00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions. Circle back right here on the Circles Off channel. Part of the Hammer Betting Network and presented by Underdog, this is the show where we cover the latest and greatest from gambling Twitter and throughout Gambling Twitter. This week we've had some amazing sports through the Champions League, through the NHL playoffs, nba playoffs, which is where we are going to be starting today's episode. So lots of great stuff beyond that. On the way, make sure you smash that like button if you do enjoy along the way and subscribe to the channel to help us on that road to 20,000 subs. If you're listening to audio form, you can rate and review five stars. 

01:22
The main cast is here with the A-Team. We've got myself Jacob, also known as the Giant here. We've got Nadeau in the top right corner as well. Jeff Nadeau, we have Chris Dierkus at Flop. No, lied underneath in the bottom left and bottom right. As always, it is Joey Kanish. How is everyone doing today? Chris, you're out of the cathedral area of your house. What's going on today? Did the comments get to you? 

01:46 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
No, they did not he lost so much on the NBA playoffs. 

01:50 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He's back. He's in a storage locker now, that's the real truth. 

01:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I have to rent out a. 

01:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
This is a storage locker. 

02:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Mike. 

02:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Vivian's wife was complimenting your background, actually Maybe the only person who actually likes it, but today she doesn't get to see it. 

02:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It is funny. It seems that if you're a woman over the age of 50, you like it, yeah, if you're not, you hate it. So that's kind of how it's been for me. 

02:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, as I said, nba playoffs is where we are going to begin for today's show, and we've had some all-time collapses pretty much every day in the NBA playoffs and it gets started with. Well, we're going to talk about the Boston Celtics here because the Boston Celtics didn't do it once, they did it twice, twice. They had 20-point leads against the New York Knicks in Game 1 and 2 of the NBA playoffs in the second round, and twice they have lost that game. But people have been quick to jump on the Celtics when they're up and say that they're going to win. Here's NBA Green Beans at Brett Feinstein saying you guys really thought the Celtics would lose game two to the Poverty Knicks. We're back, assuming this is when the Celtics are up by about 20 points. Well, elf brought it up. He said this is actually unbelievable. 

03:08
Nba Green Beans reactivated his Twitter account to victory lap the Celtics while they're up by 20, and they lost. He literally cursed the Celtics. I can't believe this. Yes, we have had two all-time Celtics clout, which I'm very much enjoying as a Celtics hater, and also I said it last on the Tuesday show. How does Trent keep doing it? He showcased a bet on the Celtics live money line minus 7,000, and ended up losing. It was $280 to win $4. $4. And Freud here says popular sports betting streamer, booker with Trent, shows off his live bet in the Celtics-Knicks game 1 of his research. So it's game 1, but still two of those collapses. We'll go to you, flup. You've been locked in with the NBA playoffs. You know you've been on the wrong side of some collapses. Well, you've got a lot of Cavs futures tickets here. 

04:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Just sum up the playoffs so far and victory lapping like this Well, at least I'm not stupid enough to victory lap while the game is up and the game is still on. I'm smart enough to wait until the game is over. But yes, it has been back-to-back amazing days, sorry, polarizing days, you could say. I was very upset when the Cavs blew the loss to the Pacers and I was very happy when the Knicks held versus the Boston. I have a lot of anti-Boston, pro-knicks series, so it was very interesting and it made it even better to see so many people that I want to lose lose, including NBA Green Beans, and Fosun has gotten the better of me sometimes. And even if the Cavs have to lose, at least he'll lose, lose, including NBA green beans, and Fosun has gotten the better of me sometimes. And even if the Cavs have to lose, at least he'll lose and it'll make me happy that way. 

04:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I mean, this is really the trifecta of enjoyment. I don't have a lot of hot takes here, it's just Celtics losing, really enjoying it, green being losing, really enjoying it. Fosun losing, really enjoying it, so really enjoying it. Foes and losing, really enjoying it. Um, so yeah, it's gone. Man and I love I'm kind of a pseudo nicks, like if I'm not rooting for the pistons, I'm all in on the nicks. Um, I don't know, I love the videos I love the fan base. 

05:20
I love the like the, the struggle of dick. So, to be to be honest, I'm loving it. I hope they do pull it off, although I mean I know we don't usually get. Joey K might have partaken a little Celtics series plus money last night. I'm not going to lie to you, so we'll see what happens. 

05:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Nadeau, you were quick to laugh at the Celtics. I love the video, very Stephen A-esque. After the Celtics lost. I'm enjoying the Celtics losing these two games as well, but yeah, what are your emotions on this? 

05:52 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, you know, the Trent thing is really funny. One thing we didn't talk about it wasn't really on Twitter. Not only does he do stuff like this, but did you guys catch that poker stream? He was on last week. 

06:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I saw he was on it, I didn't know what happened. 

06:08 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
So think, listen to this he was originally supposed to be on the show. He missed his flight or had some sort of flight issue so they brought someone else in. He had to wait for them to get knocked out. He had like a seven hour flight and didn't even play 10 hands. He was already out of the tournament. It's unbelievable. I'm blown away at his level of just. I mean he sat there for like two hours and waited for someone to get knocked out. Then he's without within 10 hands. But yeah, I love seeing the Celtics lose. I mean they've won enough. That area has won enough over the years. 

06:41
Portnoy even Dave Portnoy was gloating at one point last night and you know it's always good to see that happen. So, yeah, I mean NBA Green Beans has had his fair share recently of successes. We could say he's another guy that truly went high to low. Yeah, back to high. Yeah, I mean the whole activating account, ultimate peacock man in a way. There. You hate to be it, but you know it's funny. Flop. We didn't hear you mention much about the Cavaliers Interesting I will admit. 

07:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
when the Cavs were up double digits, I was making some memes and I was ready to post them on Twitter, but fortunately I am not as stupid as other people and I don't gloat until the game is over. 

07:27 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
There are also rumors. Whether you can confirm or deny You're actually that $250 that Elf has given away. That's actually a burner count of yours. Is that true? 

07:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, I can confirm one thing I do need that money back. I'm running out of storage locker. I might not have a place to live if the calves don't don't win the east soon. 

07:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You have been talking. I mean, you were victor, lapping the calves quite a lot in the miami series. Now, granted they, they smoked the the heat in four games and just destroyed them in game four. 

07:59 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But by the way, where do they have storage lockers with windows? I've never seen that before. 

08:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Hey, maybe he's got enough for a luxurious storage locker at the very least. Maybe we're going to get to like the shipping containers if game three doesn't go very well. 

08:14 - Rob Pizzola (Announcement)
Hey, Carl, it's toe doesn't heal. 

08:16 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Do the Cavs come back and win? 

08:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Absolutely All this has done is given people who miss the Cavs train a better entry price. That's all it's done. 

08:27 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Would you let me see what's? I got the odd screen up there, would you, if you weren't already up to your gills in? 

08:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I did run my numbers and I do show value. I make Cavs to win the East around 3-1, a little bit over 3-1. 

08:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
So series looks like there's 160 to 170 out there-ish. 

08:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I don't like the series at 160 that much, but I do like them to win the East at close to 4-1. 

08:54 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And this I mean three of their six best players missed a game, too, where they're down 0-1. 

09:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So that's not like, oh they you know, and Tidesboro may as well have missed, it Okay that might be true, but what's a Celtics excuse? 

09:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You know they had everyone playing. 

09:11 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean maybe Chris Topps, I think it says Lyme disease or some other long COVID or something. 

09:19 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I mean, when we look, though, at like just kind of stats and things like that, like what can go right, that we looked at just kind of stats and things like that, like what can go right, what didn't go right, and vice versa, I mean they're the second-best shooting team as far as three-point percentage in the league. They've shot the ball terribly. You've got to figure. That'll even itself out. They're right in both games. Obviously they have a much better chance than the other team. I mean, look, I don't know if I'm ready to say, Kendrick Perkins, they. I don't know if I'm ready to say, Kendrick Perkins, they have no shot. The Celtics, but you have to wonder. I mean, what is their psyche at this point? You now have to, I mean, go to New York. Yeah, I don't have any belief they can win. 

