00:00 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Disclaimer the content presented in this show is intended for entertainment purposes only. All opinions expressed are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any individuals or organizations mentioned. Statements made about public figures or entities are based on publicly available information and are not intended to harm or defame any person or business. This show relies on fair use of social media posts, which are presented in good faith for the purpose of commentary and criticism. 

00:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Viewers and listeners are advised to form their own opinions it's circle back right here on the circles off youtube channel, presented by underdog. This is the show where we review the week that was in gambling twitter and we give our commentary on it. That's what the show is. You don't have to tell me that in the comments every week. That's what the show is. 

01:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You don't have to tell me that in the comments every week. 

01:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's what the show is, precisely what the show is Kirk Evans, to my left, uncle K, joey Knish in town. 

01:10 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I hate to see that Feinberg's ducking me on the first episode I come in here. I thought we were going to do 30 minutes on Palestine, with Feinberg here head-to-head, oh my. 

01:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
God what a way to end. What a start Instead. 

01:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
now he's nowhere to be found. He tells me he's in Arizona, so yeah, that's hey. But hey, great to be on the show. 

01:31 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Now you're not here by choice. You lost a bet. 

01:33 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean listen, moreto had to any time losing to Moreto, so I had to come in. But yeah, taking the seat that was well should have been mine from the first place if I was a little bit more local. 

01:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We might all live in the same country one day. 

01:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Not that far away. 

01:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You never know. Joey Kanish lost a bet on the Four Nations Cup final to Moreto. Technically, you're supposed to be wearing some Canadian gear today. 

02:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I should have grabbed some. Maybe if Moreto showed up to work then he could have brought it. It's true, it rarely happens Spring training baseball. 

02:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Now it's over for him. Yeah, the work is gone Way down. Jam-packed show tonight, as always. Hashtag circle back for everyone on Twitter Out there. If you want to use that hashtag, we see it on a weekly basis, except for today. You know how hard it was to put together this show. Twitter is down. You know how reliant. I realized how reliant I am on Twitter. I hopped in my car this morning. I'm coming to the office and I'm like I want to hear the Jeff Nadu origin story that they did on Spaces last night. I didn't listen live. It's not working, it's down. Nfl free agency starts. I had to go to Adam Schefter's Facebook page to get NFL free agency. Luckily we're back in the mix a little bit here. But yeah, I don't know if you guys felt the same level of pain, like I'm reevaluating my life as it stands right now. 

03:00 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I have no clue who's out and in in the NBA today. That's the only way to get the news is through Twitter, you moving over to blue sky. I will not be doing that. 

03:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will not be doing that. I don't even think the news guys are posting on blue sky my only message on blue sky is something like anti Feinberg. 

03:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's my one post of like for him trolling me to be on there. 

03:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's actually really funny I didn't know that that actually happened, but we did end up putting a show together. Uh, and again, we do use that hashtag every single week. If you want to use it on social media, we do check it and that's how we construct the show. And I think the number one topic that, like in the history of this show, the number of circle backs that I saw on this one topic was enormous I don't know that I'll ever compare and that's George Riley Panagakis. 

03:47
Grp wins Dropped some hints that he was going to be selling his NFL plays this upcoming year, and then he did confirm it on the Elf Spaces. That very night he tweeted I just placed a big bet on the NFL draft. I'll give details in an hour when I get home. Mickey said are you starting a paid vip for next nfl season g? He said I'll give you a hint to see my bets on nfl sides before kickoff will no longer be free. 

04:14
Uh, jeff benson reacted, as did the entire twitterverse um, grp, absolutely dogging, churn and last year, only to flip the switch and go full. Tout is the stuff of legends and what this app and industry is made for. I will 100% be supporting little Georgie and subbing to his service pending price point, presuming he has at least one entry in Circus Survivor. You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Um, I didn't even know, like I don't even know, how to react to this, other than I found it really weird, um, the amount of support that I think he was getting for this decision, whether it was fake support or real support. I, I did, I just it was like a unique situation in and of itself, which I'm still kind of processing. 

05:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I agree. I agree, I'm still kind of coming around on it. First off, apologies, my voice is so messed up, but yeah, like I'm still trying to figure out what to think, I think mostly this is like the classic trajectory of George. It makes perfect sense and it's all sharp gambling, twitter's fault, like we bear all responsibility for this, and then these responses just show how much this is our fault. I'd way rather pay for george tracking churn off than I would pay for george's picks himself, but yeah, I don't. I honestly don't know what to think about this. I think people are gonna pay for it for a week or two because it's funny, and then he's gonna post that he has zero subs by week four of the NFL season. 

05:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm in the Feinberg chair so I got to take the, the take up for the bill. You know the George beloved seat here. Listen, I mean George is probably 60?, 60. I don't think he has any employment. 

06:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, I don't think he has any prospects. 

06:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, this seems like the only way for him to maybe put a little income together for himself. It almost feels like if George's mom I don't want to get morbid here If George's mom passes away, how is George going to live? What does he have? I don't know. This seems like maybe he gets the the house as inheritance maybe I mean, or maybe one of the lotto tickets he bought or hits, but I mean maybe he should stop paying a hundred dollars for dinner every day I mean this seems like the only way george is going to be able to uh, to, to keep up with with the joneses here, uh, and maybe cut out a little bit of a life for him. 

06:46
So better late than never. He's kind of a sympathetic figure where it's, I don't know. It seems funny. I agree with you, though. I'd rather pay to see him dunk on Chernoff and track that than actually see his picks. It seems like something that would fizzle out pretty quickly. 

07:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think that's probably what's going to happen, but I I sincerely have like zero problems with george going tout. I I've always been of the opinion that I I'm not like anti-tout. George will tout in the right way you know what I'm saying? 

07:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
he's going to be the most transparent tout ever. 

07:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like, if you're going to buy his picks, you're going to actually know what he released like real lines. He's going to bet the slip for himself, like you know what I'm getting at. 

07:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Okay, I guess, in terms of he will be transparent, I do agree with that, but he also is a known losing better and he knows he's a losing better. 

07:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't know, because he's tracking and he's winning like he won last year on nfl was like I don't know, like 21 game sample or so. I don't even remember what the amount was. I could be mistaken. I don't think he knows he's a losing better. I think he actually believes he's a winning better. 

08:03 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Let's talk how he's going to actually facilitate this, though, because it says, as he pointed, he's going to take payment through Western Union. The last time I used Western Union was when Sportsbook AG sent me a check from Nicaragua 15 years ago or something. I don't know if he's going to actually be able to get this off the ground, so when he appeared on the Elf Spaces spaces, he very clearly had not thought this through. 

08:29 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, other than that he wanted to sell pics, but people were asking him like what plat? When he said western union, I almost fucking I was like drinking a late night coffee. 

08:36
I almost like I I I was dying. But then people started telling him like there's these sites wop and dub club. He doesn't even know what they are, which is really weird, because he claims to watch this show every single week. Something's not adding up here. He promotes this show every week by the way, I don't give him money to do that or anything, but I don't know that he knows that. I don't think he actually knows the price point, because he started by saying like a hundred dollars per week. Then he started saying a hundred dollars per pick. 

09:00
I don't know what's happening here. I do think george is going to make enough money to satisfy him here, because he is like people are going to want to know what like people are. There's going to be collections of guys who put pony up 10 bucks a week or month, whatever, just to see what george is on. He'll make a few thousand dollars. That'll be more than enough and like we're just going to ride off into the sunset. But I I mean the people who are really like. There were some people there that I think were taking him seriously because of, like, some short-term records from last year. Yeah, they're gonna be in for a rude. 

09:36 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This feels like the some type of like in verbatim way of like donating to charity I was about to say the exact same thing. We're going to get into Zilbert here later in the show, but this feels very similar of it's like if everyone pooled together money for a friend that was down on their luck. It was like, yeah, we're going to throw some money in the hat and give it to him. It's like, oh, but we'll buy George's picks for you know, so he can have steak and eggs or whatever this week. 

10:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He might as well have just tweeted like you guys think I'm funny, you've been following me. Like donate to my GoFundMe. 

10:12 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He probably would have had a better chance that way. Actually, I don't know. I mean, it remains to be seen. I think he is popular enough that people are like the community is going to pay for. I'm not, but I'm not subscribing. I'm sorry, george, I'm not subscribing to your package. I don't see the value in it. Um, I I fucking love this tweet by josh. How could someone conceivably think that buying pics from a 50 plus year old guy living in their mom's basement would be a good idea? That is literally the opposite of the american dream. Uh, that was hilarious. Mike vivian said there's no debate. Grp is the king of gambling. Twitter and that's he kind of is, and I think that's why this people will be buy to actively root against George. That's my prediction. You're going to see that on NFL Sundays next year, you're going to see Twitter as a whole buying George's picks just to root against them. 

11:01 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
But that's why it like he doesn't know and this is a George thing George needs like a manager to help him like monetize some of his. Because Feinberg sat in this seat and said like his buddies got in the circuit like Survivor to go against George or that Like he should be reaching out to Benson or somebody to do a little bit kind of something different. 

11:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't think selling picks is the best way to do it different I don't think selling picks is the best way to do it, but I mean it's, it's something for him. Well, I, I you're right like. I think he's very clearly recognized that he is. 

11:31
He's an interesting person yeah he, he drives and he's engaging yes we talk about him every week, like benson cannot like, stop people really. Like george, yeah, like like the, the it's not a shtick, but the shtick you know what I'm getting at it's really important. So he's recognized that now and saying, like I'm getting none of nothing out of this, yeah, and I think for him the easiest path was I'm going to sell picks, but I think there probably would have been certainly alternatives, yeah, where? 

12:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
just have them be like the circa mascot or something have them hire him and have him outside with a sign or something, Like you see at the tax places or something everybody get in here. I feel like that would be a little bit more of a. You know, give him, I don't know somewhere to go, something to do, the selling picks. We'll see though. 

12:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I will say so. That western union, yeah, was hilarious, yeah, but one of my favorite moments that went down on the spaces was, by the way, george. To his credit, he stuck stuck around for an hour answering questions, which I will give him, because lots of scammers, grifters, they go on there, they give their spiel, they duck out when it's good. He answered every question. 

12:44
Okay. But Benson went in and said George, I will buy your package of picks for next year if I could get a commitment that you're going to enter Circa Survivor. George said I can't. I'm not doing Circa Survivor next year, jeff, I'm really sorry. It was way too stressful to for me. To which jeff said too stressful, you got eliminated in week two, he's like I know I can't have that stress again or whatever. It was way too stressful for me. That was a great moment. 

13:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Uh, I'm very interested to see how the grp there better be a better gift for his mom if he's making money off this end of the year I mean he's gonna make like two grand off this. 

13:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't think it's going to be something. Two grand. 

13:28 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He makes two grand. That's two grand more than he was making before this. 

13:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, remember when he lost. What amount did he lose? That he said was like 20% of his net worth, or something yeah At the playing spot limit Omaha. 

13:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I think it was $5,000. Yeah, so that's a significant amount of money, but he was playing really well. 

13:44 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He played like that, in fairness, poker is a game you can play really well and still lose. You can play your best game. Sometimes the cards don't go your way. They don't go your way. Circle back fans. Listen up from your boy, bobby Pizza, right here. 

