upgrade to first class next time. She was scary and, most importantly, she was right. Guy's going to have to deal with it. Where do you stand on airplane reclining? 

01:41:10 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm against it, you're against it. I think all of the seats should be. It shouldn't even be a capable like. It shouldn't even be a vehicle. 

01:41:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay forget about that. 

01:41:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I like that take a lot. It's kind of like limiting on sports books. To me, it's like, yeah, it should be up to the regulators, not not every person. Yeah, you can't, because it's just chaos. 

01:41:29 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It should not be up to the hands of people. Yeah, it sets off a horrific chain of events yeah yeah, this looks horrible right here for bob who's, you know, like he's pretty much got a raw dog now because he doesn't even have room to like watch a tablet yeah, yeah, he's now forced into a raw dog. It changes your viewing experience like it's, it's tough and I'm a big guy and I I do not. I will only put it on me if it gets done in front of me where no you can't. 

01:42:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, see like I'm worse than that reclining you gotta, you gotta. 

01:42:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Stick to your guns, you can't recline. I'm the biggest cuck. 

01:42:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm a jacob cuck right now, like this, like when someone reclines in front of me. It's very depressing first and foremost, you're like I'm taller too, like I always try to get aisle seats so I can put if short haul flights, I always fly. Um-haul flights, I always fly economy. Long-haul flights I always fly business because it's a little bit easier. But short-haul flights I'm going to Boston this week. I don't think If someone reclines I'm stuck there for a couple hours or whatever. I can deal with it. 

01:42:33
But I will never recline to the person behind me. I just suffer Good for you yeah. 

01:42:39 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm still suffering, though. Once you recline in front of me, I can't unsuffer just by reclining myself. It's true. 

01:42:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
You're all just suffering, yeah, but not only you're suffering. 

01:42:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's mutually assured destruction. 

01:42:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Paul and I tell you this, but as long as that button exists, people will recline. 

01:42:58 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
If I was here, there's a chance that, let's say, the person in front of this lady wasn't reclining. Yeah, I'd say, ma'am, here's 40 bucks. 

01:43:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Recline your chair for me. That's the truth. 

01:43:11 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
If the person in front of this lady I'd be like no, no, we're going to play this game on equal terms. 

01:43:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You would be that spiteful where you go two rows ahead of you to pay someone to recline. 

01:43:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I could never but that's awesome. 

01:43:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
If this person in front of me isn't getting reclined on, I'm making sure she's getting reclined on. 

01:43:31 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm never going to piss you off. 

01:43:33 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm never going to upset you in life man, rob, I've let you know I have a vindictive soul. I can see that I have a vindictive soul this is fucking. I might not do that in the open I'd see the person in the seats to a head. Get up, go to the washroom. I'm following them, I'm making my offer I think context matters a lot here. 

01:43:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If you're like this looks like a pretty small woman and you've got a big dude behind you, just don't recline. If you're a kid and you recline, your parents did something wrong, like though. But if you're fat perez and he wants't recline, if you're a kid and you recline, your parents did something wrong. But if you're Fat Perez and he wants to recline a little bit, I can see that. 

01:44:08 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think this situation of reclining kind of reminds me of grocery store parking lots where there's no rule that says you have to put your cart back. 

01:44:17 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's just the right thing to do. We could do a whole show on reclining. There's just the right thing to do. We could do a whole show on like Sorry Go. 

01:44:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Reclining, there's nothing that's stopping the person from doing it. They're allowed to do it, which is why. I just accept it, but I just think it's wrong, so I don't do it. 

01:44:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I agree, I'm in the same boat as you. 

01:44:30 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
If I can implement anything for air travel as like a respect thing, there should be a period when a plane lands. People who have connecting flights should be given priority to get off the plane. How is this not? Listen? I fly direct. 

01:44:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Some people are fucking barbarians, so I'm just going to put that out there. 

01:44:50 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I don't fucking change flights. There are a lot of people that do yes, sometimes you have to, and the stress. Sometimes you have to. Yeah, if you're going to really somewhere but. I'm just saying we live in Toronto. You take off late you get to your connection like half an hour the stress that you could see the person around you has, and there's this horde of people that just got to get out of the airport or get to their luggage. 