09:53 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
My only fear, as like a Celtics hater, is that they still win this series and then they're just even more fired up after winning this. That would be a pretty tragic outcome. 

10:02 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
The NBA. I mean the NBA, though. I guess if the Knicks win, I mean that'd be pretty good for the league too. I mean Pacers winning, though wouldn't. 

10:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm sure Adam Silver would not be a fan of the Pacers going deep. 

10:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Look, the finals is going to be Cavs versus Thunder and Thunder taking it in six. 

10:22 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
One other thing, Philip. How do you feel that you got to watch C Blaise celebrate every time? That is brutal. 

10:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
His number was horrible. It was a bad bet, and to see him parading it around just brings so much pain to me. There's other people I wouldn't mind, but not him. I don't want to see him. 

10:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
One more tweet I got to bring up here from Dan's Picks. I just remembered this one. This is so funny, but Dan's Picks posted the sportsbook at Very Big Tennis Better says the sportsbooks don't want you to know this, but you can get better odds in literally any bet you want, with zero additional risk, by parlaying it with the Celtics money line. Tonight, ahead of game two, that's exactly what I'm doing Pairing Celtics with all the following Just shared his bets as normal and then parlayed them with the Celtics and, of course, every single bet lost because the Celtics themselves lost that game. What an ultimate fumble there. Yeah, that is an absolutely terrible one. I'll move on to our next topic in just a minute here, guys, but a word from our presenting sponsor first Underdog, we'll get back to Circleback in just a minute, where I'm sure joey knish is moments away from delivering another horrendously bad take. 

11:29 - Rob Pizzola (Announcement)
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11:55
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12:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Next topic segment called bullying works potentially and maybe we bullied Fluff into getting back into his normal setup. You have to bully to get back in your normal room. What happened? 

12:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, my wife was on a call and unfortunately she's the boss of the relationship. Divorce lawyer. 

12:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
She's the breadwinner after the Cavaliers lose to the Pacers man. 

13:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Unironically, she is the breadwinner. I'm unemployed right now, so it's. 

13:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Nidoo you're muted. 

13:08 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
You're muted. I can't lie. I'm not surprised to hear that Flop's wife wears the pants. I can't say I'm surprised by that. 

13:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I was waiting for Nidoo to comment something I knew that was coming Flop is unemployed, but somebody else might actually now be employed with what they call a big boy job, because spinfluencer reports here that jeff rosa has gone private on twitter and deleted his dub club and says oh no bullying works. 

13:37
Bullying is a very strong term here, but uh, you know using it a little bit in a joking fashion, because jeff rosa was Rosa was a NCAA basketball better who got really hot last season decided to use that to sell picks which were likely not winning picks and they absolutely were not winning picks this season selling them on Dub Club and a lot of people called him out for that, said he shouldn't be selling picks and he's no longer on Twitter. He's no longer on Dub Club. But other people have said that's because Jeff Rose has said himself I don't really care what name I have, I know who I am. I won't even be on Twitter for much longer once I get a big boy job. So has actually potentially found employment. Daddy Roseman said rug pulled by Rose. So what do you think? What do we think the story is here? Was he bullied quote, unquotequote into leaving twitter and dub club or does he actually have a job? What do you think, jeff? 

14:31 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I mean, let's be honest, if he had a great season he would be touting next year. He can't wait for next year, right? I mean, listen, here's one thing that I will say and I'll date it back to, like some of this past week's episodes where there's always a comment about when they do shells picks, how do you guys not pick? I think one of the reasons that people are a little more willing to listen to what I have to say it's because, whether or not you like me, whether you're not like Kanish, whatever, we've been around here a long time. I take the fucking hits. I'm always here. I'm not going to just disappear. 

15:02
And I think there's a certain level of quit in in some of these young kids like jeff rosa. Look, you're gonna have bad seasons. Now it happened to be when he decided to sell picks. But you can't let people win, you got to keep trudging forward and people, I think, will maybe respect that. People that quit, like this I mean. And then you know, I think he kind of set the tone that he was going to get a big boy job soon, so it wouldn't matter. So it's almost like, yeah, I pulled the rug and fuck you all for it. I'm out. 

15:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Okay, I'm zagging. I'm going to applaud Jeff Rosa for doing what I think a lot of people on Twitter should probably do and I did a job, so Rosa's not going to make any money long term. And I will say to your point, Nadeau, he couldn't. He was not a guy who could take the heat in the kitchen. 

15:49
He was a guy after four losses in a row and people are chirping him, then he's like crashing out. Yeah, can't be wired like that. Also, I don't think the guy was any type of you know real talent when it came to college basketball origination. So, yeah, I think there's a number of young people in the space as to my tweet that you know talked to last week that probably are better off going the traditional career route. 

16:14 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
He also put a target on his back. I mean he had all these people just like praying for his downfall. You know he made it out like he was just the greatest you know hope in college basketball prediction markets. So he definitely hurt himself. 

16:30 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He couldn't take the shit and look, that's a good point though in a way, some people do need to just get a goddamn job. Here's your classic case of gambler's fallacy like had one good college basketball year and then was like this is it. 

16:40 - Rob Pizzola (Announcement)
This is what I don't have to work I don't have to do anything. 

16:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm just gonna make money off college basketball. This is what I don't have to work, I don't have to do anything, I'm just going to make money off college basketball. And then reality slaps you in the face as it can. 

16:49 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, I'm currently experiencing that too. I had a good year last year, quit my job and now I just can't win a game. So it's kind of unfortunate. But I am curious Do we think the bullying actually worked? Or was it other reasons, like, was it he couldn't take the heat and that's why he quit, or was it he maybe got a good enough offer from another job? That's what I'm very curious about I mean, we don't know. 

17:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I don't think that, just knowing what I know about jeff rose, I don't think he's, like you know, the, the ceo at, uh, you know, microsoft, or anything after this. 

17:21 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
So uh, but I I wish him well well, I will say, uh, I will say and I'm not going to put it out there I think I am aware of what he did in college and stuff. So look, if he got a job and this was just a placeholder my whole thing is why not just do both, if you can't work and do this at the same time? A lot of people do that. I mean, I guess it's. 

17:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I kind of agree with both of you where it's like he couldn't take the heat, but also like I think there's a lot of other sports bettors out there pick sellers who could go the same route. Where it's like, hey, you're trying to force something that clearly isn't working here. Why not just actually get a job? You said last week, kanish, how difficult it is in this day and age to become a pro better and to get your start. So perhaps more people should take this sort of career and this sort of decision. 

18:10 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You know what Next thing? You know you quit your job. You try and get you know. Go in the content space and you're in MoCon's DMs trying to get them on your show. So that can happen. It crashes out real bad, real fast. 

18:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I want to echo something Nish said, which was I think it's actually a very positive thing that he didn't try to double down and try to hide his record and become an even scummier scamier. Tout he accepted the L and moved on. I've seen a lot of people just delete the posts and pretend that the year didn't happen and whatnot, and continue to sell and scam. 

18:48 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I have you have to give him some credit in that regard why do I feel, though, he'll pop back up with a, but it won't be. It won't be like he. He knows better now he's been through it. Don't share who you are. You could still do the same and you never have to say who you are. 

19:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I get a feeling we'll see him again at some yeah, yeah, I agree, yeah, and look, if we see him again, we can take back everything said here, because because, jacob, real quick, when you're, when you're in this whole thing, you can always do the whole. 

19:18 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, bounce back time let's get it you know, it's like so he he has an ace in his whole card if he really wants to come back, I think. 

19:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I see the storyline where the corporate world isn't for me. I'm born for betting. I'm born for this stuff. 