13:59
If you haven't checked out Underdog just yet, make sure you do so. I checked out underdog just yet. Make sure you do so. I'm a big fan of great products in the space innovative products. They make it as easy to use as possible. You just pick higher or lower on player props. It's that simple. And, of course, if you sign up using code CIRCLES, you can get up to $1,000 in bonus cash plus a free pick. That free pick is for tonight's game Giannis higher than half a point very likely to hit. So hit that link in the description below. Check out Underdog. See why so many people are talking about them in the space. Jared Smith tweeted this week. Not everyone who sells picks is a scammer. Most of them are just average bettors trying to make a modest living by helping below average bettors make smarter decisions. The extremes of both sides get the most attention, but most of reality exists in the middle. Now, this wouldn't be the first time Jared has tweeted like what I would consider to be something fucking stupid. 

15:03
I was not gonna say that I was gonna say controversial, but sure this is not controversial. 

15:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is fucking well you know. 

15:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You know, usually when we do, when we do these types of tweets, I try to get like replies that support both sides. It was really hard to me to find a reply that was like yeah, this is a great point, uh. Jewish mcafree said no, most of them are losing bettors trying to fund their own bets. Ryan kramer said they might not be scammers, but they're grifters. If you want to help people make better decisions, teach the process of making the decision. Don't just sell the outcome of your decision making process. Um, jay ferry said they're just average bettors in charging. The average better is a losing better. They probably shouldn't be making a bunch a month on their dub club or whatever. Uh. So it was pretty much universally against jared's take. 

15:48
I don't know jared well. I think he probably dislikes me by association, which makes a lot of sense. He does shows on uh, bet us uh, during the football season with with fezic and las vegas chris. I have no issues with Las Vegas, chris, we still chat every now and then, but obviously me and Fezzik have kind of had a falling out. But I try not to project that onto other people. Just because they work with them, I do imagine that Jared gets a lot of the Fezzik side of the argument as well, or hears that and that's just an assumption. I got to say this is one of the worst tweets I've ever seen. Like, if we go back to that and I'm just trying to process this over and over I don't even know where to start at picking this apart. There is no middle in sports betting. 

16:33
There is no average. 

16:38 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
There is no like oh yeah, you're 53%, you're better than 50%. There's a 1% and then there's Everybody else. This is like trying to Compare it to like oh, the guy who makes your sandwich at Pop Belly. 

16:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's better than most of the other we keep him on. 

16:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
We pay him a decent wage. That's not sports Betting at all. It's like he's applying some Natural life Methodology to sports Betting, which makes zero sense. 

17:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
First of all, it's way too generous to pick sellers. It's like all these guys are just out to try to help others. 

17:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Just trying to earn a dollar, that's just not the reality of the situation. 

17:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
One weird thing about Jared Smith is, I swear, in his last 20 tweets he's completely heel-turned and has been chirping touts like every single tweet. 

17:25 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
So I'm not sure what happened. 

17:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He knew this was coming and he had to try to get it in. But yeah, this just feels like a person who thinks like you always have to be in the middle of an argument and like both sides are dumb. You know how people like make fun of like the brainless, like centrist, like this is kind of what he is. He's like oh, like people complain about touts, people like touts. I'm just going to be in between and sound smart, but he actually just sounded incredibly dumb. The average better, obviously, is a losing better. That also just using the word average there, makes the tweet so much worse, like if you at least left it ambiguous to being like okay, they're, they're good, betters then maybe. But the only way this makes sense is if you're a tout and you're cutting someone's edge from negative 30 to negative 5. That's the hypothesis of the tweet, which obviously makes no sense. 

18:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, I mean, think about it from the perspective of a pick buyer. Right, Most pick buyers are paying for the assumption that they're buying something that has like a real edge. They're not paying to like slightly improve at betting slightly, lose less. 

18:30
Yeah, you're like right pick buyers are going in with the expectation that they're buying something that is going to win. So when you look at it from that perspective, it's not like I'm gonna buy this guy's picks because you know what, maybe after after losing for 50, I might be slightly better than I was on my own. Like no one's doing it, oh. 

18:46 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
GRP. Thank you. I lost 20 dimes last year, but only 17 this year thanks to your picks. Oh, my goodness, what a season. 

18:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Right. And then, like the assumption that the pick sellers are just quote unquote average bet and that the pick sellers are just quote unquote average bet. And again the usage of average bettors right. Like an average bettor is a losing bettor, so like a losing bettor trying to help another losing bettor make smarter, like it just doesn't. It doesn't add up. So I don't really know what the pretense was for this. And on the side of the like, the extremes of both sides get the most attention. Sports betting there are like we live in a world of extremes. 

19:25 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's only it's only street, like there is not really a middle ground. 

19:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
With sports betting it's like you win or you lose and it's like you're one of those two buckets. And if you're a pick seller and you lose, I'm sorry. Like there's not a middle ground there. 

19:38 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
There's not a middle ground in that and it it also kind of gives so much credit to the pick sellers. Make a modest living by helping Like pick sellers care about helping. 

19:47 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Like going to work and, like you know, like pounding the pavement, working on the neighborhood. Like just trying to make the community better, like there's a guy you just like drive in the car and put a few plays in a dub club. And like oh like what an effort today he really cares about the community. 

20:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I definitely think, especially with like the new wave of pick sellers, the dub club, wop stuff, I. I just think like people have now realized like when I was growing up, my dad was like you got to go to college, you got to go to school, you got to earn like a. And now it's just like. 

20:20
I don't want to say it's like a get rich quick scheme, but there are a lot of young people exactly what it is, yeah this is an industry where I can make a lot of money right by putting in minimal effort and all I really got to do is market myself. And maybe jared would be speaking to like the older generation of touts and I don't. I still don't agree with his comments regardless, but I'm sure that there are some guys who've been around the block for a long time who maybe do take it more seriously, but I just I can't really get around on anything here. 

20:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He's clearly never been in an elf spaces, because literally every night there is a pick seller who is a scammer and all they talk about is how much money they make and how incredible they are the idea that most of them are trying to make a modest living. I've never heard a tout like yeah, you know, I'm just trying to help people out and make a little bit of money. 

21:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
To put it into perspective, man of the library is now like a good guy on the space. 

21:18 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
That's how bad the people are. 

21:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
People view him as the voice of reason, a guy who's been grifting forever. 

21:25 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Stalking Benson outside of the Latinos. He's the one who's like ah, you know what he's not so bad? 

21:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I do remember he didn't kill Jeff, he didn't kill him. 

21:33 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He didn't. He didn't assault him. 

21:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, apparently he was unleashing all of his minions on Circa His words, not mine. It looks to me like Circa's still standing and they're in business. It didn't look like they got put out of business. But yeah, I don't know. I've again hashtag circle back. We react to it, but there's not much more to talk about there. If you are enjoying this show, smash that like button down below. Make sure you're subbed here on Circles Off for circles off for more comment commentary. More content coming in the future, if you want to leave your commentary. Of course we do take comments down below. We do react to those every single week as well. Right angle sports entered into a partnership with bet online. For those who don't know about right angle sports, I mean you haven't watched this show before because kirk likes to bring them up in conversation every single week in some capacity I was just talking about a hypothetical sports betting group last week. 

22:22
That's true, you didn't name them by name, but Right Angle Sports has been in the business for a long time selling a pick service. One of the biggest criticisms of that service has been people can't get the lines. They move too quickly, amongst other criticisms, I will say but they tweeted we're excited to announce a partnership with BetOnline for our March college basketball release shows. Betonline will hold the line for at least 30 seconds and allow $500 max bets, no rebets, and this was met with a lot of criticism. So we look at the commentary. Lots of people Positive. Eb said what a massive tell. Lol, chris Flup. No lie. A sportsbook wants our action so bad they're letting all our subs get it. If this isn't a massive tell as to if you've lost your edge or not, I don't know what is. Simple Prince said bet online sitting with open arms. These bets got to be abysmal. This was the biggest reaction. 

23:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But these tweets are really funny to me because like, yeah, maybe it's a tell, maybe it's not a tell, who knows? But like, do you know it's a way bigger tell the fact that over the last a thousand college basketball bets. They're down like 15 units like you can go on their site, type in raspix and click on college basketball. That's what that online is allowing. That to me is a bigger. Tell that over and a thousand pick sample they're negative, right? 

23:46 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
uh, mr peanut butter said don't think the bet online partnership with rass actually says much about their edge. If they're able to hold one percent or three percent, it's pretty immaterial for a huge sports book. I'd be more concerned about their lack of winning, actually. And then dave mason, who went into the twitter spaces to talk about this uh, he also tweeted if we didn't respect them, we would offer full limits on this promo. Listen to the l spaces for the way we see it, instead of the 500 limit. So I will say I think rass has gotten to a point as a brand where sharps used to go to bat for them. Yeah, a lot of like. Even two years ago, sharps would be like you know what. I don't really agree with the pick selling, but like rass has been the gold standard. People would have said that, yeah, I probably would have said yeah, I agree. 

24:30 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Right, I agree. 

24:31 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I would have said that for a long time I think it's gotten to the point now where they've they've alienated those people yeah, through the social interactions, absolutely, where you don't have those people going to bat anymore and it doesn't matter what they do. Now it's just viewed in a negative light. Regard To me, this is a complete non-story. 

24:50 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's what I was going to say. What is the goal here for them to do this? It doesn't seem like it's building back any reputation, any really good faith with people in the industry. 

25:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I guess I don't know what the point of this was from their perspective so I don't know either I haven't had any conversations with ed or I know some people who work at rass. I haven't had these conversations privately, but I think, plain and simple, one of the biggest criticisms that they're getting is like well, nobody gets these lines. You're releasing these plays and maybe, like the first 5% get it and nobody else does. They're taking worse plays. 

25:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's not going to change in terms of the service You're not going to have. Like Dave, all season be like, hold on. No, no, understood. 

25:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But I think they're trying to do something to combat that perception and, honestly, like I don't see the issue altogether Like if you want to say that they've lost the red. Like I don't see the issue altogether Like if you want to say that they've lost the red. Like you said, kirk, I think you're better off looking at the sample size of picks than some promo. I haven't mentioned this in a long time but for those who don't know, I've consulted for sports folks in the offshore space Drink. Okay, so let's say you're going to're gonna offer 500 bet to anyone who wants to take a 500 bet. Let's even assume that dave mason and the traders there think that rass is winning and they're gonna. They let's say, have a five percent ev. Five percent ev on 525 bucks. So basically, for every single bet that they take, that's 500 bucks. They expect to lose 25 over time. They don't give a shit about that because you know what. 

26:24
They're paying 300 ahead to get people in the door with other services. Do you know how much it costs to reactivate, like a lapsed player, someone who's played at bet online before and they've left and they're gone? It's a huge cost. So to me, this is just a very simple sportsbook promo that says, yeah, let's take the bets even if we lose. I mean, it's better than spending whatever they're spending to to acquire and reacquire players. And on the rest side, it's like I actually saw this. I'm like before I even looked at the at the responses, I'm like, yeah, this makes like a ton of sense, but I just think the brand is so diminished at this point there's just nothing they can do that's going to satisfy the people of gambling. 

27:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Twitter the only you. You have to go on a prolonged stretch of actually winning. That's really that's really that's not. That's not going to be the games or any of this stuff that's going to change anything. It's. 

27:16 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's going to be documented winning over a larger 100 and not go two weeks winning and then send everyone text messages and tweets about how you're on a 12 and 2 run and then lose all that back in the next two weeks like actually win yeah and that'll solve your problem. 

27:30 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
100 has to be results based. 

27:32
At this point I gotta say one of the biggest you know, and we'll end on this in one second for the for the rast discussion. But I feel like that rast right angle sports discord was popping for a long time and when those guys when abnormally distributed and that he's like group I'll call him cronies. I don't mean it disrespect, but like when that group of cronies got booted from that discord, it felt like that was like like an atomic bomb being dropped. At that point those guys have had it out for RAS ever since, and then I'm not saying that RAS isn't doing anything to perpetuate this, but it's like every single time they tweet it's like a little more gasoline on the fire, a little more, a little more, and now it's to the point where I think it's just completely beyond repair. Unless they literally have not even like one season of winning, it's going to be like multiple seasons of getting the results back on track and unless that happens, unfortunately, like every single thing they do is going to be met with the same response. 

28:31 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I think the discord went in. Uh, they had it really. They had it captured for a minute where it felt like it was kind of like the go-to product in terms of, uh, of like a channel that people would communicate in in gambling Twitter, and they really screwed it up, like it really went off the reservation there to where now? I mean it's like a paid membership now or something to even be in it. 

28:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't even know the specifics. I think you're right. 

28:59 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I think it is be in it. Yeah, I don't even know. I think you're right, I think. But yeah, yeah, I, it was a uh. I think it was a poor decision in retrospect uh, of how they handled that well, if this is your first time seeing uncle k joey knish then you're not watching the best show on the network, tell me about it. 

29:15
Hey, baby, hit the books. College football season. Don't, don't wait until the fall, don't wait until the market's all set. We'll get you early this spring, me and the legend himself, brad powers. Baby, hit the books. The best college football show in the country, in the nation in north america, in the fir, in the 51st state even people are watching this show college football. I'm walking through the streets of Toronto. People are asking me about you know Coastal Carolina College football hit the books. Be there with us all season. 

29:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I swear you. I mean, you're a shorter guy. You're much shorter than me and Kirk I wouldn't say much shorter. 

29:59 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to dox you. 

30:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I mean, you know when are we going with this. 

30:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If he was bigger and born like 15 years earlier. This guy was cut out to cut wrestling promos Like he would have been an insane promo cutter in the 90s WWF, wwe, like that was your calling in life. 

30:16 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I missed it. I really missed it. I should have you know. I should have hit on the trend early on and joined in to the early WCW phase. 

30:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Now I'm sitting here with you mugs doing a gossip show, not the life you want to be living Doing a gossip show Could be doing Madison Square Garden, flexing my months. 

30:36 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
We're sitting here talking about the biggest scum on earth. 

30:41 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Last week some great comments. Again. We encourage comments as much as possible. It helps our show grow. So if there's something that you want to hit on from this show today, drop it down in the comments section below. We do read and react to them every single week. Sconescone said Jeff looked like a sad turtle when you gave him the banana and marinara. Now me and kanish did that on a separate circles off episode. So we've all tried that. At this point you guys oddly had weird reactions of like you kind of didn't mind it. I mean I didn't love it. 

31:11 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I wouldn't eat it again, but I wasn't in, you know feinberg, mode of like uh, convulsing and then throwing it up immediately now that you've actually seen the studio. 

31:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He just walked right to that little garbage can in the corner and he was just hurling. 

31:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
It was really uncomfortable to watch. 

31:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He saw the banana and marinara and was immediately devastated. But it's not bad. Especially it wasn't a very ripe banana, so it wasn't that sweet, and then the marinara was salty. It was pretty good. 

31:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, and that's not my experience. It wasn't good. Yeah, and that's not my experience. 

31:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It wasn't good. Yeah, pretty intolerable. I wouldn't eat it again, but it's just not bad, it's fine. 

31:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right. It's in that middle ground that Jared Smith was talking about Exactly. It was in that middle ground A step in the right direction for the show this week. It's unfathomable to me that people as smart in the community as this staff has sunk so much time into the twitter tout slash spaces drivel when there's so much in the sports gambling landscape to discuss. 

32:11
This is the least I've skipped the show in a month, so nice work that was nice backhanded compliments you know, these ones are tough in coming up with, like the content for the show, because this is a show about gambling Twitter, and to ignore the fact that like these spaces, which are a function of gambling Twitter, happening, you can't do it. And I just came back from a bettors meetup in Boston over the weekend. People weren't coming up to me and talking about like real sports betting. Yeah, they were coming up to me and they were talking about what's going on in the spaces. Yeah, these are people I've never met before in my life. First interactions. It's not like what do you do, what do you bet on this? And that it's like, oh, I saw you in that spaces when you were, you know, going after this guy and whatever. It's like a real thing right now. 

33:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And you know why I love this show even when I'm not on it. Because I don't got to sit through six hours of fucking spaces every night to know what happened. I can come on here and get the big recap. So that's a loathsome let it. I mean, yeah, you know what would be a bigger time suck Is if you were in there six hours every night to get the highlights. Instead, we give them to you right here in a nice little, uh, conceptual format there we go absolutely yeah. 

33:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like I get it in terms of like I haven't been in the space in weeks, I can see how people are, like how people don't like it but like who cares if we talk about it on the show. It's what this is. That's what the show is, yeah I. 

33:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, it's tough. You're never gonna please. I used to get this on circles off all the time. Why did you book that guy as a guest? Why did you do it? Why didn't you talk more about this? You can't appease everyone. I think that one of the challenges with the circles off brand is that we actually now do appeal to every style of better, like sharp betters. Watch us, pure squares, watch us. It's really hard to produce content that is for everyone, but we do time stamp it. Every single week. Jacob spends the time to time stamp this show. If there's a topic you don't like, just skip ahead to the next topic. It's that simple. Um, a big pro of this episode is jason is an honor. Huge con. Jeff is getting worse by the episode saying sports betting is the next. Fentanyl is hot take garbage and actually indefensible. Um k issue. You like to offer me your feedback on the characters on this show over time? 

34:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
you have personally beefed with jason before yeah, dxp, I would tell you, if you don't like jason on the show, try and have jason produce an episode of something you actually do because if you think he's bad on here, put him in, uh, the giant seat over there and then try and have him do anything production-wise for you. 

34:43
So yeah, you only get the other half of Jason, who I don't actually mind in front of camera. If he's producing something I'm on, I want to bash my head into a wall, but on scene. Listen, I'm never going to get the Feinberg beef that some people have. I do not understand it is not. 

35:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I do understand it. Part of it is that he will interact outside of the show with the sharp personalities as well. He'll give it back, which is pretty unusual, I think in the space nowadays Most guys just get blocked or muted or whatever. But I don't get it either. I'm obviously biased. I've known jeff for a long time but, like the, in thinking about this show and building it, it was never. Jeff was never not going to be a part of the show. Um, and, by the way, I wouldn't like sports betting. Is the next fentanyl? 

35:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
probably definitely like an extreme take but I think, I think all at the point he said. He said I was being hyperbolic like five minutes later on the show, like I don't, I don't know I will see jason, he has no chance to defend himself well I will say this about jason. 

35:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I actually agree. I mean, we don't have him on every single show, but there's topics where he's really well suited to talk about. He's very passionate about them. 

35:56 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He loves the spaces he, yeah, he's a space, a spaces. If I wanted somebody to give me the recap of the spaces, he's my go-to. 

36:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He was my producer for the five-hour Super Bowl props extravaganza. It went off without a hitch. That was tough to do. He was in the producer chair for this show once when Jacob was hosting when I was away for vacation. To my recollection there were zero fuck-ups, so his hit rate is going a little bit high. You got him in his early stages of production. 

36:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This might come off as a backhanded compliment, but I would say Jason's biggest pro when he's on camera is that you can shit on him as much as you want, chirp him about anything, and it's like water it just comes off. And having someone like that on the show is great. 

36:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Finally, captain Jack Andrews said guys, either lay off the red bull or raise the cameras. Robin kirk's non-stop shaking legs is so distracting it's like hanging out in a methadone clinic. Um, I do, and I've done this for 20 plus years. Um, it's like a tick for me, but I I constantly am tapping. I actually think when I started playing in a band, I used to keep time with the band as well and uh, I can't stop. And I see Kirk's leg shaking nonstop as well. What's the cameras like this week? Uh, jacob, are we getting our our legs in the shot? Oh, yeah, your, your knees, like yeah, I actually think. 

37:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I haven'm really bad at. I'm very like people comment that I'm so short which I'm not short. 

37:25 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He's not short. 

37:26 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's common. 

37:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
in your short I sit so low in the chair I'm always repositioning. I'm just very ADHD. 

37:34 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Can you confirm your feet hit the floor from the chair? 

37:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Sorry, can you? 

37:37 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
confirm that your feet can hit the floor. His feet do hit the floor. 

37:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I can confirm Regards from Canada here. Cap, this is for you, baby, I love you, but I would need about 12 of those Red Bulls behind me to watch any of the content on Unabated Sports and stay awake. 

37:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Man, this is your one show. 

38:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm sorry, I'm only here for one week and I'm not going to let that softball fly by. So there may be a little leg shaking here. 

38:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But at least people stay awake when they're watching. Yep, I like that a lot. I don't know how to react to that. 

38:20 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Jack is a friend, but yeah, I tried to get us off screen. Yeah, it was tough. 

38:25 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, you don't know. That's part of the reason we had him in studio here for those of his very refreshing takes. Okay, zilbert Cash is in. Talked a little about Zilbert last week on the show. Certainly an interesting personality. 

38:42
He's been giving out picks on Deadspin and he was in a Twitter spaces where he was challenged to post a bet slip of his picks from that day, which was a parlay on two NBA alternate spreads. He took like one team plus 28 and a half. He was challenged to do this and people just started coming in saying if you do it, I'll give you 100 bucks. You do it, I'll give you 100. Uh, jack mack from barstool came in. He said I'll give you 250. Book it. Trent was like I'll give you 500 if you can show that with the odds and it got up to I. The tweet we have here is 3.3k. I think it got got up to 3.8. I could be mistaken there as well, but Elf was collecting dollars as an escrow. He collected about a couple thousand of them and ultimately Zilbo posted the slip Two picks, parlay minus 152. At DraftKings it turned out to be a $45.60 wage, paid 75.60, so 45.60 to win 30. 

39:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He had to have emptied the account on that one. 

39:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He did say before the unit shamers come out. This is my distant fourth sport. Obviously not going to bet nearly the same as baseball and football. 

40:01 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Obviously not betting those high three figs. 

40:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's not betting the high three figs. I do believe that was part of the reason it might have taken him so long to show the bet slip, which is like do I want to show this $30 slip? Yeah, but it was to win 2K. Some people did not contribute yet, which, by the way, that's a real yeah, I know where you're going. 

40:23 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's a real shitty move. 

40:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I got to say so. Trent ended up paying Matt, but they went back and forth on Twitter for a long time where Matt was like you know, pay up. He's like I ain't paying you shit, bro, I'll donate it to charity instead. 

40:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I thought this was a very bad look. Can't do that. 

40:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Cannot do that. I'm glad he ended up paying it out, but in the sports betting space your reputation matters so much so he did pay him for it. It's $250. That brought Zilbert to a total of $2,650 on the elf spaces, Rob you have materially changed Matt Zilbert's life. 

41:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Zalbert, I don't know. Having him on the prop show, having him on the prop show and getting him on camera has reinvigorated the Zilbo, even people's interest in him, people's like they've changed my viewpoint. He's now almost a sympathetic character. 

41:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I find him to be. He's getting a bit of the George love yeah yeah, where the George love where. 

41:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
if this would have happened any time before that I would have been like I don't want this fucking guy getting three-thousand. You know like I wouldn't have thrown up, but now it's like this is almost a feel-good story. Yes, that you. I mean this is like you're like. It was like a make a wish thing here. You got him on the stream. People actually didn't mind it. It feels like he also went back to Deadspin. He did more videos after that. It kind of like got him some confidence to do video after that. I don't know, I kind of I don't mind. 

41:55 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Zilbo as much. Why is he sympathetic? He's just attacking people on Twitter, but he's a slad sack. 

42:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But I think if you take a step back. So my first I fucking hated Matt Zilbert for a long period of time Because what he's doing to Trent, lauren Cowling, the Book it crew now and some other people, that's what he used to do to me back in the day. I'd post a play. I'm literally like I'm not going to give away the amounts I was betting at the time, but I'm betting a lot on these games and doing well, and he's treating me like I'm like this recreational better of like you're a phony where your documented records. And I'm trying to explain to the guy like I'm not I'm not going to post my hockey pics to twitter and like I know sounds really dumb that I'm going to say this, cause I roasted Warren sharp for this before. 

42:43
I don't want people to like, in a sense, reverse engineer, not that they're going to come up with my model, but it's like, okay, now they see these plays are going through a certain account that they have and now they can tie it to being me and they can go and bed it elsewhere and whatever. But then after a while I just basically got oh, I'm like, I'm like I watched this happen for like three years. I watched my buddy, clive Bixby, like he he's just, like he cannot handle this and I'm like why are we getting upset about? 

43:12
this and then, as I heard him start to talk on these spaces, I've now realized he legitimately, legitimately cares about the industry. Okay, he might not be right for the industry, okay, but I truly believe that he goes after people that he thinks are like misleading the public, convincing people that they're winners when they're not. Now, whether he should be able to do that is a different conversation. Right like he's, you know these alt spreads and the buying of points or whatever, but that's to me it was spurs plus 28 and a half. 

43:49
Yeah, yeah, I mean what you didn't see there. There's an actual video, by the way, and we just got. 

43:53 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
We just got the no, we skipped the video that there was nine dollars and nine cents in his balance with like 70 d. 

44:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He's using, like the DK, crowns to make bets too. You know what I'm saying. 

44:05 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He's saying here not nearly the same bet size as baseball and football. I would wager the 45,. 60 is an account emptier, so I don't think he's got the pay roll to bet more. 

44:17 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
There's only $9.09 left, Jacob. 

44:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So we can definitely unit shame here because of the way that he's talked Of course we can unit. 

44:28 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
shame the guy acts like he's the best bettor in the world. 

44:31 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But my point and again I'm a Zilbo stan at this point but my point is that how many people could you ask to produce a bet slip that can't produce a bet slip, Like they literally don't bet their picks? Yeah, he does for and that, like how many people post, lore is so low for the credit. 

44:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
People post well though I did not think it was going to be produced dude, this guy's playing chess man. 

44:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He was getting that pot up and up and up and up. 

44:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I was actually gonna ask do you think he did that on purpose? 

44:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
no, so I think, I think that I think he gave the slip to elf very quickly, but they wanted to announce it on the show, like post it on the show and make it be a big thing instead of so I do think that he produced it fairly quickly. Um, I asked him via dms I'm like dude, if you don't have this slip, like our relationship is done. And he's like no, he's like I, I bet everything I played, but but this one is a smaller bet and I'm I'm like people might make fun of me for the size of the bet. 

45:28
I said you know what? Do it, man. You're gonna make 2500 off of this. 

45:32 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You're the one laughing right at the end of the day you know, oh, he won this, yeah, easy easy win. 

45:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
He probably didn't want to show, but it just got to a point where, like he had to take that much money. 

45:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Think about how much he can have in his DK now. 

45:45 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Okay, now he can actually do three figs, if you didn't know like how much did you just? 

45:49 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
would you have casually thought he bet on that wager to begin with? 

45:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
45 makes a lot of sense to me. 

45:56 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
On the high end, I would have said like 100. Well, high end, I would have said like a hundred. So that. 

46:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, that's what I was, because he he was kind of saying like 100 was kind of the number that he bounced around as like his unit size generally. So I was thinking it was going to be a hundred dollar wager. Some people were trying to back out of this wager, saying he has to produce a hundred dollar bet slip, which was not the terms at the beginning it was just that he had to produce the bet slip and people were trying to get out of it. 

46:18
But I don't know like he. He recommends picks. He's betting the picks. He generally, I think, cares about people misleading other people. He certainly is annoying, don't get me wrong like imagine waking up to a dm from him like a message. Reply to him every day. That's like where's your documented record. 

46:39
And Like when he asked Eric Eager who had moved to the Carolina Panthers to produce a documented record. I mean Trav. He says I need the psychiatric diagnosis for someone who places $20 and $30 wagers but can't bring himself to acknowledge that a person who bet enough to buy an NBA team is a better gambler than him. He's referring to Haralabal as well. It's like eager. It's like the Panthers are one in four. 

47:05 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's a documented record the team he works for on the field. 

47:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Truly incredible moment, but I'm glad he got paid and anyone who hasn't paid him yet if you haven't, I will find out who you are and shame you. 

47:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, totally Pay him the money. If you agree to pay him the money, I also need the site, the psychiatric diagnosis of the people who care enough to actually give zilbert money to produce a bet slip. Like I know, we're doing a show right now talking about gambling twitter beef, but like you're in too deep if you're offering them 250 bucks, 500 bucks to show a bet. Slip like how can you care that much. 

47:42 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We're recording this on Monday. Episode comes out Tuesday, but I was in the Sunday night spaces and I've agreed to do a collab with Zilbo as well. Oh, you're in too deep a spot he hates the collabs. He came in talking about hating collabs and I told him that I would do a hockey collab with him. 

47:57 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I kind of agree that take is anti-collab. 

47:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I hate collabs that video he did for Deadspin where he ripped the dart like mid video and is one of the funniest. I didn't see it. I also have him muted. Yeah, you're not a Zilbo fan. Maybe I've gone too far to the other extreme. Now I gotta find the same joke, the Jared Smith middle ground. 

48:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm gonna find that with Zilbo, he just responds to every one of my tweets with utter nonsense. He's just so annoying. 

48:31 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Rob, one day you're going to wake up feeling like Oppenheimer You've created this atomic bomb. One day, you're going to regret it Exactly. 

48:38 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Because he had almost faded into obscurity before you resurrected the zilbo. And now, uh, now he's back he's on the exact george path. 

48:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, in a year he's gonna sell picks and we're gonna be like obviously that happened if he sell. 

48:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
If he does, I will. I will lose a lot of respect for like. I will go back to hating him again, not because he's selling picks, but because of like what he claims to stand for in the industry, like the the whole. You know he's beefing with book, get personalities all the time and I'm just kind of there for like as the observer. 

49:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm like wow, this is, like you know, the classic popcorn mean you Take Zilbert to not sell picks in the next year at plus 100? 

49:21 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yes, yeah, me too. 

49:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
In the next year. 

49:23 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
yes, that's a horrible price. Yeah, I'd max bet that oh yeah To not. 

49:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
To not. 

49:32 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, we'll talk off camera, Because everything he said he's held true. Everything's been true along the way. 

49:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, but no one paid attention to him. It's like George as well talked about documented records and blah, blah, blah and like yeah, fine, he'll keep a documented record. But I think George made it pretty clear that, like, selling picks was bad and being a losing better. I guess you guys say he's a winning better, but like I think Sorry, come on, you guys said that George thinks he's a winning bet. 

50:01
He does, he does yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry you guys said that George thinks he's a winning bet, so maybe he's not being actively dishonest. But I think really, at the end of the day their motivations are kind of the same and they want to make money. 

50:17 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't know that I agree, but you know we'll talk off air. 

50:20 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
We'll talk off air. We'll have a little side bet. 

50:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We won't release the details publicly because we don't want to influence what happens, but we can come up with something. We'll come up with something. John Hyslop at Slop Rules. You know I should really do more research before these shows, but I don't know the origin of John Hyslop. I thought he was part of like the Odds Jam community with Alex. 

50:41 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Monahan, I looked for one of his shows and now does he have like a new Odds product? I think so. 

50:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, that OS and the thing. 

50:48 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, yeah, it's like Odds. 

50:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Shopper or something like that, right? Anyways, I don't know the. I've really never interacted with him until about three months ago when, oddly, he sent me a dm that said like really like, circle back, uh, we'll see if so. He tweeted you don't have a gambling problem, you have a losing problem. Just start winning and your problem is solved. Kirk evans responded this is like your highest engaging tweet ever, ever. Impossible to overstate how much this guy fucking sucks. That's a good tweet. So this, this tweet triggered you in some capacity, like I wouldn't say it necessarily triggered me. 

51:29 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's just like this is this guy's entire bit. Yeah, he's like if he was completely removed from like the gambling, like he obviously gets paid to promote gambling. If he wasn't that and he just made these jokes and he was like a gambling personality yeah okay, that's kind of one thing, but like this is his entire bit is joking about how gambling problems don't matter and just win. And just gross to me and also not funny at all okay. 

51:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So so for you, is it like um, is it that you don't like the? What bothers you more? That you don't like the bit? What bothers you more? That you don't like the bit? Like you think it's lame, or the responsible gaming element? I would say it's a mix of. 

52:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't think he's funny. It's his literal only joke, like he tweets this maybe once a day Some derivative of this joke. 

52:20 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This is like the bows of, uh, like, like his, his I'm with. I'm not gonna pretend you're talking about bows b o z explanation point yeah, yeah, so that that's his version of this, where, like it's just constant, I hate the bit it's. I'm not even gonna pretend like I care about the responsible gaming aspect that much I hate the bit. It's not funny. 

52:44 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's not To have a bit that's so not funny and also just about how gambling problems aren't real. It's such a weird mix of not funny and shitty. He's just really annoying. And he gets paid in the gambling space and he obviously does this to drive engagement and he's just so annoying. 

53:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Okay, so I'm gonna push back on both of you here for one second, for a couple reasons. One, kirk evans posted this response. The amount of vitriol that kirk got after this from like people who really like john hyslop was a lot I don't know how many of those you mentions you read. 

53:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I know I I read them all, but also it was my most liked tweet ever. So I think, yeah, a lot of people like it on both sides a lot of people agree. 

53:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
A lot of people disagree. The second reason I have to push back is because this is like kind of the same bit that I do but in a different way. Like this, this stupid, like life of a capper shit I'm doing now with the videos and it's not the exact same thing like a obvious parrot. 

53:46 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's kind of like making so but you're making fun of of cappers. He is just. Yeah, there's a variety there this is like verbatim the same thing. 

53:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Kirk knows it's an obvious parody because he knows me okay. So people who people will literally watch my videos and some people think it's real. It's sad because it's very clearly a bit and it's a parody and it's meant to be that. But there are people who think that they are like real things. They dm me on the side. They ask me quite like I. I did one this week where I'm like we went two and one on free plays, five and two for the subs or something like that, and people were met like I got so many messages about what subs, where can I get the picks? People think that that's a real thing. For this one, John Hyslop maybe just because I followed him for a long time and I've seen these tweets it's very obviously a bit as well. 

54:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I agree it's obviously a bit, but it's a bit of a different thing. What you're joking about is like how dumb the Twitter cappers are. His joke is about like even though he is joking, the joke is the premise of it is that, like gambling problems aren't real. It's not like like, it's just a bit of a different thing. Yours is more of a parody, his is more of a not funny joke. 

55:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Humor has its place, in a sense making fun of it. 

55:08 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But if it was? 

55:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
funny. 

55:09 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I probably wouldn't, care. Yeah, if it was a good bit, then I'd be okay with it. Or if it wasn't the most dated bit that's ever been, yeah, so it's just been run into the ground over and over and over again. 

55:21 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, so, like John Hyslop, he's sharp, like he very clearly knows how to win, like I'm not saying he's a winning better, let's just put it that way Like I've seen him talk the principles that he uses a lot of top-down stuff but he wins right, but he's not really. Like there's not a lot of overlap, I think, in our gambling Twitter sphere, and like what John's doing, I want to say, maybe half a year ago to a year ago, there was tabitha bradley. Uh, she works for stacks. She tweeted something really similar to this yeah, and actually here it is right now. When I said this, it didn't age well, um, she got roasted, she did. 

56:01 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, she got crushed by, like the sharp side of gammon twitter, but that's exactly she doesn't have this legion of odds jammer, odds shopper that top-down like young crackhead To then go back at it. It's like when Kirk tweets it, then he's got you know a hundred odds shop like subs that are trying to work their pyramid scheme and it's like, no, this changed my life. I made you know $3.27 from Arving and something like this changed my life. I made you know three dollars 27 cents from arving and something, whereas tabitha had no one in the corner, uh, and just just took it really on the on the chin she also. 

56:38 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
She represents a sports book. Yeah, that's actually working for a sports book made it rougher. 

56:43 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, no, that's good. It's not apples to apples. 

56:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, yes, but uh, I, when I did see that tweet and I did see your response, and then I saw people coming after you being like, oh, don't take yourself too seriously, and this and that it's, you know, sarcastic and whatever, I did think to myself. We saw this play out like six months ago and it didn't go over all that well for Tabitha, so that's, anyways, just food for thought. I like Jon Huxlott personally the bit I don't know. 

57:11 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
You do that about everyone who we talk about. Oh, I like them personally, I think, I think, I think the bit's funny. 

57:16 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I follow him. I see it like once every few weeks. It gives me like a bit of a chuckle or something, but I don't know. I it's very clearly a bit. 

57:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
So, yeah, I don't want to see on my timeline, right? 

57:37 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
so like I'm still seeing his tweets, I'm a rage twitter scroller like I want to see things that enrage me and then I can respond okay. 

57:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Okay, that really says a lot about you yeah, no, I'll give you a little peek behind the curtain. I tweeted that as I was leaving for like taking off on a plane, because I knew that it would get a lot of engagement and it would entertain me throughout the flight. 

57:56 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, you fucking did it. 

57:57 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I swear to God, I do that all the time. 

57:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You're an engagement baiter man. 

58:01 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Obviously, we're sitting next to the new elf here, grp wins over here on my left. 

58:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
If I'm at my desk and I'm tired and I know I need like a little bit of an energy boost, I'll send a shit tweet so people get mad at me and then fires me up and I can keep working. 

58:15 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You have developed a lot of enemies in the space. Oh, absolutely, joey Toons once said he wanted to punch your head right off your body. 

58:24 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No. 

58:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I think he said he wanted to slam through a table. 

58:27 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Why am I thinking? I don't know who else had said punch head off your body. 

58:30 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I feel like you, let him a little too off the hook on that episode. Yeah, I remember talking to Rob about that. 

58:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm genuinely afraid of things. 

58:36 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
But when are you going to? That's like oh, I'm genuinely afraid of, like you know, some UFC fighter that I'm never going to see in life. 

58:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think it's more likely that he's not that. 

58:47 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, exactly, he might see tunes in life he's not gonna throw you a bunch power, bomb you through a table though no, I agree, I doubt it, like just doesn't exactly. 

58:56 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I mean, it'd be great for the show if he did you were trying. 

58:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We're talking about engagement, but I mean, if he did, I think it'd be if I knew that he was meeting tunes, yeah, I would feed tunes some information and then make sure we have, like you know, jacob, or something you a smartphone, yeah, but I also feel like people don't recognize how much Toons fucking hates me, like before that all happened. 

59:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I already knew he fucking hated me, yeah. 

59:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
In my early 20s when I was working as a radio producer in this building Hardcore Sports Radio we used to have UFC fighters in all the time and my host, gabe, would always tell the fighter we had in studio that I bet against him in the last fight and the reactions were so different, like one time we had Heath Herring. He was a heavyweight and he fought Brock Lesnar and he got. He got destroyed in that Brock killed him and Gabe told me he's like uh, rob, bet on Brock in the last fight against you. He's like great bet. He's like if I could have bet, I would have bet on Brock in the last fight against you. He's like great bet. He's like if I could have bet, I would have bet on Brock too. But then there was another guy like Josh Koscheck I'll never forget. This guy wanted to fight me. 

01:00:02 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm like. No, I don't like, I don't know he's just making it up. 

01:00:04 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He was seeing red. 

01:00:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That's what Toons is going to. 

01:00:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
When Toons sees you, he's going to be seeing red Boom. 

01:00:10 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think his traders actually dislike you more than he does, though they they like it escalated from like the smallest tweet, Like I've been so much more aggressive to other people on Twitter, but yeah, no Toons fucking hate you and his traders high level hatred. 

01:00:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Thank you for the reminder, jacob. I was going to get here as well. So a couple weeks ago we were doing a giveaway for some merch. We're going to be sending out a swag bag with some Hammer-related merch. I think we're going to put a Hit the Book shirt in there in honor of you. We got BetStamp, who's one of our partners here as well. That's given us some sweaters, some nice golf shirts, stuff like that. So we're sending out swag bags, jacob's, showcasing all of the the stuff there like uh, I mean, we could probably hire a hot girl to do this instead of jacob. 

01:00:55 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Uh, beyond screen yeah, but anyways, the swag is it feels like a miss. That nothing wrong jacob does. Looking slim, though, but looking good yeah, some good stuff. 

01:01:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Uh, the winner of the swag at matt ziegler 1163. 

01:01:10 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It was a little too close for comfort. I thought Matt Ziegler was just trying to think about that. I didn't even dawn on you. 

01:01:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Matt Ziegler 1163 on YouTube. Here's what you got to do. Reach out to us. On Twitter. You can DM the Circles Off account or you can email us circlesoffatthehammerbet. We'll get your sizing. We'll get you your swag With proof that you own that account. 

01:01:33
Yeah, yeah, you're right, we need, of course. Of course, we will run that, run that back. We're gonna do another swag giveaway. So in order for you to qualify, you got to do three things. One you're subbed here, circles off on YouTube. Number two leave us a comment down below. Any comment Could be I'm here for the swag, could be something about the show. Leave us a comment. Number three we're going to change it up. Go sub to HitTheBooks on YouTube as well. So sub here, circles off, sub to HitTheBooks and leave us a comment down below and you're automatically eligible to win a swag bag which we will send you out. 

01:02:09
All right, moving along here, I see in the rundown it's Fezzik's horror take. I think it was meant to be takes because there were so many bad ones this week. We were just getting tagged nonstop. Hashtag circle back. I don't even know where I want to start on these, but there's, I'd say, a handful of tweets that caught our attention. First one was if you have a handicapper that gives out plays that are never available at his release at books like Circa, bookmaker, pinnacle, betonline, westgate, then it is time to find a new handicapper. 

01:02:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I just like how he snuck Westgate in there no one associates. Westgate with. Betonline. 

01:02:47 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Penny Bookmaker and Circa. It's true, he's got to have some friend, that's in yeah, yeah, yeah. 

01:02:53 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Or, like Westgate's good to him, good comps, yeah, yeah. 

01:02:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But you know, when we We've talked about Fezzik many times before. I almost don't even want to include these at this point, because I mean, listen, you want to see him, we're going to talk about them. 

01:03:12 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
But he does this right, he does this. Yeah, that's the rub. 

01:03:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
So, like the self-awareness is at an all-time low right like. And then like. There was a tweet earlier in the week where he's like well, 95 of my plays include three books. It's like. That's not a badge of honor, dude, why not 100? Like 95. Who can like? Stop with the live lines at DraftKings. Stop with the South Point CFL overnights. Like, done. So that one is definitely triggering. 

01:03:33
This one, though, was the one that I think is a larger talking point for me, where he says 40-year-old pros who have been grinding slash betting pros for a decade, look to get 53.5% bets and make a living Magically in quotations. 24-year-olds that just entered the arena have all the answers and will make you tons of money because they are so good at this. Laughing my ass off, and the one the reason that this caught my attention um, not because he went had this back and forth with china. China talked about 24 year olds that are good at this, aren't selling picks, they're hitting 55 on sides and totals are hitting low sixties on props. Steve responds no, 44 year old can hit 55% playing sides, totals on game day with any volume. 

01:04:19
China never mentioned game day. I don't know why he just included game day there, but there's this back and forth and I think that, like from an educational point of view for as a better, I used to be very close mindedminded as well. I always used to think like my approach was the way of doing things and this and that, and over time I become more and more open-minded and nowadays I do see a lot of people that are very successful at a young age at betting, like way more than I I did. I thought I saw up. I think there's more educational material out there. 

01:04:52 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
And legalization. 

01:04:54 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Legalization. You got a lot of that stuff right. I hate the whole. Like experience matters, in my opinion, in betting, but it's not the be all and end. All the conversations that are like age exclusive are so mind-numbingly dumb. Like Flop is a mutual connection of ours, chris, right. Like very, you're much younger than me, kirk. Like you're born a decade after me as well, and like really highly successful better. Like the age commentary drives me nuts. 

01:05:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, well, I think betting is a unique thing where, like, experience obviously helps a lot, but also, like Fezzik is really stuck in his old ways versus when you're younger, and also especially if you have really good technical skills coming right out of school, like you can be a lot better than someone who has been doing it for a long time but doesn't have those technical skills. Also, was this a shot at you? Aren't bothering printing 55% money and going to Sloan instead? 

01:05:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Oh, I didn't even see that Meanwhile, the 30 to 50 plus guys with 30 years of winning experience aren't bothering, printing 55% money and going to Sloan. 