01:45:14
The airlines, the stewardesses should implement, and if people want to cheat, I've got a connector, let them go. Yeah, they're going to hell anyways. 

01:45:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I have seen that before. 

01:45:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Yeah, because maybe that's a class flight attendant that knows. We've got a lot of people here who've got to get to a flight. 

01:45:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Agreed, agreed, I'm with you, we'll do an air travel episode one day. We will get to that. Second, in our chopping block, I believe, was GRP. In our chopping block, I believe was GRP. Let's go to the second one here as we're running short on time here. Jacob, did anyone know that GRP had a GRP wins tout site? No idea. When was this? When is this reveal happening? I mean, he says he's been a winning handicap. I don't know how abnormally disfined these things. 

01:45:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I honestly don't know. I had a good year in 2018, but 2019 was a once-in-a-century disaster with a 27-39 record. 

01:46:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will say, at least he put that there. That is so funny. At least he put that there. 

01:46:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
First page. 

01:46:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
First page. 

01:46:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
This is the welcome page and he talks about it, although he agrees interestingly. 

01:46:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm getting a lot of respect for admitting to a bad year. 

01:46:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I would agree, I respect him way more. I mean my opinion. How for admitting to a bad year, I would agree, I respect him way more for it. I just, I mean my opinion. How did we not know about this? 

01:46:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't know, how did you not know about this, Jeff? This is your domain. Well, I never like deep dive. No, no, no, but sorry we don't have this right. 

01:46:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He's not selling picks. He says I will not be officially handicapping on this website other people's results but what's cost. 

01:46:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's monitoring other people's results and charging for it. You know what? Now he's just doing it for free, out of the goodness of his heart. We get to see Adam Chernoff's record on Mitch and Paul. 

01:46:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I remember this when I first started with BetStamp. This was like GRP considered himself a competitor, because I do remember this you pay me instead to track your picks. Wow, I can't change the notebook. You can change your record on BetStamp, which you can't. 

01:47:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You definitely can't. 

01:47:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
yeah, yeah, by the way, which he always can't do. So this was when I first started. This was a guy trying to be a competitor at BetStamp. 

01:47:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It was actually more plausible you could break into someone's house and change the notebook than it would be to change to the bets. 

01:47:18 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He is pretty much a pro gambling auditor. 

01:47:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, like he just wanted you to pay for his audits. I almost feel like I should fund this site for him and just have him keep doing it again. But I have to get to be able to pick all the cappers that he tracks. But I don't care about Chernoff and whatever it would be for free. Well, I think he should get paid for it. You pay him. 

01:47:43 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He gets paid, but it's a free service site. 

01:47:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah. 

01:47:48 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I've got to think about the business model a little bit more. 

01:47:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No one would pay for this. 

01:47:51 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You've got to support George. George gets paid. 

01:47:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
George is putting in his hard earned. You could nominate a capper. Upvote them and downvote them. 

01:47:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's cheaper than just joining Circa to be involved with. 

01:48:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm going to re-explore this idea. 

01:48:02 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I just have so many questions More. So on George's HTML website build. 

01:48:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm curious Geocities AngelFire yeah, did he hire a GoDaddy? 

01:48:19 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I'm just curious. 

01:48:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We'll get to the bottom of this at some point. 

01:48:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I can't believe this stayed. It's not that hard to build a simple website. 

01:48:24 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I know it's easy, it's super easy. I'm just curious, because it's George. It's George. I didn't even know he knows how to use a computer. I'm just fascinated how it was found and how it stayed hidden so long. 

01:48:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, okay, um, okay, I got there's about a million circle back tags on this endless and about. 

01:48:43
when I say endless, I mean it was endless debate between gamble's house and man of the vig I I honestly I had to stop. I had to stop following this conversation because I've never like I was consumed. I was wasting so much time trying to figure out what these guys were even arguing. I don't. I just chose to chop it from the show, even though there's like a million circle back, because I don't even want to talk about it. I literally have zero interest in people arguing hypotheticals and gambling on the internet who cannot again see the other person's point of view. In my opinion, one was clearly right and one was clearly wrong, but like I don't even give a shit. 