19:35 - Rob Pizzola (Announcement)
I learned a lot in my time off. Yeah, clear head now. 

19:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Had some time off, ready to start, ready to attack the new college season. Yeah, I guess we'll see when the new college season I mean jacob, I mean basketball. 

19:46 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Is what? 

19:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
seven months away, a lot of things are going to change until then, I feel like yeah, hey, who knows, maybe something happens with a job, maybe he doesn't have the same position, who knows a lockout? But yeah, you're right, maybe we have not seen the last of jeff. Let us know in the comments. Have we seen the last of Jeff? Let us know in the comments. Have we seen the last of Jeff Rosa in the sports betting and pick selling space? Because I would say I don't think we maybe have. 

20:11
Let's move to some more sports betting content. We have Pamela Maldonado, a betting analyst with ESPN and other spots, who had some betting insight that was shared on Twitter in the last week or so. Here A bit of a long tweet here, but a message was sent to her. Said Pamela, what did you major in college or what should I specialize in to become a sports betting analyst? And here was Pamela's advice here Want to be in sports betting? 

20:37
Here's three lanes. Number one is the better route. You live in the numbers, grind every edge, track CLV and maximize ROI. Your life is spreadsheets, volume and discipline. This is a long game hustle. By the way, this has to be AI Like. There's no way this isn't written by AI. Number two analyst route you build models, maybe even set lines, work for a book or a data company. This is where master screen, stats, data science or econ can help. You're speaking the language of the books. And number three find out what a content creator with a better brain. You can fire picks for clout or educate, entertain and spark thought. Maybe it's video, podcast or writing, so just showcasing different ways to get involved in sports betting. But then this is the better one in my opinion. 

21:20
Here Somebody asked, I got a question. I see these analysts that do the betting advice like blank. Do they all really bet? I know blank. Does he bet big? 

21:31
And she says stop caring about bet slips. They've become a weird badge of credibility in sports betting community, but it doesn't mean they actually hold weight. It's hype driven, not process driven. If you're not buying picks, bet slips are just noise. Instead, if you're following content creators in sports betting, here's what actually matters. 

21:50
Is there thoughtful analysis with predictions? Is that analysis good enough to sway me? Either way? Are they transparent about wins, losses? Are they consistent? Do I trust this content creator? Any form of record shared? Ultimately, the trust you place in content creators and betting space should be built on how they analyze and present information. And there's a couple more sentences but it finishes off with don't follow the hype, follow the insight. So I'll I'll lead off quickly here, because it's like the the points here. It says is there a thoughtful analysis with predictions? Is that analysis enough to sway me? Either way, I think with any bet you could make, you could confidently do a write-up. That would give you a valid reason to bet one way or another, and I think that that's like a misconception with a lot of people that are sharing picks. But what did you think about this, philip? 

22:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
This is kind of ridiculous because if you want to be the analyst route, you can just get into, like sports content. You don't have to have gambling content. If you wanted to go into gambling content, you gotta have bet slips, in my opinion, because your opinion means nothing. If you can't put up there's, it doesn't have to be a lot of money, but at least something to show that you back your opinion. I I would rather trust someone's opinion that put their own hard-earned money in it than someone that didn't. What are they risking? If you want to do the no bet slip route, just don't bring up lines and don't put up odds or anything like that. If you have the gambling content, you got to have a bet slip and, honestly, the more you bet, probably the more credibility you have, although that's not entirely true because you can make money in other ways. But it does mean that maybe you've built your bankroll up and your opinion should have more weight in that regard. 

23:35 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm going to pull a Nadeau here. I can't stand this, bro. I can't stand it, and I had to swerve him before he could get it in. This is the people I can't stand on Twitter. When they post, they use the extra If you can't get it. That's the worst thing Elon Musk ever did in his life was allow the extend tweet or whatever the extra If you can't say it, whatever 280 characters. I don't want to Look at this. 

23:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
This is as you're saying I got to check if this AI. 

24:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Honestly, I think she just put together a search, put it in a tweet and tries like lecturing. Didn't Pozzola also give this? Wasn't there something that he, like, gave this girl some credit or they did? So there's, I got to find it where, but like that, he all loves Pam. She's great at this. I can't stand her. She posts everything like she's instructing a class, that she knows all the answers that she just typed into a search engine. Get this shit out of here. I didn't even read, jake. I didn't even read this until you read it here on the thing. So these are like. I see that I didn't follow her, but I'm scrolling right by. 

24:41 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'll give her credit. It looks like it's not AI written, but man, it gave me some. It did not pass the smell test, but hey, it looks like she wrote a lot for this one. 

24:51 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I want to hear what Nudu said. I she wrote a lot for this one. I want to hear what Nudu said. I know. 

24:57 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Nudu always has some very positive opinions on women in sports. I didn't hate the first tweet. Honestly, I thought it was all right. I mean, it is true, Like if you're trying to get into it, this is what you have to do. But then I also don't understand, Like I was always told when we were at Barstool. I was always told this is all you need to create content. Just go out and do it, Use the algorithms to your advantage, Do what you do. Yeah. The second one was rough, by the way. How do you even do those long tweets? I've tried, I don't even know how to do them. And then I was like, yeah, I don't really want to do this. How do you even do it? 

25:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You need to have a premium. I do? 

25:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Oh, you just keep writing and then it lets you post. I don't get the questions. 

25:36 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
No, it never lets me post. 

25:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You can't schedule a tweet that's over the character limit, though. 

25:42 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Let's just say this Can we end this conversation at least at this segment? This is why I mean have I exhibit? Number one is why we don't want to listen to women talk about sports. Jacob, if you asked me to talk about lip gloss right now, would you listen to me? No girl is going to listen to me. What the hell do I know about lip gloss? 

26:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think that this could be. This could have easily been a man or a guy who tweeted this, and we'd still roast the person. 

26:15 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
It's not just the facts. I wouldn't roast them as much, honestly. 

26:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Why not it's the same take. 

26:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Dude, the reason I wouldn't listen to you on lip gloss is you don't wear it. A woman can watch sports. There's nothing wrong with If Pam was a verified sharp sports better than we. 

26:36 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
but by all I mean, make your own conclusion there, but I would say, I would lean towards Del. 

26:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It's like related to poker. Like Foxen's, he's one of the top male players. His wife is also an extremely elite poker player. Male players his wife is also an extremely elite poker player. I listened to her opinion over hundreds, if not thousands, of pro poker player males before I would listen to her advice because she's actually elite and in the trenches. 

27:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It just so happens that pam isn't elite and isn't in the trenches of sports betting, so her opinion doesn't mean as much well said I, I just I I'm agreeing on the bet slips part, like it just showcased, like if you're gonna talk the talk, like you need to be able to show it as well. Again, the amounts aren't even really that big of a deal, unless you're branding yourself as somebody who's actually betting those huge amounts. But like, yeah, if you're gonna be giving out picks, you're gonna be saying people should bet certain things. Absolutely, you should be backing up by verifying that you're betting it yourself. Absolutely. I think you can be a woman and do that as well. 

27:40
But we'll move on to our next topic. Here Comes in no surprise here, but we don't have to spend too much time on this. But hey, it did happen and in the words of Jeff Feinberg I'll give Jeff Feinberg his flowers because he did say he wanted to bet that this fight would not happen between Sean Perry and Elf. And it's not happening and they're drumming up this story. That is just terrible. There's a very long tweet from Sean Perry here, but Sean Perry backed out of the fight, apparently. You can read this if you want. I don't really, I don't really care to. 

28:15 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I was actually hoping you'd read this one. 

28:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'll read it. Once I found out that Amanda Vance left simp little bitch boy elf's ass, he's got nothing I want anymore. She even told me herself. The dude is an absolute loser 24, poorer than ever. She got tired of having to pay for everything. She wants to be with a real man like me, someone with ambition, someone with a drive to go out and make money and someone who had who's had, a ton of success, not some little clown boy. I really hope that the heartbreak teaches alpha a life lesson. It gives some ambition to want to level up and be better in life to me. I picture sean perry here like a a parody WWE fighter in the middle of the ring with a microphone over embellishing the storyline. That is just not working out at all, and maybe Nadeau can appreciate the roasting of WWE a little bit. 

29:06 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Why are people that are born into major money wealth right? Why do they all act like that? They all act like it All of this Like they all act like it's like he worked the hardest. 

29:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
They've never been told otherwise. 

29:19 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
They've been never told off. Like it's just amazingly tone deaf, like to me with him, like everything is. He is the most narcissistic person I've ever seen on here. I've never seen a person. He literally cannot acknowledge anyone else exists in a positive way other than him. He always has to bring it back to how he's better than everybody else, even when he would come into the spaces can you hear me? And just go right in? Hey, how are you guys? He wouldn't say that, he didn't even give a shit, he just talked over everybody. And there's a few people like that in this space now and I. 

29:54 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You alluded to it, jacob, but I think the real story, outside of all the Perry mouth diarrhea that he spit out there, is it's because this thing was a complete dud. Nobody gave a shit. Like, honestly, this whole like month lead up of we're going to do it, it was a like it was over. There was no more sauce. People were sick of hearing about it, sick of caring about it, and I think just it was like oh, a pair is gonna be all this has no juice anymore. If everyone was like oh, my god, we can't wait for this, I don't think this, any of this, comes out, but I think the masses uh have have been completely sick of this for weeks, much less the last couple days. 

30:36 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Also, if you had real quick Flop, I'll ask you, because you're a guy that bets a lot of money, you're involved, both of you guys do Would there be something you'd want to do less that if you were a guy like he claims to have opulent amounts of money? He does what he wants, he's self-made. Would there be anything less you want to do than DM people to give you money for sports picks and like get on the phone and talk about let's print money Like? I would never want to do that, ever. I don't I don't get it. 

31:06 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm not really sure I understand that either, because it doesn't make sense, like if you're truly winning these millions and hundreds of thousands, you know, and betting all these hundreds of thousands of picks, why do you need the $1,000 for the pick package? 

31:19
It doesn't make any sense I mean, look, I understand getting every angle, but at a certain point I don't even bet like the $50 profit boost anymore, because it's not worth my time and everything like that. It's similar to like Perry, like, why are you going after it? I don't believe the story, but something that I am interested in is the Mozzie versus Perry fight. That was great because it happened so fast. They discussed it and then a day later. 

31:50 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's so authentic, even if some of it was maybe not, or they had some of it planned, whatever you want to call it. It was like you were watching a 24-hour what felt like a reality show around this all coming together, and ever since then they've gone the complete opposite direction of like, oh, let's have like a soap opera for a month of this shit nobody gives a damn about yes, and if, if, maybe this had taken a few days or a week yes, self-planned for a week, okay, the hype would still have been there. 

32:23 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
but every space, as it was coming and it was like let's talk about perry and elf fight for an hour and it's like we've heard the same thing over and over again. It's getting old, we're done with it. I mean, we have Jeff. 

32:37 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
What is this? A Shakur-Stevenson fight. 

32:39 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Those are two Jewish kids who can't box. I want to follow that for a month. Get the fuck out of here. 

32:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, I mean both Jeffs. You know our Jeff and the B team. Jeff called this perfectly. I mean, the fight never happened, it was all manufactured. It was a total dud, terrible job I I think, um, and I'll. 

32:59 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I I feel like I've told elphys and I'll say it again, like I think elf has gotten to the point where his whole life has become content, that he doesn't know what's real and what's not. 

33:08
He doesn't, and everything that he does even trying to attempt to get a guy who's probably the most hated person in Philadelphia right now on his show Like, like I think at some point and I always go back to this there are just certain things I'm not going to do to to get content. I'm just I'm not going to talk to certain people. And it's like I think he at this point is just so worried about everything being content that he just doesn't seem to know like, hey, people don't want to hear this, people don't want to hear from people like that, people don't want to hear about a fight that's never going to happen. And then he sets a fight with someone else and then he pulls out of that fight. It's I told him the other night. I said don't you think maybe it's just time to move on from this, going home wherever you decide that's going to be, and start something new here? Go back to the old elf shows yeah, that's what made it so popular. 

33:56 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It was, you know, having a, a prominent member of the sports gambling community as kind of the special guest and people would come on and ask questions. It's deviated very far from that. Again into that, everything is content sort of business here. So, yeah, I. I don't know what's next, but l? L's been trained a lot. I don't know what's next, I, but L? L's been trained a lot, I don't know what's next? 

34:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I want to ask him to do something, cause I remember in one of the earlier spaces and you said what are we going to do when we're not talking? You know every night like this. So I would ask do you think it would still be as popular and not as cringy if it was, if he had never deviated as much? Or do you think people naturally would have gotten bored because you were implying that it was going to get old eventually? 

34:36 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I don't know if yeah, but but I also didn't know it was gonna. He was still like, whether or not we agreed, like even a month ago, the shows even before even a lot of this fight stuff happened back when he was doing like the push-ups and stuff. Like the shows were still compelling, there was still a lot of compelling people in them, certain people were coming in regularly. Now it's just gotten to the point where everything's content and and you know what you have to do when you you behave like this and do content you always have to think of the next nonsense and you almost forget. You don't know what to do next and it becomes very wwe-ish, it looks very fake, and I think elp's gotten to the point where, like again last night with the whole con thing, like that's crazy, like I. 

35:20
I hit him up, I said dude, what are you doing with this? Like he's like what would be funny comment. I said no, no one likes this guy right now. It go back, get out of this. But I don't know how to answer that question, though, either. Flop, like I thought it would probably run dry sooner or later, but at least people watched it a little. 

35:41 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, betonline was sponsoring this fight. They had odds up for this fight. Feinberg was asking for odds for the fight not to happen, but like I don't really understand why there'd be. I mean, I guess it's just people funding accounts and they're betting on this stuff, but like I don't think this fight was ever going to happen from the jump. So I'm not sure why a sports book would be coming out to try and actually post odds for it. But we'll move on to your comments. 

36:05
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36:18
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37:04
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38:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I would. I would compare him to what I call like a uh less charismatic Steve Fezzik, where he like, do I think he can? He's probably like had like a winning better yes, do I think he can provide value in terms of his pick service to somebody like that? No, and I think he's kind of from that old school of you know you would use a lot of like it's been brought up on the show a million times Fez tactics. I'm going to send a DK line out to somebody when of you know you would use a lot of like what it's been brought up on the show a million times fez tactics. I'm gonna send a dk line out to somebody when everybody else is that type of business. 

38:42
Um, would be, I think, more in his realm. I think he's been, I can been around the block for a while. Just, would he be somebody who I would ever recommend? No, um, do think would I put him in the category of, like you know, man in the library or something like that? No, so again, whatever, I'm not going to say he's the worst pick seller in the world. I just I wouldn't, wouldn't vouch for it. I'll say that. 

39:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Next comment here we have Coldest Wallet who says I'm sorry, I've disagreed with Fluff on this before. If you bet sides and totals on the most popular slash, liquid leagues, you will not get limited. From your experience, fluff, can you get limited betting on sides and totals in things like the NBA or the NFL? 

39:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yes, you absolutely can. Only talking about recreational books At a Pinnacle or a Circa or a bookmaker or chris, whatever you want to call them. No, you're not going to get limited. That is a true statement. But I'm referring to the fando, the draft, kings of caesars, mgms of the world. You absolutely will. It doesn't matter if you're only betting sides and totals on nfl and nba. If you're a long-term winner and you get clv, you're getting limited. I've actually had accounts. I I've heard of accounts. I should say that don't get CLV win and still get limited on these recreational books. 

40:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I would just backflip there. Like it's, if you're betting an NFL game on a Monday and you're closing two points, good, or a college football on a Monday and closing three points, good, on the regular, it doesn't matter that it's a major liquid league, like, if you're, if you're winning, they're gonna get you. Yeah, maybe I would say, like you know, if you're betting NFL an hour before post on Sunday, then yes, you probably have a bunch of leeway there, but not unlimited. 

40:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
And people have always made the comment oh, it's just like the odd shammers or like the people hitting stale lines. That's not true. I've seen people bet in market or worst in market numbers on recreational books that close good and get limited. So it's not just the stale lines, it's as long as you're a winner, they don't want you there. It doesn't matter what kind of winner. 

40:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
They don't want you. Even like I'm not nowhere near a pro better, even I have struggles to get down sometimes on NBA sides in total. So I mean, if I can do it, then a lot of people can. So it absolutely does happen, yes. Final comment here comes from at. Charlie Bonds says if one of the main four is out, so one of us four, it probably would be better to have someone like Jason, who has more chemistry and is comfortable on the show. If you pick someone for their first time, they're probably not going to be very opinionated. And the first reply from gobsmacked123 says Jason is very hit or miss. His best stuff is A+ and his worst is an F Kanish. What are your experiences with Jason? 

41:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Well, charlie, I'll tell you why he wasn't in the fill-in because I would have quit this company. I said, if you're going to stick me with Jason, I'm out. I do, honestly, that gobsmacked comment, though I agree. There is the occasional episode where Jason fills in and he kind of brings some heat. I won't lie to him. Do I want the guy I haven't said this before Do I want him behind the scenes to produce my show? No, he's hungover from being able to watch the Leafs replays. The 3 am chugging beer towers instead of at work. So would I hire him as an employee? 

42:13
I don't know, Is he okay when he gets in the sheet sometimes? Yeah. 

42:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It also wouldn't make sense. You know, last time Nadeau was gone, but Nadeau's not very opinionated like Jason. I mean Nadeau barely has any controversial takes right. 

42:27 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, he also, I will. If you go back to the L, like one of the things that we don't see much anymore is Jason in there. He used to be in there carving people up all the time Every night. Yeah, and he was. I think when he gets into his sweet spots he's very good, but I feel like a lot of people are like that. Like there are times in this show where I'm very interested in what we're talking about and I'll give you an A take If I that's just a part of this business in doing that. But yeah, I will say, jason, rough haircut dude. 

43:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, after Mike Vivian's tweet today, it seems like you might need to reflect on your own personal picture. 

43:08 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
No, I'm only kidding, I'm a big fan. I like Jason. I don't think I've ever done a show with him other than Spaces, so I wouldn't mind seeing him. But I thought Isaac did a good job too when he was on. 

43:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I was going to say Isaac has done a good job on two occasions now and I think other people could as well. On Mike Vivian's stuff we're bringing up. Mike Vivian's wife called the do I think. She said he looks like a douche with his dad haircut which is why we're laughing. 

43:35 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is the Vivian family and this is like the Game of Thrones the two household that are going to here's what I'll say the. Vivians are going to go to war here. 

43:45 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I'll show some respect because it is his wife. But I'll tell you this, mike, you're running a real thin line with me. I got to tell you I'm not going to embarrass your wife. Were you Tone it down, my friend, please I do. 

43:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I do want to say I think in all seriousness, mike has a lot of respect and he does find you funny. He did DM me that today. He finds you funny, but he just loves the reactions you get. He likes to egg you on. 

44:11 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, here's what I'll tell you. Everybody in the group chat saw what I actually said about his wife, so you guys agree that it wasn't. No, it was fine, it was totally fine. Probably shouldn't say it on here. 

44:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Switching gears. On the guest topic, I wanted to actually put you guys a bit on the spot. Let's say, somebody is missing. Who is the dream substitute for this show? What do you guys think? Let's start with you, nadeau. 

44:37 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
That's a great question. Probably Zilbert. 

44:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That would have to be a show where I'm missing. 

44:52 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He'd be pretty opinionated and I think he'd be funny. Does the options have to be somebody from the other show or from the company? 

44:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Let's say anywhere, anywhere. 

45:01 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Oh man, I've got a bunch of people I wouldn't want here as a dream villain. 

45:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, my two dream ones I don't think would actually be good in here. One I want Penny Beater to be on here, but he doesn't want to do media. He likes being anonymous, so I know he'll never do that. But then, if you were placing me, I would love to see Shipper on here, but I know Shipper hates this too much so he wouldn't want to, but I think he'd be very entertaining. 

45:32 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think for me, the Twitter user user at I run so bad one would be a really good addition. If, if that could ever happen, I think that'd be an excellent one. But, uh, a lot of good candidates out I'll give my guy uh, what's his name? 

45:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
prop dude uh, who I've actually met and and uh, I know he knows some people I I enjoy his content. Uh, I don't know if he he's never actually done content, content, I just I don't think, but I enjoy his twitter account a peanut, peanut butter. 

46:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Mr peanut butter would also be very good too. He he's got a nice mix of serious and sarcastic and funny tweets, so I think he gets under, especially during college football season. 

46:12 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He gets under joey k's skin a bit, so he probably would be a great fill-in because we'd be going at it a little time but yeah, a loyal Hit the Books listener that's very opinionated about that I would also vouch for Prop Dude as a guest on the show, though I don't think they would appear on camera, maybe, maybe they would one day, we'll see. Let's go to a new segment that was introduced for the Tuesday show and it's our opportunity to fire back, return fire at I call them Team 1. I'm a little bit splittier, so return fire Any grievances that you guys want to air to the other show, any beasts that you have that you want to bring up, anything you disagreed with. Is there anything that somebody wants to lead off with? 

47:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I got a. I thought you guys would have some. I got a full list One. No, I don't like Rob. I'm not giving Rob the last word on the fucking gorilla version. 

47:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I was going to mention this. 

47:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm sorry, you had the worst opinion. And he's coming up with these niche scenarios of like oh, it's an italian guy and a chinese guy. How would they all communicate? 

47:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
he's on his heels. He's on his heels. What? 

47:22 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
the fuck are you talking about? Like, don't tell me, your line was horrible. Like any like wildlife expert out there is gonna tell you he's thinking it's like a godzilla movie or something. So that remains. That'll be the final word on it. I will. Also. The guy wants me like you want me to like hey, he's like, oh, anytime there's a woman involved. What did you want me to exactly say about the Amanda Vance thing and also Joey K? Sometimes this prep is not, you know, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. I'll be honest with you. I kind of forgot. I put all caps, yes, there in that. Amanda Vance I wasn't ready to absolutely slam on her, but the conversation we got her to pull whatever I like to drink from the bio. So yeah, those were a couple of the firebats. I don't think I have anything for Feinberg. I got something for Feinberg? 

48:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Okay, good, I don't. Look, I think Feinberg is very funny and I enjoy listening to him. Look, I think Feinberg is very funny and I enjoy listening to him, but every time he has a take he can't stop himself. He needs to get it in immediately and he always raises his voice so you can never hear the other thing that was going on and that irks me so much. Sometimes I want to hear what someone else. You've got to have some patience and it's very frustrating to hear him just like jump in and then always raise the voice so you can. You're. If you have headphones in here, they're screeching. Now that is a little problem. Overall, he's clearly a sharp dude. I mean, he nailed the perry take perfectly and it's very funny. 

48:58 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
But besides that, so a little bit of uh production insight to the microphone situation there. Um, rob and kirk get a five out of ten on their volume. Uh, feinberg gets a four out of ten because he is a little bit louder. Not saying disrespectfully, I I think he actually, if you go from, like, the first few episodes, he's doing a a much better job of of holding the take for uh to to, to, like let somebody finish. Um, but he is just, he's just loud and I'm not saying that's a problem, but I do have to turn his mic a little bit lower than the other two. Now, do you got anything? 