01:05:59 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, it might be. 

01:06:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean, like I think all the tweets are indirectly like at someone nowadays, whether it was Spanky or myself or whatever. By the way, I went to I didn't go to sloan the conference, I just went to boston for like a betters meetup with other people there, because you know what I like to meet up with friends every now and then and like meet new betters in the space. To me, honestly, the networking oftentimes is more valuable than being at home at my desk for, like you know stuff I'm like I'm not betting football now, it's basically hockey that's done in like pretty much automated, which I worked hard towards as well. Anyways, we're getting off topic, but but I definitely feel like this. 

01:06:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't think it was personally directed to me, because it seemed like he was more talking about touts and I'm 27, not 24. 

01:06:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I I would but if I had to surmise who this was actually directed at, I would say that when he references someone who's like 24 years old, it's directed at Judah. 

01:06:53 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Fortgang. Yeah, he fucking hates Judah Fortgang, but as someone who could fit this description. I don't know about other 40 year olds, but I would personally guarantee I'm a better better than Fezzik, despite his experience and my age. I would bet a lot of money that I am. 

01:07:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think also a big thing for me with, like the the new age of betters, new wave younger betters is I. I'm also more old school, like. I started betting when I was 16, so that's that's 22 years I've been betting in some capacity and you do very much get stuck in your ways over time right like I was late to the sgp party, that a lot of people were early to all. 

01:07:33
The people that were early to that for me were people that are younger than me, like johnny um, judah fort gang, right like um. Even. Like using sgps to mass closing line value and stuff like that, like concepts like that. I I consider myself to be smart, but like that's not stuff that I was thinking about personally. It was younger people betting that stuff that opened up my eyes to it. So I I personally just think that I I hate the experience talk. I do think experience matters. I think younger people you know they will, they will make some mistakes now and then that maybe others that are older have made and learned lessons from. But that's not to say you can't learn stuff from the younger crowd. In fact, I would say I pretty much exclusively want to learn from the younger crowd nowadays because, uh, I think there's like more innovation in, yeah, from how? 

01:08:25 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
many like 50 plus year old people. Do you know that are still having success in the space? 

01:08:33 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well Rath. 

01:08:36 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I knew it was coming. I knew it was coming. I would say for me, like most of the 50-plus-year-old bettors that I know are honestly retired- that's right. 

01:08:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You either made it and you're out or you're Steve Fezik out. 

01:08:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, or you're steve fessick, I. I I'm just saying like I. I just hate. I hate the like speaking in absolutes when it comes to stuff. It's like no 24 year old can do this. Nobody's doing this like you have to be at. I'm not at my desk 24 7 because I choose not to be at my desk, because I've worked towards automating stuff, so I don't have to be at my desk and I can still earn. That's a conscious choice I make. Sometimes I'm in the mood to bet and I'll bet a lot. Sometimes I'm not. 

01:09:25
Steve might want to bet live bet every day. That's his prerogative. Good for you. If you're happy, you're earning, you're doing it, go for it. Every better is different. This was the final shot. See what I'm saying. This tweet right here 8-1 basketball run. Really good live betting day. I rarely give these to clients. They're not liquid and not widely available. Yet he still does. The great Todd Wischnev rolled 14-1 live betting yesterday from noon on after a 7-9 start. But if he was good at this, he would be a billionaire, according to some content providers. So this is a direct shot at Johnny. 

01:09:58 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, I was going to say some content providers we may know. 

01:10:00 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, this was when me and Johnny interviewed Fezzik and Johnny was just like you know, fezz, if you have the edge you're saying you have and your bankroll is growing over time, like you would be a billionaire by now and some tongue-in-cheek for sure. But his point, completely taking out a context, was you'd be much more successful right now instead of having to grind at your age, instead of having to care that the donut at starbucks is eight dollars now instead of seven thirty exactly right, but the sub tweeting is what's really getting me. 

01:10:32
I think that's why I think people are starting to pick up on that. That's why it's constantly. We're getting time to circle back here and there. 

01:10:39 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And wasn't this Todd? Wasn't he the guy in like the Showtime series that was like the losing better in the book. Do they do stuff? Do they do content together? 

01:10:52 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Or like the book, do they do stuff? Do they do content together? Or like, why I don't? I? I see, I don't know todd wishnev, um, I don't know other than watching him on that showtime series with crack and kelly in vegas and vegas dave I, I don't know anything about him. I I'm not going to say anything about him because I don't know. I think I've seen him on, maybe um a numbers game with gil alexander before once or twice, but I don't know. I think they're just probably buddies at this point and they they hang out together as well you know, I guess I don't. 

01:11:16 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I mean this is it's just like an injection in this tweet from fez. That's another like, where are you like? He's just in space of like what. What does that have to do with anything? 

01:11:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
because he wanted to insert his joke about the billionaire content creators. And todd went on a a great run so he had to tag him in the tweet. That's why At least it's Todd now, it's not Hitman getting tagged every tweet, yeah, yeah. 

01:11:37 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I felt it for Hitman, yeah, yeah. 

01:11:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I know he definitely doesn't like that stuff, but yeah, Anyways, we move on oh here we go, here we go. Okay, elf tweets out. All right, amanda vance, let's be honest, the people were not satisfied with the spaces. We need to run it back no shit. 

01:11:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
She came in and promoted herself for 20 minutes and it fucks right off hey of course here's my offer. 

01:11:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We do in other spaces, but this time you stay and answer questions. I'll even do one in person, if you're down. This prompted amanda to record a video. Uh, inviting elf out to, I believe, miami. It was like for a hockey game. 

01:12:16
I basically said but I want good seats, I want good tickets and Elf is taking her up on that offer. So in a couple weeks he's heading down. They're going to do a live Spaces together, apparently, something along those lines. Um, you know, so funny I I this tweet which was amanda vance tweeting damn elf, you got some competition and posting all these people's dms. Have good seats to penns panthers. If you care to partake, I'll get you a ticket to penns game in tampa. The simp army was out in full effect. 

01:12:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is unbelievable. 

01:12:52 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I love how she doxed them Not doxed, but she posted their names as well. Yeah, most of you would have cropped that the guy's probably married. 

01:13:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean Steven Squibbs. I'm just looking at these now. Joined July 2011. 

01:13:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
17 followers. 

01:13:08 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's a tough one. This guy looks like Kevin Baker's Australian Open 24, French Open 24. 

01:13:14 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This guy might be better than MPB, the best bettor in the world. No wonder he's got the money to take it up. 

01:13:17 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I haven't realized this. There's 13 followers, 17 followers, 19 followers. 

01:13:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Then 1.1K. Kevin Baker's got 1.1K. Tough look for Kevin Baker. 

01:13:26 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm surprised, dr Parley Builder doesn't have more than 13 followers. 

01:13:30 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Yeah, April 2024 as well. 

01:13:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, that's a burner account for sure. 

01:13:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
This is an auto-delete your account for me If you get doxxed like this there is nothing more embarrassing than this. 

01:13:43 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It won't lose anything. I mean, it'll only get 22 followers. 

01:13:46 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, right, just start over. 

01:13:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Probably 18 of them are bots from Elon's army. 

01:13:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, El's a good kid. I met him in Boston this week, came out a couple nights with us. Had a really good time with him. With that said, in terms of crossovers that I care about, Elf and Amanda Vance is a zero. 

01:14:04 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Why is Elf centered in on? Why did he land on Amanda Vance here? Maybe because she was the one that was taking him up on this actual offer to do some crossover? I don't know what he's getting. I mean, maybe he's getting a little bit of. 

01:14:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Do you think he's? 

01:14:21 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I think we know exactly what he wants to be getting Is that what he's actually trying to get out of this. 

01:14:26 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Amanda Vance is playing these guys like an absolute fiddle. 

01:14:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
She's absolutely playing them. 

01:14:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I would say that it's definitely a non-zero percent chance that Elf thinks he's going to bang a bad defense. I'm telling you what it. 

01:14:40 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Non-zero, it's a hundred percent chance. I haven't talked to him about it. 

01:14:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm not putting words that he said to me. 

01:14:46 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Isn't she? She's more like me. And Rob's age Is she? I mean, if, how old is she? She's more like me and Rob's age, is she? 

01:14:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, you think, I mean, if she's our age, she's looking really really good. 

01:14:55 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Okay, also Jeff glazing her up on the last episode of this, talking about like made it seem like she's like a Playboy model. I'm sorry, I'm not. You're not into Amanda. 

01:15:05 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I'm not seeing it. 

01:15:06 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Maybe it's just because of the way. 

01:15:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I think she's pretty good looking. I'm not saying she's bad looking, but I just find her annoying, so like you know, when there's like a really hot chick and like they have like a good personality that you can vibe with. Like. To me those are Like I find her really annoying. 

01:15:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, I mean because she was going after Zil, like I think your tweet that we'll bring up is spot on, but like she absolutely trolled Nadeau, she's playing Elf like a fiddle, Like she's pretty smart. 

01:15:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's the yeah that's maybe why it's, but you see, I think your perspective is that she's going after like characters that you don't like and you want to see get roasted. No, I like Nadeau and I like Elf. Oh, you like Nadeau? Yeah, that's a really weird one for you. You hate Rass, but you love Nadeau. 

01:15:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Nadeau to me is funny. I don't know much about him but I don't have any problems with Elf or Nadeau, but it's pretty obvious that she has them in their pocket or in her pocket did you see? 

01:16:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
nadeau said he could run an eight and a half minute mile. 

01:16:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I did see that I know, I know this isn't on the rundown? 

01:16:14 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
no fucking way, he's running eight and a half. 

01:16:16 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's worse than when you said you could do 150. 

01:16:19 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It was 250, 250 in 15 minutes yeah yeah, it was I came up a little short. I bet against you that. Yeah, I know, I know you did clean up that I did clean up. 

01:16:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That was a. Really that was a. That was really good. We could do nothing during COVID times other than bet on people doing push-ups online by the way she's either 29 or 30. 

01:16:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Okay, Okay, yeah, so in between Elf's like 24? About the average of everyone in here, I think. 

01:16:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Elf's. I think in that age as well, he's really going down the path of like engagement at all costs. Yeah, yeah, like he. You know, I thought of elf at first because years ago I want to say maybe two years ago I saw like some live streams of him, arby right, I think johnny showed them to me. He's like this guy, like why is he doing this publicly? 

01:17:02 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
like I remember, I think, trolling him on one of those like two years ago. Yeah, probably so fucking stupid. Yeah, like why? 

01:17:07 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
would you? Why would you be putting? But, like, I do think that even that, like that was the first sign of the engagement, matters as much as the betting. Now, I actually think he's just going to, I think he's going to go down the path of, like content creator, yeah, engagement farmer. 

01:17:22 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah. 

01:17:23 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Rather than better, I agree. 

01:17:23 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Doesn't it seem that way? 

01:17:25 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
100% oh yeah, he's very good at it. 

01:17:27 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
He is. He's like pretty like lightning in a bottle of like. There's something about him that like him or hate him, people like want to follow him. 

01:17:35 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Low key, low key. Low key, that's what he says all the time I cannot get. I do not understand Gen Z terminology. Yeah. 