01:49:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like literally, I don't care, it was literally hundreds of tweets and it was so boring. 

01:49:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So much time wasted. So yeah, that's just like I don't want to talk about it. I'm just going to be very, very upfront with you. A few more here Bo Wagner. 

01:49:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This was last year. What would these odds be this year? He posted a picture. What does it even mean? What would the odds be this year? 

01:49:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I, I guess because, like jalen brown and I don't know caleb martin, like he's saying like price this with their current skill level exactly, I believe. 

01:49:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But he all right well herb jones has been been injured for months. Caleb Martin's on a different team. I don't that's such a strange Kind of not very good For the listeners, though he did not screenshot a FanDuel. 

01:50:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He took a picture of a FanDuel screenshot that is on his wall, like he has actually printed out a ticket and put it up on his wall Fascinating. 

01:50:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Humongous, Like a poster, size like a canvas sort of print. 

01:50:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Okay. Well, my eyes go directly to the top right, because that is Hogan Warrior Mania 6 poster. You'll never be able to pull one of those by me. Not only did he frame it, he framed it with his watermark. Like are we? 

01:50:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
fucking, how did you miss this? I thought that was great the watermark I. 

01:50:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You know, I thought that was a reflection sorry, the bow, no sign from the other side of the room is reflecting on this. No, so that's, that is wild. So he screen capped the watermarked picture, took it to one of those stores in the mall and said can you make this? I mean, it's bigger than 16 by 20. It's humongous. This is fucking enormous, this looks like I have a. 

01:51:10 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What's the size of this TV we're watching here? This is like a 75 inch. 

01:51:13 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I have a signed LaDainian Tomlinson jersey on my wall. 

01:51:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I feel like this is the same size. This is bigger than that. 

01:51:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, this is huge man. I mean I don't have the appropriate context because we don't see like a hand or anything else in the picture, but it looks to be a very, very large, massive picture. Have you ever printed out a winning bet slip before and considered framing it? No, I think we might do that in the new studio we built. 

01:51:36 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
The most. 

01:51:37 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I've like ever done. To honor a bet would be like I'd hit a golfer and I'd buy the shirt they wore on Sunday. Yeah, that's good, that's. Literally the extent to which I could do something like that, it ends with buying the hat or shirt the golfer that I just won. 

01:51:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
There's a level of narcissism that it takes to do something like this, like the ego you must have. Erica was married to that ego. I know tough. We're gonna get to the bottom of her story at some point as well. Uh, finally, let's end it off with um, our final one here, which is fucking ego joey knish tweeting rex buyers getting hacked by a crypto porn bot minus 1,000 caches. 

01:52:20
I don't really have anything to say about this, Other than that I'm not surprised, I guess. If there was three people on gambling Twitter that I would ever expect to get hacked by a porn bot, you guys know who they would be right, George George. 

01:52:36 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Obviously Rex oh porn bot. 

01:52:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Porn bot. 

01:52:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Rex. 

01:52:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I don't know who. The third one. 

01:52:39 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I meant like bot. 

01:52:40 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
In general, it would be very clearly George Rex and Fezzik no. 

01:52:46 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
George would be a bigger favorite than Fezz. Yeah, I agree. 

01:52:50 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
To me the most troubling part about that tweet is that if I saw that his page, I wouldn't immediately assume he was hacked. Have you heard from Rex? 

01:53:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, he didn't get the account back, obviously, which I mean that this is like worst nightmare stuff for me and I've talked about. If I ever get hacked, it will be the most embarrassing thing ever, because I put so much pride and emphasis into like really good passwords and password management, because I don't want that to ever happen. 

01:53:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's happened to me. You don't want it, it's a cold sweat. 

01:53:20 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
It's like a fear of mine anytime I see that, yeah, I change my password. Yeah, seeing what happened to rex made me change my password yeah, a couple months before. So I happened to do change my password, happened to pat mayo. 

01:53:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He got his account back. It happened to jacob's amateur hour sports account. They guessed his password was raptor, which it obviously was Raptor69. 

01:53:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's the new one. 

01:53:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
The exclamation point is the new one. 