49:37 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I got no grievances, I I was fine with the show this week. 

49:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, I do now. I just remembered one other I had from the last episode. They were they were taking a shit on me for my take on green beans and thawne. Well I I gotta defend myself here. I didn't think the bet was made seriously because green beans and thawne didn't know each other prior they. There was no confirmation. Did any of them really thought they were going to collect $25,000? 

50:05
Like if I made a bet on Twitter with a random user that I've never met before. Don't have a voucher for that's not a real bet, because I'm never expecting to collect. The bet was never real and Brett generously gave him $1,000, which I do not think he even needed to. Brett looked like an idiot, that's fair, but I don't think he needed to pay the full $25,000 because the bet was never serious. 

50:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
If it was to Nick's point, it was $500. Maybe that amount of money you're not just you need Feinberg actually had the best point on this one. You need more than just like the tweet. You need a double confirmation, like in the DMs hey, we're doing this. Yes, do you want to like, post it somewhere or any of that? It's not just like boom, boom, boom, okay, we've got 25k on the line, uh, so no, I'm not. Listen, if you think I would pass up an opportunity to roast green bean if I had it, you're out of your mind. I just, in this scenario, I don't think it's uh, I don't think it's warranted and I thought I had a fine resolution I. 

51:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I would just never make a bet. I wasn't actually thinking I wasn't going to pay. I would never make a bet as a joke online, especially in this space. 

51:13 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Has anyone ever not made a bet where, like, I'll bet you a million dollars, right, right, right. I've done that, maybe when I was 10. Yeah, no, no. But like that's similar to what happened here, because $25,000 was an absurd amount of money that neither of them were going to pay. I mean no way either were ever fully intending to pay that amount. 

51:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right. Well, we'll see what the Tuesday crew can come back with when they have a chance to rebuttal some of the takes from this show. In order to keep up with all the shows, make sure you're subscribed to the channel, following us on your favorite podcast platform. Drop a like if you're enjoying along the way. Next topic, here Swallowed by Variant. This comes from JFar2Nice. It's something that Fluff specifically wanted to talk about here today. So SpinFlinter brought this up. At first saying we want to see the tattoo, because JFar2Nice said if. At first, saying we want to see the tattoo because Jay Fart's too nice that if I go under 1000 units of profit I'll tattoo. Quote the tomato brigade one and quote on my ass. And then the showcase. 

52:18
Yes, the overall picks had dropped below 1000 units of profit, but they had a bit of a back and forth on that. But these tweets, I think, think are a little bit better. Uh, he says I'll leave the Twitter spam with this. If this, really, if this is really the end, and now I get swallowed by variants, then so be it. Good run, if I pick it back up and get back to my ways, I won't get credit from half half of you, so who cares anyway? Either way, I'm content of you. So who cares anyway? Either way, I'm content. Next chapter and the final tweet here. 

52:46
Somebody had replied to him saying think you're a very likable guy and you've been in the industry for a while. In this down thing I haven't seen you change your process much. Maybe I'm wrong, but why not try a different approach? Mega lottos and laddered lottos are the majority of your place. And then Jfartunite says this is the first logical con I've seen, so I'll address it logically. I've wanted the same thing. Obviously, winning plus 1000 units is fantastic, but from whatever starting point, minus 100 units is bust. Maybe I was too wide. I gotta address that with myself. But trying to erase history is weird, so flop. You wanted to bring this up here. Um, what? Give us a little bit of a backstory, exactly who this user is. 

53:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
First, he's just a another classic talent. They specializes in the long shot um variety a lot of sgps, a lot of like parlays, and he was upswinging a lot and at one point I do think he had a legitimate. This was like many, many years ago, but as of lately I'm not convinced, and he's always like bringing up his past record and yada, yada and how many units he's up. And now variance is finally caught up with you, because if you're not a long term winner, you can't sustain the success for all these years. And there's a couple of things here that I want to address. One, being up so many units while being a long-shot bettor is extremely misleading. It's like if I made a dub club and I started betting 20 to 50 units on every play and then, like a year from now, I was like I'm up 3,000 units. Well, that's not really a real 3,000 units because I could have down, swung like 500. One unit is supposed to be 1% of your bankroll and if you go down like 40 or 50 units at one point, you lost half your bankroll. Like that is pretty brutal and people cannot handle that. This is why, like even in betting minus 110s, you can go on some brutal 10, 15, 20, 30-unit downswings. So to float your record and flex your record is very misleading, in my opinion. 

54:52
The second thing is addressing the changing of process. You need to evaluate why you're losing. The nice thing about betting straights and whatnot if you're not getting CLV, you know why you're losing. Clearly something is wrong. But if I lost 20 units or 30 units or 50 units, but got CLV in every one of my bets, I wouldn't change a damn thing, and that's something you have to. It's not the results that matter, it's why you're losing. Are you getting bad numbers? If you're getting good numbers and you're losing, there is variance, you can't just lose. So I think you're being very results-oriented and it shows that maybe you're not as good or better as you think you are. If this is what you're thinking Like, oh, if I'm on a downswing I've got to change. Not always the case. 

55:40 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Any thoughts you could wish? 

55:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's tough because I actually in the early days of the spaces this guy was on frequently. I actually liked them, like his commentary. I thought he was, you know, like a reasonable person. I liked hearing him speak in that compared to like a lot of the people that were on the panel. But yeah, it's one of those that all he was on the spaces a lot. 

56:03
Then the massive downswing happens and now it's kind of crickets from and so, um, yeah, I think, like a lot of cappers, he was using the space to try, and you know, get some more brand promotion and that and I fluff kind of nailed it with the whole units thing. I'm up. I thought, you know, like if I went back to the start and you know, did like how many units that I want, and then I was like keeping that like a seven. You know how many units I've been. It's almost a little uh, this is more kirk's bag but a little ras-ish where like, oh, we're up, you know 500 units from inception. You're talking about plays that were in fucking 2011 or something like that. It's like, well, what? I don't know what you're really getting. Do I still have that edge in 2025? 

56:50 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
something I want to mention just from speaking for personal experience. Since when I started betting to now, my units have increased by 50 to 100 times. So if, if I went on a 50 50 unit downswing now like that, that is a monster loss that I cannot afford. Because if you're not rescaling, then you can't. These discords advertise themselves. As you can build your bankroll up, you can win units and then increase your unit size. Well, that's not the case if you're going to go on these big downswings. 

57:19 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
This is why I'll give Fineside credit, because Fineside has been in the spaces, regardless of whether he's looked like a complete idiot or not. He may have lost, he may have had to delete his account, he still shows up. This guy I agree, was there early, seemed all right. Reminds me a lot Kanish, you remember years ago, like some of the old tout sites, like the Brandon Langs of the world. Yeah, they would do the whole. Like 300 unit bomb. Yeah, yeah, like also. Maybe I'm wrong, but this guy just strictly bets, parlays like well, big parlay. 

57:54 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He says he's bet straight, but I've never seen a single straight bet posted. I could, I could be wrong. 

58:00 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, so it's like maybe he just hit one big parlay and that was mostly why he's up. So much. 

58:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I will defend him a little bit. I think, of all the touts, he's towards the top of being one of the better ones. I don't recommend purchasing him and I do not think he's a long-term winner. But if you compare him to someone like SGP Vic not even a comparison. It's disrespectful to Jay Farr to compare him to someone like that. But he says he's bet straights, but all I see is straights parlay. Well, that's not straight. I'm not in the discourse so I can't speak. I would love to see you know counter evidence. I'm happy to rescind the statement, but I think a lot of his biggest hits that he gets posted are parlays. 