01:17:42 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
When you did that on the Circle episode, when it was like the rapid fire, he used like the same three words for every single person Low, key, low key, yeah, yeah, yeah, low key. 

01:17:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But when, when I I'm sorry. And again another tangent when I say something to someone like growing up, somebody be like okay, then it changed over time to like okay, you just like get, get rid of it. Now it's bad. 

01:18:05 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Bad, bad. Now it's bet. 

01:18:06 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Bet, bet, bet, yeah I cannot handle that? 

01:18:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah that. 

01:18:09 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
It really really crushes me when I say something. 

01:18:13 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
They acknowledge it by saying bet, bet. 

01:18:15 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You guys are aging yourself, so much it confused me when it was first coming out and in the sports betting I was like does this person want to bet? 

01:18:24 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like what. What do we bet on? Yeah, yeah, like what. What bet on what? Like what? I think we mutually deal with, um a guy named uh blade yeah, he, but he was using bet to me on telegram all the time. I had no fucking clue what he's talking about. 

01:18:39
I thought it was like another chat group for a while it wasn't until I heard jason, of all people, takes by jay, say, and now, now on elf anyways, that's. That's deviating. Uh, quite a bit. But um, kanish had, in my opinion, one of the tweets of the week here on this entire situation, which was majority of the Twitter capper. Bimbos just seem stupid, slash oblivious, but are likely nice people who are just using their assets to make a career, et cetera. Vance actually seems like an awful person, fully aware of the grift and scam she's perpetuating. So of course Elf wants to marry her. 

01:19:13 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's so accurate, man, how did he land Like if he was doing this with Taylor Mathis who's you know, I don't think she's got a, even with some of the past accusations. I don't think she's got really like a negative or a devious bone in her body there and it would seem like that'd be more of a. I think Amanda Vance is as calculated as it comes. 

01:19:35 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I do believe that. 

01:19:36 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And it's like seeing this as a little bit of an opportunity to get into some Gen Z, to get into more of the gambling Twitter and just solely for the point of like extracting it from people in the space. 

01:19:49 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Getting as much attention as many subs as possible? 

01:19:51 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yes, and regardless of what she has to do to get that. I'm with you, I'm totally with you. 

01:20:01 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I view this Elf-Vance beat-up as just a way for each to build it's a collab. 

01:20:07 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Let's call it a word for what it is. 

01:20:09 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
We fucking hate collabs, man, and it's basically a collab let's call it a word for what it is. 

01:20:11 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
We fucking hate collabs, man, and it's basically a collab. 

01:20:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's happening if Elf was actually my son, not just my gambling twitter son. 

01:20:16
I would tell her to stay, tell him to stay as far away from his man to fans there's he's had other women on the spaces that this, I think, would have made a lot more sense and been more, I don't know, been more accepted or been something that, like you could have actually seen, like look forward to when she's on, like I hate when she's saying, like the way she comes off and the way she's like pulling, like she jumped in the spaces and jumped out, it's all a, it's a bit. She knows that the grift like this is not an innocent grift. This is like step-by-step. 

01:20:53 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
She knows very well what she's doing. So on the Sunday night spaces, zilbo was there collecting his money and Amanda Vance came in and she started going at it with him. And Zilbo's whole thing which I believe to be true is that he's like I don't want pretenders in the space Like somebody is that? He's like I don't want pretenders in the space Like somebody asked him about crabs bets right. And he's like I don't like people who claim that they're winners when they're not. She jumped in and she said you know, does it occur to you? Some people are just looking for engagement and they put a lot of work into what they're doing. And then I jumped in and said you're moving the goalposts here. This is not about it. He's upset at people who claim to be winners that are not winners. And I'm, like you know, kind of trying to get her to respond to that, but she was not really. Yeah, she's not going for it. 

01:21:37 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
So to your point, I, I, I, I do feel that she is an awful person fully aware of the but, but when I do when zilber gets upset about people portraying themselves as winners when they're not winners I was thinking the exact same thing are you kidding me? 

01:21:51 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
the guys had a documented record for the last 10 years. 

01:21:54 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I don't know when rob fell in love with philbert, but it's a wild development. 

01:21:59 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I just he, he tweet up. I tweet at him. I'm like listen, if you're winning better, you're probably not buying points, or I guess he's buying point, and he told me it was on a rare occasion. I've not seen one bet that doesn't have points. 

01:22:13 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Well, I would say, if you're winning better, one, you're not betting $45, and two, you don't have $9.09 in your DraftKings account. 

01:22:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, Listen, I think that in the betting space we sometimes simplify it into good and bad and there's levels to this there's like the pyramid right, and there's like the top of the pyramid is the bettors who just bet, they keep to themselves and they win, like that's, that's the absolute top there's. There's, unfortunately, of that pyramid you know 90 of. 

01:22:46
It is bad if we're classifying it, but there's levels to that Right, totally, and to me, like Zilbert, is a quote unquote bad but harmless. Yeah, that's where I, where I, I put him in there Right, where there's other people who are bad but harmful, bad, and then there's like bad, but like absolute fucking, like worst scumbags on earth, like absolute fucking, like worst scumbags on earth, like cash out, yeah, yeah, like bad, harmful and their piece of shit. 

01:23:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Yeah, and being on top and should be in Guantanamo Bay. Yeah, yeah, spin fluencer. 

01:23:17 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Make a graphic of this pyramid place. 

01:23:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes, we need a pure we need, we need to, we need to this to all the company. 

01:23:31 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It's gotta be like the elf spaces has done one thing it's like made me more empathetic to like your, your medium level picks out right here we're like now, I've seen, that's what I said. No people the first, I feel like I'm jared smith now like yeah, they're in the middle there, you're right, you're right, but like man of the library was the bad guy yeah, yeah, people were fucking like in there. 

01:23:50 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
You know he was're right but like man of the library was the bad guy. Yeah, yeah, people were fucking like in there. You know he was doing his whole like well, you know, you didn't see the color of the moon today and whatever and he's dropped that shtick now and now he's the guy. 

01:24:00 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
That's like acting on behalf of the good yeah, it's really because now I've seen and heard some of like the worst people on earth come into this space and be like, oh my god, like this person. I'd feel better if they were in like a federal prison, as opposed to on this space right now it's like you're a scamming tote, but like you're not threatening to murder. 

01:24:19 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, you're not that bad. 

01:24:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, yeah, whatever he stole a bunch of people's money a couple thousand bucks, yeah you're not in his dm saying I'm gonna chop your your head off. 

01:24:29 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
March 10th 2025,. Rob defends Matt Zilbert and man of the Library in the same episode. 

01:24:34 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
No, no, no, no. Pass it at a million. 

01:24:36 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Oh, man of the Library, parlay Sorry. 

01:24:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Let me make it very clear. I'm not defending man of the Library. My feelings on him are the same as they always were. I'm just saying in the public eye People. I'm just saying in the public eye, people have come around. 

01:24:52 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He's come around, they've come around. No, I'll say it. I thought, in terms of people that would go on the show one of the first episodes that I was actually speaking I was like Elf, don't get involved with this guy. They were talking about going out to Vegas. I was like Elf, I don't think you should do that. Just from some things I've heard, I don't think that's a wise business. Now I'm like, oh well, man of the Library is. I'm like, yeah, he's kind of a you know a little character as opposed to like a yeah. 

01:25:14 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, I think the picture with him in the fedora changed everything. It's the funniest picture I've ever seen. People are like this is the guy we've been mad about the whole time. Yeah. 

01:25:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This guy is, yeah, pre-fedora. Holy fuck you know. He's telling people he's writing a manifesto, yeah holy fuck dude like calm down now, he right now post fedora pick it's. Yeah, he's armed like a fisherman. 

01:25:34 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, yeah, like, like, yeah fisherman okay, we're gonna wrap up your chopping block for this week. These are items that we didn't think we could turn into a full segment of the show, but you guys tagged us so we'll quickly discuss them. Uh, as we go through here, our guy the shipper ship the justice. Uh, he found this, he's gonna be heartbroken. 

01:25:54 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Feinberg's not here this week. Yeah, it's gonna be tough for him. I think you'll skip the episode. 

01:25:58 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Honestly, now that jeff's not here, um, he quote tweeted this, plus ev ohio tweet said would rather end it all than do this all day. What a bleak existence. And it's a guy who's you know. Uh, he found a a parlay five bucks to win 516. Um, no sweat, token applied, right, you know. Plus ev ohio, what a burial this was. I thought I'd say the real bleak existence is hating on people who make money doing what they enjoy while helping others. I agree with him. What now? 

01:26:29
I agree with both of these guys in the sense that I would never want to bet like this I could never envision myself betting like this, however, everyone could bet however the fuck they want to bet Right, and the fact that shipper went out of his way, I think, says so much about who shipper is. 

01:26:47 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Like I like shipper a lot and I wish I could agree with you here, shep, but his tweet it's just this is one you think you agree with, but you leave it inside. You leave this one on the chopping block. Keep it in the draft. What a bleak existence, really got me. 

01:27:03 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This tweet is a tweet that I wouldn't have liked when likes were public, but I liked when, not that likes were public. I love a tweet that I wouldn't have liked when likes were public but I liked when. Now that likes, I love that because, yeah, I, I enjoyed, I got a laugh out of it, I I mean I don't. 

01:27:23
It's if people want to use their, their boost to get some plus ev bets though it's agreed, yeah. Yeah, I mean I can't hate. It's better than using it to bet on some nonsense, I guess, but it doesn't matter. 

01:27:31 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Like everyone can bet, however the fuck they want to bet. I get Shipper's point. He just said it out loud, which he probably shouldn't have done. Like I definitely don't ever want to bet like that. Like, to me that's not a style of betting. I get it's the way that he made it seem like he demeaned it, so much yeah, yeah with with writing like two sentences anyways. 

01:27:49
Um, ben the better is. Uh, I guess he's doing a rebrand for like the 18th time. Join the fade clan. Uh, this guy who actually is using the man of the library fedora pick as his avatar. Time is a flat circle. Uh, yeah, ben the better is on this like rebrand, imagine if you were betting on the opposite side all along the past six months alone. I gotta say I don't. I don't. Ben the better to me is like completely irrelevant. 

01:28:15 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He's washed it's completely over he had his moments yeah he had. 

01:28:19 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
He had his handicapping contest with my tortoise, yeah lini, which he lost he could have vaulted that into something bigger. He just never did. No, and at this point it just looks like a sad, desperate attempt for maybe a pretend you're quitting twitter again. 

01:28:35 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Maybe you'll get a few I'm sure he will. 

01:28:38 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yeah, I think it's done. I think the entire ben, the better stick has completely run its course yeah, he gets no engagement anymore. 

01:28:44 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
No, it just feels like there's way more characters now yeah to care about that are even more, uh, either new or fresh or entertaining than seeing the ben. The better thing, run back for the 12th time and he's got nothing now. 

01:28:57 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
No, no, I think he can revitalize it by going into the spaces and mixing it up I'm shocked. 

01:29:03 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He hasn't been okay, he, he has to go in and on camera too, because people don't actually they don't know who he is. No, no, if he pulls a zilbo, that could be the, that could be the comeback rob, he's gonna be rob. 