01:53:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Alright, we've reached the conclusion of the show. Almost Got a little surprise for Jeff and Kirk here right now. What did I do? You will notice on the screen right now we have a picture of Matt Zalbert eating a banana which was dipped in marinara sauce. What are we doing? Right? 

01:54:01
now we have a picture of matt zalbert eating a banana which was dipped in marinara I have gone down this path before and uh, seeing as how I I think at least me and jeff agreed that zalbert's uh got a bad run of it on the spaces, I'm not doing it. We want to show solidarity. I'm not doing it. We have to show solidarity. I'm not doing. Not doing it, jeff, you have to do it. I'm a very picky eater. 

01:54:22 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
I know. 

01:54:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You're going to have to do it, I'll hold your mic for you, or maybe Jacob can. I'm doing it with you. I've done this before and I know how terrible it is, but I'm going to do it again. I feel like I'm not going to hate. It is the mics I'm going to have to like put this on. 

01:54:40 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Can I just eat the banana? 

01:54:41 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, I just don't want a screen grab like that? 

01:54:44 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Why do you need three Percy, like I can't just get, I guess a well, whatever I'm going to eat the whole banana afterwards. 

01:54:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm not going to let the banana go to waste. 

01:54:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
They're not ripe enough, I would say for marinara sauce. You actually want it to be not that ripe. I'm all right with this. I'm going for Italian for dinner. I'm having it twice today. 

01:55:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, this ain't Italian, this ain't Italian. Did you already dip? I was going to do like one, two, three. Well, you're going to get another one now? Sure, I don't mind that. All right, I would honestly say it's pretty good, you like this. Yeah, oh, my God, kurt, this is disgusting my man oh. 

01:55:32 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
God, I tried to take such a big bite so it would offset the marinara. 

01:55:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like so much banana. 

01:55:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Oh, it's just as bad as the first half. I'm not saying I'm going to do it again, but I don't mind it. 

01:55:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It's horrible, these are two things that should never go together dude, it should not go together. 

01:55:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like it starts off a little salty and then you get a bit sweet. It's not bad. Like bananas are pretty close to plantains or whatever they're called. It's just like those go on Mexican dishes. 

01:56:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It's a some of its parts Plantains are very different. It's marinara and banana. It tastes like you think it would, it's not like they don't make them worse. 

01:56:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Exactly, they don't make them better. It's exactly like you think it should taste. They don't make them worse. 

01:56:11 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
They don't make them better, it's just not a very good combo. 

01:56:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Kirk Evans, kirk Evans standing in solidarity. I think we've lost Jeff permanently now. No more surprises for Jeff. He's going to put in his future contract going forward. 

01:56:26 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
Anyone who knows me really well knows that ended exactly. They're not surprised by how that went. 

01:56:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That was tough. 

01:56:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I thought you were actually going to throw up in that garbage can. 

01:56:38 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
That was a visceral reaction. Yeah, it was off camera, but he went right for the garbage can immediately. I don't know what would have happened if there wasn't that garbage, can there? So thank you, there we go. 

01:56:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Thank you to Matt Zilbert for the inspiration Banana marinara sauce. I would encourage you to check it out if you haven't. 

01:56:57 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
He sits on the floor cross-legged doing that. 

01:56:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's not on the floor. 

01:57:00 - Geoff Feinberg (Co-host)
You've established he's not on the floor cross-legged, doing that to prove that's good luck. We've established he's not on the floor, but this is like a good luck thing or a flavor thing. 

01:57:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, he likes this he likes this, he goes to Flavortown on this he likes this. He also goes out on Wednesday nights because historically his best betting day has been Wednesdays, so he looks forward to Wednesday every week. 

01:57:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Has some Miller? 

01:57:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Highlifes at the bar. I'm coming around on Zilbo. I'll tell you right now, not this, this is disgusting. This one's fine, it's fine. Appreciate everyone who tuned in. Smash that like button down below. At least smash it for Jeff. He tried this thing, he's like absolutely, hey, try this at home and comment what you can try it. 

01:57:39
I haven't had marinara sauce around in a long time, but I come from an Italian family. It's kind of like sacrilegious marinara. Anyways, we'll be back next week. Circle back. Make sure you're subbed here, make sure you like. Make sure you leave us a comment. Peace out everyone.