58:45 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
And that's what gets people to come in, because the fear missing out, etc. I forget who it was. Maybe you remember kinesh, I don't know. There was a guy years ago that used to bet parlays and let's say he bet a 14 parlay. He would lose the parlay because one would lose, but he would still say why went three and one? I forget who it was. I maybe I'm crazy. 

59:04 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
You could have just bet these straight. You'd be three. Yeah, I think that was a good thing. 

59:09 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, it was always like well, you know, for all the people that bet them straight, which there were people, they went three and one. 

59:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Or the best one today is watering it down. If you have like a home run parlay, oh, yeah, oh well, all of them got a hit. So if All of them got a hit, so if you'd watered it down a little bit, you would have won. 

59:24 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
That's what I'm going to do next NFL season. I'm going to take a parlay of all 16 games in the NFL and then I can just claim victory, because if you had watered it down to the exact combination and actually hit, you would have won. 

59:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
So this is Well you could have done. You could have watered down the Cavs bet just to win the first round. 

59:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Exactly. You could have watered down the Cavs bet just to win the first round. 

59:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Exactly, that's a good point. Cavs 4-0 was a 2-1 payout, the same payout as the East, so I mean that's the way to do it. 

59:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
All right, let's go to our next topic here. Being wrong is good. Now, apparently, jared Smith-Betts, who's featured on this show before, does sports betting content. We've featured him, I'll be honest, mostly negatively, but sometimes positively. Don't think that is going to be the case for this one here. The person who believes they know everything learns nothing. As I dive deeper into gambling as a career, the more I've accepted that being wrong is actually a positive result. Certainty is the enemy of growth. Well, I think this will be spun positive, based on how I think this will go. What do you think they do? 

01:00:33 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Can I just say one thing about this. This guy's reading way too much like Sun Tzu and these proverb type things, because it's like I don't know. There are times where like I'll sit here and and look, I've had some viral tweets a lot recently and like I'll think, like what's the next thing? I can say that's just going to be really. Then it's like, but then again, it's not funny. I'm always generally me, I'm just gonna. If it comes to me, it comes to me. This guy it seems like and I he seems like a nice enough guy. I don't know him too well, um, but he has had some weird tweets the last couple of weeks. I've I've seen and I'm just, and it's always like yeah, well, and it's weird like winning's bad. It's like well, no, it isn't, it's really always good. 

01:01:14 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You know, I don't get this guy sometimes kirk picked up on this, uh, from the other, it was like his type of tweets have kind of taken like a 180 around, like he used to tweet a bunch of kind of like typical square content type of stuff and now, as they do, is alluding to, he's kind of trying to be like more of like a Machiavelli. 

01:01:38
Yeah, yeah, like deep thinker and I'm going with this very I don't know. Listen, I don't follow Jared Smith. I see some of the tweets come across sometime. I'll leave it at that. 

01:01:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I think some of his tweets are stupid Maybe majority of them are but this one I agree with. I mean, this is a great tweet. In my opinion, you definitely learn a lot if you're wrong. If you can truly change your opinion, that's the best way to grow and improve, especially as a better. I mean, no one gets CLV in every single bet. No one wins every single bet. You certainly did something wrong, so you can always be improving, and learning why you're wrong is definitely a good thing. That being said, it's like coming from him, it looks stupid because he's not that good of a better and he's not that sharp. So if it came from someone more respected, okay, it probably would come off much better, but coming from him, it doesn't look the best. 

01:02:44 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Alright, that brings us to the final segment here, the chopping block. A couple of quick topics here that didn't quite warrant full segments, but we still wanted to talk about here. A couple of Ndu ones to start us off At. Viva Le Stool posted why didn't Jeff Ndu get the okay to bring a batty? That was a question asked by Ryan Whitney and Dave Portnoy said he should have. What's the story there? 

01:03:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Jeff, what's the real story? Because there's other people at Barstool that say he was given the. They're not agreeing with that. 

01:03:14 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
No, here's what the story was. I was contacted about three weeks ago to come to the Bet Gala in Scottsdale. Thought, okay, that would be cool. I got this girl I'm messing with. She likes Scottsdale, this would be a great thing. We go out there for a couple of days. She comes with me to the bet gala, we get dressed up. It would fit perfect. So I say to him, can I get a plus one? He says to me, no, no, plus one. 

01:03:41
I thought of it, said well, I'm not going out there for 24 hours, it's a six-and-a-half-hour flight. It just doesn't fit. I would have went out for a few days and I declined. No one at any point said it was okay for a plus one. If that were true, I'd have come with a plus one. Who said you couldn't bring a plus one? The guy that reached out, the guy that reached out, basically this guy, jack McCarthy, who handles. Now again, I will also say I still could have went, but to me, six and a half hours alone for a 24-hour period, to me I didn't feel was worth it. So I guess you could say there was more than just that. But that was a growing point in why I didn't go. 

01:04:19 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, somebody has another theory here JFK underscore Chicago says Jeff Nduk can somehow never got a flight to barstool events and if you connect the dots because he's on a no-fly list. 

01:04:30 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
But that's just me yeah, this, this continued rumor that is actually starting to affect me personally. This is a fucking rumor. I don't know where it comes. In fact, I know the shit bag that it came from. Um, I'm not on the no fly list. I've actually shown airline tickets. People still don't buy it, but I got a little something for some of them. In a few weeks I'll take a video of me on a fucking plane and say hi to the fucking stewardess fucks up. But you know, the funny thing is about these shit bags that still wouldn't matter. It's AI or it didn't really happen. I can't ever win anything with some of these fucks, especially that scumbag JFK Chicago. He's one of the bigger scumbags on Twitter. 

01:05:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I can't wait for the video. I'm excited for this. 

01:05:20 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
You guys realize, if you go Google Jeff Nadeau no fly list it says I'm on the no-fly list. 

01:05:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I know I've done it. Yeah, that's what I guess. 

01:05:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'm not going to lie I thought there might have been some truth to it. Because I've seen it so much, I feel bad that it's negatively because I didn't realize it. 

01:05:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I look forward. You're going to be on the plane with your girl. 

01:05:45 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
You're going to a stella with you. It's gonna be a really great video. No, but then it will be. Oh, um, he probably just got off it, or this is his first day off of it, or he bought her. She's not real, she's actually a guy. It they always move the fucking if you type it into google. 

01:05:57 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Ai says yes. Jeff nadeau has confirmed being on the no fly list list. In a tweet he stated yes, I'm on the terror watch list. According to a tweet posted by Jeff Nadeau. 

01:06:09 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
There might have been a night where I joked around and agreed, but I'm not on the fucking no-fly list, All right glad. 

01:06:15 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I would have gotten a passport if I was on the terror watch list. Are you going to be a bebesh? 

01:06:21 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I'm not sure, but I don't know that I've been invited. But yeah, that would be another. 

01:06:26 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
good yeah, because we saw you there. That'd be nice. They'll say oh, he drove six six days he drove. 

01:06:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I'll believe you when I see. I believe you now, but I'll believe you for sure when I see the plate, the video on the plane Next up we've got from Michael Girdley here at girdley. Hopefully I said that correctly. Gambling has changed pro sports forever. Here's how. I was at a spurs game. A stranger sitting next to us had a big bet that the opposing team star would score more than 25 points. The star was at 21 points three minutes to go. They were way up so he wasn't trying hard. At a quiet moment we yelled to him this guy needs you to get 26 to win 10 large. He turned to us and calmly said I got you that. He took the next four shots, finished with 27 and hit the bench for the night. Is that bad or good? I don't know, but we cheered like hell. Kanish you you quote, tweeted this as things that never happened. Uh, what was it? 

01:07:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean, why was that your reaction? This is maybe the cringiest, most cornball tweet I've seen for like I in regards to the like, somebody that obviously has no involvement in betting whatsoever. I don't know why he even made up this story, like to probably like to draw in some views or takes or anything. I don't know where he got this from. If you've ever seen any videos of NBA players on the bench, they're 100% ignoring anything around, like no fan is, like no one's getting into them and being like the entire story is like absolute bullshit. 