01:29:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, I know right. Yeah, he's gonna, it's gonna be rob zilbo ben the better in this show in three months. 

01:29:22 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I gotta tell you I can't envision coming around on ben the better, but I could never have envisioned coming around on zilbo and it's been there. Uh, official watson, this was the guy that spinfluencer was making the the life of a cap for parody video. It wasn't parody, he was just cutting them up, really yeah, real videos uh, good morning. Yesterday I was thrown off of my gambling game by jail. 

01:29:42 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
That should be the end of the tweet. That's the best time of all time. 

01:29:45 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean we don't need any more. That I I was. I saw a few more tweets after him. I think he got picked up for I think it was like possession of some weed. He must be in like an illegal state for weed. 

01:29:57 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I saw this video evidence of him. 

01:29:59 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That's kind of like. The only point I can make on this is like maybe, if you don't want to get picked up for possession, don't put out public videos of you smoking joints in your car while you're driving around town. 

01:30:09 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Probably not a good idea. I would agree with that. That seems like a bad idea. 

01:30:14 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Oh my God. He also claimed he almost got shot After the law pulled the gun on me. 

01:30:18 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
The law, the law. Well, listen. 

01:30:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I don't know, I wasn't there. I haven't seen the body cam footage or anything, but I found it hilarious when I read yesterday I was thrown off my gambling game by jail. Yeah, you just don't read that ever it sucks when that happens. 

01:30:32 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Somebody out there find this body cam footage because I would really love to see this interaction. 

01:30:36 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It'll probably be out on Life of a Capper next episode. 

01:30:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
That body cam footage is going to get released. He's smoking a blunt, making a prize fix. 

01:30:46 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Not listening to the officer because he's trying to get it to myself. Excuse me, sir, can you roll down your window? 

01:30:52 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
Luca's going over tonight. 

01:30:55 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
What else we got here, jacob. Oh man, ian McMillan found this. A guy who sells picks on Dub Club is celebrating getting a VIP offer from a book and everyone in the mentions thinks that's a good thing. Sports betting Twitter is beyond parody at this point, and it was this. Saks Likely, s-a-k-s, likely today, just keeps getting better. Post the VIP offer that he got, which, if you, don't know, Rob. 

01:31:23 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
you've consulted for sports books in the past. 

01:31:25
Yeah, to my understanding these now are quite I'm not going to say a rarity, but it feels like getting one understanding these now are quite I'm not going to say a rarity, but it feels like getting one of these now is from from you here in the industry, like you've got to be a real fucking loser, yeah, to get this stuff now I I honestly don't know how how a lot of these legal books are operating these days and what the vip offers look like for a for a lot of these. 

01:31:48 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
But yeah, I mean generally speaking to get a vip offer for those that don't know you're you a for a lot of these. But yeah, I mean generally speaking, to get a vip offer for those that don't know you're. You're down a lot of money and they want you to bet more into these books or they're making it more lucrative. Some people come, come out and be like, oh, you know, uh, what, if he's like actually a winning better and he's just get using it, he would never publish that, he would never post this publicly if he's a winning, better, he would never publish this publicly. 

01:32:09
If he was a winning bettor, he would never post this publicly. 

01:32:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
And this isn't like a $5 token. He's getting basically a free $500 here to place a $1,000 bet. 

01:32:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I mean his account balance is $14K. I mean it's not bad. 

01:32:24 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
No, it's better than $9.09. 

01:32:28 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I feel like he's not a guy that deposited $1,000 and ran it up to $14,000. 

01:32:32 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
No, no, no, Seems more like a $50,000 guy who ran it down to. He deposited all of his dub club sub money and got it to $14,000. 

01:32:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Now he's railing it, there you go. That's it, man. This is one of the ways this is a really yeah, I did not know that's what this meme was. 

01:32:57
Yeah, yeah, um so obviously this person does not like the fact that home run parlays have hit the timeline and that's why it's posting this. I will say baseball season really agitates me, yeah, uh, not because of the home run parlays, which, which I mean, I don't like those, but when I see like Nerfy and Yerfy, I just want to like. I don't want to go like full shipper and be like what a bleak existence this person has, but you know, it really bothers me the whole. Like Nerfy crew, like Nerfy gang squad up. 

01:33:27
It's like I can't handle that stuff. 

01:33:29 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
It seems like with NBA right now, what's taken off is the first score parlays. Yeah, people love that. Where like that to me is like it's going to shift, as Jeffrey's saying here, of like once baseball season's back, then it'll be the Nerfys and the home runs. But I feel like in this season, specifically with the NBA, it's been who's going to score the first bucket, and then it's like oh, I'm doing Jokic, like Giannis. 

01:34:01 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
And then that gets you, your. That seems to be the Sportsbooks must love when somebody hits one of those, oh yeah. And they get to victory laps on the socials, oh my God. 

01:34:09 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Well, the betters, love them even more because then they get to run their dub club up and it's like look, I'm up 180 units. It's like, well, yeah, you hit one SGP, you've lost everything else and if you keep betting the same way, you're going to be down 180 units in a year. 

01:34:21 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yeah, the thing that hits my timeline. That pisses me off. The Alex Caruso is the perfect example of it, of like this guy has hit the under 25 of 26 games and it's like a guy who hasn't been starting all season, who's now been in the starting lineup averaging 10 minutes, now projected for 35. Those are the ones that really boil my blood. 

01:34:43 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Think about how this is like three years, even four years ago, the this would have been like like, even like a nerfy was kind of like a I don't know. Almost you would call it like a unique derivative bet. This has morphed into now where everyone is doing it's just like what's the next insane SGP that we can come up with to get people absolutely like yoked on. 

01:35:06 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I know, and finally, I think we got one more here. Oh, a couple more, yeah, okay, big Cat has been giving out these college basketball plays. He's on as of the time of this recording. We might mush it by talking about it the old announcer's jinx 16-0, undefeated in March. And the reason that it's a great graphic oh the graphic. 

01:35:30
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, it's a premium graphic. I love big cat. I was gonna throw. I mean, people who've watched this show already they know that of all the barstool personalities, big cat to me is like three tiers above everyone. I love big cat, but this to me, the way that this I've seen this entire situation play out on twitter this is like the perfect example of like the community building in the sports betting space. It's like big cat's a good guy. We know he doesn't win, but we're riding with him through this. I actually like stuff like this when it happens. I think it's really good for the betting industry, not because people are going to tail and lose their money eventually, but because everybody's collectively rooting for one outcome. I love that. 

01:36:12 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
This feels like now, where, when someone's trying to break the DiMaggio hit streak and they're interviewing him before the game, the ESPN's going to their at-bat. The next pick now the 17 or the 18, gets so much hype now. 

01:36:30 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
It's true. 

01:36:30 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
He's probably got to be feel like GRP and week two or survivor. He's probably feeling it where, like I have to find a way, I actually think he is, though. 

01:36:39 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Yes. 

01:36:39 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I think so. Yes, pressure now, like I just think he really wants to keep the. 

01:36:43 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I do believe that, but I don't feel that he's feeling stressed. 

01:36:47 - Jacob Gramegna (Announcement)
I think he's feeling pressured. I don't think he's stressed, I think he's just I feel like I don't know. 

01:36:49 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
One of those things on like the next twitter spaces nadu calls out big cat for once having a 24 game losing streak. 

01:36:55 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
I'm calling out you big cat I think the reason people like this is like big cat very openly talks about how much he sucks gambling yeah, so like yeah he's not gonna parlay this into a dub club yeah, and he's a jovial personality like you. 

01:37:08 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
You know, if this was Portnoy, people would be. You know there would not be the same level of like. It's like people are everyone's rooting for him. 

01:37:15 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Yes, yes, if it was Portnoy, people would be rooting against him, but still very into him, totally. 

01:37:20 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
All right, we're going to end the show on. I think a lot of people probably think myself, kirk Kanish, are assholes and they're right about that, but we also have hearts here at this show and I know Kanish has been following this World of Isaac account for a long time now, and this was tweeted from the account. Good morning Andy, who passed away peacefully this morning beside his loving family. We thank you all for your support and love over the years. This was a genuine space of laughter and kindness. Please carry this spirit on in honor of andy, as always, fatterday, forever and ftb. I know this guy meant a lot to like the detroit scene. Yeah, can you give a little background story here? 

01:38:03 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
I'm glad you know I never show prep and I'm glad I looked at it in advance so I didn didn't tear up here on the show for the first appearance. But he was a battle canceled since 2006. So I mean, it's 20 years Was a big like. Fatter day was his thing. He would go out and do like some content with him, eating something like donuts, pizza, that type of thing Genuinely like one of those people you would hard press to have anybody say a bad word about him. 

01:38:34
Um, one of the only we, so we would kind of go every once in a while like comment on each other's tweets. We dm a little bit. He actually asked me to do, uh, some content in 2021 for a woodward sports next, which is kind of a local detroit affiliate, um, and I I honestly I had thought about it, but by the time that we had gotten anything, really, um, his health kind of made him kind of have to step back from that and wasn't able to do it. One of the the I really wish, uh, one of those things that could have been able to, to get off the ground um and take part in, and so I've seen governor whitmer, governor of michigan's, even honored him and there's like going to be a yearly, uh, fatter day going forward in michigan. Um, just a great. It bothers me in life that someone like this uh, you know like dies young, and there's other people out there that you know don't. So, yeah, just great dude. Thank you, Jacob, for including this. 

01:39:33 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Fuck them Bears. Right, that was him. Yeah, fuck the. 

01:39:35 - Joey Knish (Co-host)
Bears was always his thing and yeah, he was just a diehard local Detroit sports fan and a great guy who would have had a very I mean he did some stuff in the content space for a while would have had, I think, an even bigger career had it not been obviously cut short with what he'd been dealing with for a while there was someone who passed away, I think last year, that me and you used to I know exactly who you're talking about. 

01:40:02 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
I want to say like herno yeah, herno, yeah, yeah, yeah something like that well, I didn't know for the vast majority of his life. I I talked to him for like the last three months over Twitter as well. Yeah, I hate to see stuff like that, but there are a lot of good people in the space and you know we talk about the negative a lot on this show and we are, you know, by nature. I think us three slant towards the negative, but I know that Sky meant a lot to you and the city of Detroit, state of Michigan as well. So rest in peace to Andy, and just wanted to give you the opportunity to talk that a little bit because I've seen you interact with them before. 

01:40:36
That's going to be it for Circle Back this week. Don't even know who's in the chairs next week. Never know really, we just kind of plan it last minute. But if you did enjoy the show, make sure you do smash that like button down below, make sure you're subbed here on Circle Back Circle's off, excuse me. And of course, make sure you leave us some comments. We review them every single week. I cut a promo for Mike Vivian last week Showed it to his wife. 

01:41:01
No, didn't get him in the bag. 

01:41:03 - Kirk Evans (Co-host)
Didn't get him in the bag. 

01:41:03 - Rob Pizzola (Host)
Did not seem to be very interested. So tough one for Mike Vivian. Tough one One day I'll film, but I mean I guess I did those with cameo back in the day. But anyways, uh, I digress, we move on. Thank you very much for tuning in. Catch you back here later on in the week on circle.