01:08:00 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Well, apparently he's on the court in this story, as it's happening I will say just and this is a lame story, it probably didn't happen, humble brag when I was a kid, we had season tickets to the sixers right behind the media. So when the media, when they walk up like and I was there every week, so I would get to know, like I and I was there every week, so I would get to know like I had refs that would talk to me, players would talk to me. Shaq used to say hello to me. I used to. I was a kid, I used to wave Is it in the game or before the game? 

01:08:25
Cause that's very it's like when they'd walk up to like you very different pregame is very believable. This he's saying this was in the game. And to jacob's point, when they're in the game they're on the zone. Did anyone talk to you during the game? No, I I. 

01:08:46
I do remember one specific and I don't know if you guys know this ref. There's a ref, derrick stafford. He was a pretty new ref at that time. I was jumping on him one night. I was maybe like 13 or 14. He actually told me as he ran on the court to shut up at one point. I remember once he told me to shut up and my dad laughed and I, I just I stopped. But you done as Haslam, I used to screw with him all the time. I used to, you know, break his balls and he would turn around and talk to me. But yeah, the whole like this is like you know, game, yeah, I got you and then he goes and takes a shot. Got you? Like that's corny. Who is this guy, by the way? Is he a? What is he? I actually don't know. 

01:09:21 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Well, I don't know. He was like in the people. He was like replying to everybody that replied to this. My quote tweet too. 

01:09:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Like it was. Obviously he was doing it for. Oh wait, where did he like entrepreneur? Okay, this is a classic engagement. I mean, he forgot the yeah. Then the stadium erupted in cheers at the end. 

01:09:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I mean that that's like the classic uh tweet oh he's got, yeah, he's got some rough ones here, jeez I'm just like, because, like the way this is described, like it'd be like, like what would be the game state three minutes left for a player, just to like, just take it upon themselves to make the next four shots. 

01:10:00 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Also Kind of seems like match fixing too, doesn't it? 

01:10:03 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, this is definitely illegal. 

01:10:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Also like if they have 21,. What is the combination to make four shots and finish with 27 points? 

01:10:15 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Two, threes, I guess. 

01:10:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
He made the next four shots. 

01:10:18 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Yeah, wait, yeah. Does this even make sense? That's a good point. 

01:10:22 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, I don't know A lot of this is non-believable to me. 

01:10:26 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Also real quick. The fact that we cheered like hell is pretty funny too. Cheered like hell. 

01:10:33 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Next tweet comes from SharpClarkNFL. Sharpclark has done some content on the Forward Progress YouTube channel, which is the Hammers NFL content division, but does not like when managers in baseball games go all out to yell at umpires. It says gotta say I don't love the whole aggressive manager yells at umpire in the baseball thing Feels like a remnant of toxic masculinity. We could move past this has to be. 

01:11:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
well, this is a terrible take because, nish, maybe you can speak on this, but like there's definitely ref bias in home home court advantage baked in and that's mostly due to the animosity of the fans and the coaches yelling at the refs and umps, depending on the sport, I actually think it would be negative expected value and hurt the team if the managers didn't yell at the umps because they might not get as many future calls in their favor. 

01:11:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And it's entertaining, like I love it. It's fun to watch. I love when the manager goes out and rips out. I don't, I got to tell you. 

01:11:37 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
You guys actually take this tweet seriously? This is obviously. 

01:11:40 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I got to tell you this is serious, this is 100% serious. 

01:11:42 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
If you know, Sharp Clark's history. If this is serious, this is 100% serious, yeah, well. 

01:11:48 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
Sharp Clark, you're a fucking pussy. Throw the fuck out, get over your fucking self. Holy fuck, holy, he's one. He is definitely. Did you take your tampon out today, bro? What the fuck are we talking? 

01:12:02 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
about here. I never looked at a manager yelling at a ref and thought toxic toxic masculinity. Uh, jesus I I do agree with fluff a little bit though, though. From playing sports I played sports university. It's not about changing the call that happened, it's about getting the next one, and that's what the communication even somewhat abrasive communication with a ref, can get you, Because the next time there's that 50-50 sort of sequence a lot of times that's going to sway in your favor the next time and dude, you might know this. 

01:12:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Was it Super Bowl or was it one of the championship games where there was clearly a make-up call, like there was a blown call and then the next play or a couple of plays later, there was clearly a make-up call. I feel like it was this Super Bowl, but everyone knew what was going on. 

01:12:52 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
It happens, every game yeah. 

01:12:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
I can't quite remember exactly, but I remember that sort of thing happening and they happen. They happen for sure, yeah. 

01:13:01 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
I'm blown away. That's a real tweet. I have to comment on that on Twitter as well. Holy fuck. 

01:13:10 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Last one here. I audibly laughed when I saw this tweet, so I'm happy you got it included. The last tweet from Chuck Is it Chuck Bass, chuck Bass? What is it Bass? Chuck Bass? Chuck F Bass says Wife is furious because on our son's birthday, the actual day he was born we were looking at photos of the day he was born and there's a random screenshot of the line's depth chart mixed in because I was talking shit to some casual online. It's a grid of photos, nine of which are photos from the hospital, from the delivery room, and in the middle of it is, yes, the lion's depth chart sandwiched in here. Uh, have you guys ever had such an occasion where maybe you're in a serious environment but you're engaging in online beef? Has anything like this happened to you guys? 

01:14:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
This is so funny because I've done this before and I've had this experience where I'm in a real setting that's kind of serious and I'm scrolling through Twitter, I get pissed off and I've got to take a break and make sure I assert that they were wrong, and I definitely laughed out loud at this one. This was great. 

01:14:19 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I had to like make sure that I like did a double take to make sure it wasn't like stolen from my camera roll that there was a random lion step chart. It's a photo. So, yeah, I agree I don't. And this guy I didn't even, I never heard about. I had to look to see like, is this even like a lions guy? He's not even like a old roto world type guy. That was just uh, obviously arguing some, some lying stuff. So yeah, I'll give chuck the props. 

01:14:39 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
It was solid I would do you. How often do you guys delete photos? Because, like this photo, wouldn't last like more than a couple weeks on my phone, I would probably go through and clean up the real do that. 

01:14:50 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I don't think I've ever deleted anything I, yeah, I'll do like a mass deletion every, maybe once a year how? 

01:14:56 - Jeff Nadu (Co-host)
How many photos do you have in your phone, jacob? Oh God. 

01:14:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Well, I think it might be different for you, jacob, because you're actually in a lot of content, so you might have tons of photos and you might not have enough space. 

01:15:07 - Jacob Gramegna (Host)
Yeah, I guess you know when this video is on your phone, like they're getting posted, it racks up space, but I do it mostly for storage space. Maybe I racks up space could, but I do it mostly for for storage space. Maybe I'm showing that I can't afford a good enough storage plan, but uh, I'm scrubbing like every couple of weeks and I'm still running the storage spaces from time to time. But I don't know. Let us know in the comments if you're. Somebody deletes often or not. 

01:15:31
But either way, congrats to him on the birth of his child yes and uh, but what did not take precedent over an online argument over the Lions depth chart? That's what sports really means to everybody. But that'll do it for the show. Anything, you had an opinion on. Anything you want to review, please. Please, comment something down below. Maybe you agree with something, maybe you disagree, and hey, if it's good enough or bad enough, maybe it'll feature on next week's episode. But you don't have to wait a week for more Circleback content. We're back on Tuesday with Team 1. I'll be included as well in a production role, alongside Rob Azula, kirk Evans and Jeff Feinberg, as normal. So make sure you tune in. Subscribe to the channel. Help us unroll the 20,000 subs. Drop a like if you've enjoyed. Take a moment to rate and view five stars if